Debates of Oct. 6th, 1998

Apec Summit

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this story is getting more outrageous by the minute every time he opens his mouth.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Edmonton North.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, this story is getting more outrageous every time the minister opens his mouth. The commission is now saying that it is worried about public trust in this whole instance. I am sure the Solicitor General is the only person in the country who happens to believe his own story.

The commission is in doubt. The damage has been done. The gig is up. When will he resign?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, this process needs to work and it cannot be sabotaged by the innuendo of members opposite.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the solicitor general could not remember who he talked with on the flight between Ottawa and Fredericton or what they spoke about. He could not even remember whether the person was a man or a woman.

But this morning, miracle of miracles, he remembered everything. He was speaking to a longtime Liberal friend.

How can the Prime Minister put his trust in a solicitor whose memory is so weak and whose integrity is based solely on the vague testimony of a Liberal partisan?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Solicitor General made a statement to the House this morning. He tabled a letter from the person on the trip with him. I think that it fully explains the situation.

The facts speak for themselves. I am surprised. Members will have to be careful, because tomorrow there will be people eavesdropping behind every door.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, every time a scandal looms, the Prime Minister uses the same scenario. Here again, he is doing so with the APEC story.

First, the Prime Minister denies the evidence. Second, he finds a political official, sometimes the Minister of Canadian Heritage, or the former Minister of National Defence. Third, he orders an investigation to clear himself.

My question is simply this: When will he produce a letter of good behaviour from the ethics commissioner? That is all that is lacking in the habitual scenario.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing the government wants more than for the commission of inquiry to do its job as quickly as possible.

A complaint was lodged about police behaviour, and we want to find out the truth. Once the truth is known, we will act objectively.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general is clearly in a very difficult situation, with not just his credibility, but also his job, at stake.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Will he admit that not only is the solicitor general in a very difficult situation, but that so is he, because his credibility and his job are hanging by a thread, and that thread is the testimony of a Liberal Party member and a friend of the minister?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, one year and four months ago, we were elected to office. Our mandate is very clear.

The thread is a pretty hefty one; we hold more seats than any of the opposition parties.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Prime Minister not think he is asking Frederick D. Toole to shoulder quite a load, when Mr. Toole, good Liberal that he is, realizes that his testimony alone could make or break the government?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois does not have much of a point.

We are merely saying that we want the commission to be able to begin its work. In fact, it did so yesterday, and we hope that the testimony will be heard.

All those asked to testify went and volunteered to be present. I personally am not in the least worried, because I know very well that everything is done to respect international conventions, which require that the safety—

[The Speaker]

I am sorry to have to interrupt the Right Hon. Prime Minister but the leader of the New Democratic Party now has the floor.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also to the Prime Minister. The solicitor general clearly failed to maintain the impartiality required of him when he stated: “Four to five Mounties overreacted for five minutes. I think it was excessive”.

Canadians recognize the solicitor general's remarks as prejudicial and inappropriate. When will the Prime Minister do the same and demand the resignation of the solicitor general?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the NDP first claimed in this House that Gail Sparrow saw me giving orders, yet she failed to apologize when Mrs. Sparrow later admitted she could not hear what I was saying. Then the leader of the NDP charged that one of my staff said that he had shredded documents, yet she failed to apologize when the commission counsel refuted that claim. Then she said that one of my special advisers phoned UBC president Martha Piper to intervene in a matter related to security, yet the leader of the NDP—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, even the solicitor general in this morning's carefully worded statement did not deny that he had made these prejudicial comments. In fact his failure to recognize that his inappropriate remarks are prejudicial, that they are prejudicing the inquiry, is further evidence that he cannot do his job. The Prime Minister has no choice but to demand his resignation. Why will the Prime Minister not do that?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to do so because I am watching the leader of the NDP once again raising baseless allegations, based on selective eavesdropping by one of her members, for which she should once again apologize. I thought the leader of the NDP had greater ambition than to become the Linda Tripp of Canada.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, this government has a record of firing people who are competent and who do their jobs with independence and integrity. It had the chief actuary of the Canada pension plan fired because he refused to manipulate information on the CPP. It fired the chair of the fisheries committee because his committee told the truth. The chair of the foreign affairs committee was next.

The solicitor general proved his incompetence when he shared his observations about the outcome of an ongoing investigation into the APEC affair. Surely the Prime Minister must for once fire the—

[The Speaker]

The hon. solicitor general.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said this morning, I said nothing that would interfere with the process of the PCC or with the outcome. That was substantiated by the person with whom I was having a private conversation on the plane.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, is it not odd that the Solicitor General can remember what he said yesterday when yesterday he could not remember what he said the day before?

The solicitor general was overheard prejudging the outcome of the APEC investigation. He denied such prejudgment when asked in this House. Then outside the House yesterday he claimed that he could not remember anything. Today the Solicitor General admits that he had a conversation about APEC with a personal friend which he should not have had. How can the Prime Minister allow the Solicitor General to remain in his position and still ensure the integrity of the APEC investigation?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if we want to have an inquiry we should let the inquiry be conducted by the people. The inquiry started yesterday. Let them do their work.

If it is the only thing the member wants to talk about, then we have no objections because we know the government has done nothing wrong. The police discharged its responsibilities as it was its duty to do. If there was something wrong the commission will find out.

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning the chairman of the Public Complaints Commission said that comments attributed to the Solicitor General have hurt the public trust in the Public Complaints Commission.

My question is to the Prime Minister. His own Solicitor General said on September 21 “We have to protect the integrity of that investigation to get to the truth”.

With the feeling in the Public Complaints Commission that their trust has been affected, will the Prime Minister ask the Solicitor General to resign until this matter is over?