Debates of Dec. 8th, 1998

Social Union

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister of Canada did not say that the Premier of Quebec was acting in bad faith. He said that he hoped he would act in good faith.

But if you want us to list all the instances where the Premier of Quebec accused the Prime Minister of acting in bad faith, it will take us all afternoon.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is all this finger pointing how constitutional negotiations are conducted in Canada?

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

They are cry babies.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

How can the minister and the Prime Minister question the good faith of the Premier of Quebec when the Prime Minister of Canada just showed his bad faith on the issue by announcing on his own, unilaterally and without any consultation, a youth strategy that really concerns the provinces?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is not unusual for one level of government to be rightly or wrongly under the impression that it was not sufficiently consulted by the other.

That is why negotiations are under way regarding the Canadian social union. One area we want to improve is the two way consultation process. This is under negotiation, and we hope to improve matters.

If the Premier of Quebec is indeed acting in good faith, as we hope he is, I guess he will agree with the other premiers that there is currently a basis for negotiations and will be willing to negotiate with a great deal of flexibility and openness.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, publicly funded MRI scanners in Ontario are being used on dogs while the sick sometimes wait six months. Federal and provincial cutbacks force hospitals to moonlight by selling their MRI services to veterinarians. If your dog needs a scan no problem; 48 hours fix you right up. If your child needs a scan it may take a lot longer.

If the health minister disagrees with these practices, what is he doing about it?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the New Democratic Party should be aware that the decision on how such scans are used or financed is a matter for provincial governments.

The leader of the New Democratic Party should also be aware that the provincial government in Ontario has cut back four times through inappropriate tax cuts, four times the amount reduced through reductions to transfer payments. It is a decision of the Ontario government. It is a choice by the Harris government in Ontario of its priorities that has resulted in this regrettable situation.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister just loves to blame the provinces, but he knows that the $6 billion in Liberal cuts deprived the federal government of the moral authority to even criticize provincial governments, let alone demand accountability.

The minister claims that his government supports the five principles of medicare. Could he explain to the House which of these medicare principles dictates that a dog owner with cash takes priority over a citizen in need of health care?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the member will have to take this matter up with the Premier of Ontario. It is the Premier of Ontario, the Tory Premier of Ontario, and his NDP predecessor who made their choices about how health care would be delivered in the province of Ontario.

As much as we might deplore the choice by the Tory Government of Ontario to prefer tax cuts for those who least need it over health care for Ontarians, it is a matter to take up with the Premier of Ontario.

The Economy

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in 1993 when the government took office the Canadian dollar was at 75.5 cents U.S. Since then the dollar has dropped 14%, dropping 9% over the last eight months and hitting record lows last summer.

When the dollar drops so does the standard of living of Canadians. In fact in the third quarter of this year there has been a 3.5% increase in the cost of living of Canadians over the same period last year. As the dollar drops we are seeing Canadians suffer.

Will the minister explain to Canadians why the dollar has gone into a free fall under his leadership?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, in 1993 the unemployment rate in the country was 11.5%. Today it is 8%. In 1993 there were 1.5 million fewer Canadians employed. In 1993 our productivity rate was below that of the United States. Today it is above that of the United States. In 1993 our interest rates were 350 basis points above those of the United States. Today our long term rate is the lowest rate—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Kings—Hants.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the minister heard my question. My question was about the dollar and the fact is that our dollar was bigger than his dollar. While the minister engages in dollar envy, Canadians are suffering. The fact is—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Kings—Hants.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this is no time for the minister to engage in dollar envy. When it comes to the Canadian dollar and standards of living, size does matter. Canadians are suffering because this minister refuses to commit to lower taxes and better productivity standards. He is also refusing to commit to firm debt reduction targets.

The low dollar punishes poorest Canadians the worst because poorer Canadians pay out more of their money for food, goods and services.

Is the minister ashamed of being the author of a low dollar policy that is a de facto tax on the poorest of Canadians?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the only thing the Tories had bigger was the deficit.

If we compare the country today to what it was like in 1993 when we took office, one only had to be minister of finance for three weeks to have that first meeting down at the IMF. We had a country that had not lived up to one decent projection in eight years. We had a country whose currency was under attack. We had a country where interest rates were climbing.

Today we have the strongest balance sheet—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Edmonton North.

Apec Inquiry

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this government says that it cannot do anything about administering the last rites to the APEC inquiry. The minister keeps saying let it do its job. It is absolutely dysfunctional.

This House, on the other hand, can do anything necessary to get to the truth of any problem in Canada. This is the highest court in the land and we can do something about it.

Let me just ask who all is in favour of shutting down this inquiry and opening up a full judicial independent inquiry?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the President of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association told CBC Radio: “The B.C. Civil Liberties Association is a complainant in this hearing and we believe that the public complaints commission is the right forum to hear our complaints”.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a nice try, but that forum is a defunct forum. It is not operating right now. It has been completely castrated in large respect by this government.

I would like it acknowledged that the RCMP say it is dead, the students say it is dead and the lawyers say it is dead. The former solicitor general has resigned, the head of the panel has resigned and the head of the commission is in hiding.

Why will we not get a real inquiry to find the real story and the real truth behind this?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the president of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association said: “I think it is important to put on record that a judicial inquiry would be subject to the same kinds of complaints and the same kinds of delays. We want our complaint heard in front of the public complaints commission because we believe it is important in a democracy that there be an effective mechanism for civilian oversight that is arm's length from both the RCMP and the government”.

I rest my case.

National Home Care Program

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on July 10, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs declared to the Canadian press that “In the case of the home care program, we are hoping for an agreement but we will not proceed without the provinces' agreement. We cannot do it without them; it would not be a good program”.

In light of this statement, what does the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs have to say to his Prime Minister who has, from all appearances, prepared his home care program already, on his own, and announced the details to Mr. Klein while in Alberta yesterday?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has a good imagination.

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the minister does not have the right answers, that is the kind of responses we get.

If he wants to show some consistency, ought the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs not to start by convincing the Prime Minister to negotiate the agreement on social union, and to address the home care issue with the premiers within the framework of the social union only after that?