Debates of Dec. 8th, 1998

National Home Care Program

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my previous words. The hon. member has no imagination.

Canada Pension Plan

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this Christmas Canadians were supposed to get a $350 gift under the tree from the EI fund, but the finance minister decided he was going to keep $290 of that and give Canadians a $58 lump of coal.

Now with his CPP tax hike on January 1 he is even going to take back the lump of coal and the stocking along with it. Why is this finance minister so intent on scrooging Canadians?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member better get a new writer. The basic issue is the future of the Canada pension plan. The Reform Party does not believe in the Canada pension plan. The Liberal party does believe in the Canada pension plan.

More important, Canadians overwhelmingly believe in the Canada pension plan. They want it preserved. They want it there for themselves, for their children, for the generations to come, and it will be there because this government will make sure it is there.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the finance minister believes so dearly in the Canada pension plan, I wonder why he fired the independent actuary of the plan. I wonder how many actuaries he will fire before he gets the number he wants.

What is the real rate for the Canada pension plan? Is it 11%, 12%, 13%?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the real question is what would happen to those thousands and thousands of pensioners who would have to suffer the $3.5 billion cut in old age pensions that the Reform Party has put forth as part of its program. What would happen to those hundreds of thousands of Canadians if they did not have a Canada pension plan available to them and were forced to rely on themselves, those who are unable to save for their old age retirement?

What would happen to those Canadians who are entitled to believe that if they work hard all their lives they are entitled to a decent retirement? Those are the people we are speaking for.

Child Poverty

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the number of Canadian children living in poverty is constantly increasing. Yet, what is the government talking about in the House, just before the Christmas recess? About reducing taxes for the rich, subsidizing sports tycoons and paying golf club memberships for officials in the Business Development Bank of Canada. There is nothing in there for the poor.

What should poor children and their parents think when they see that the government finds it perfectly normal that the Business Development Bank of Canada would pay $220,000 to subsidize golf club memberships for its officials, when they are not getting anything?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, certainly the member has not been paying attention over the last couple of years, as we have been preoccupied with poverty on this side of the House and have delivered the national children's benefit which will put $1.7 billion into the hands of poor families. That is on top of the $5.1 billion we already spend on that group.

We also think the best way is to get people back to work. That is the best solution to poverty and we have introduced many programs such as the transitional jobs fund and the youth employment strategy in order to accomplish that.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is for the Minister of Finance, this time.

There are children living in poverty because there are parents living in poverty. Which solution is best to help them: to lower the taxes paid by the rich by dipping into the employment insurance fund, or to give back to the unemployed the billions of dollars that were taken from them through the cuts made in recent years?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that we must improve the plight of the poorest families. This is why, last year, we took steps to exempt 400,000 Canadians from having to pay taxes.

This is why we have earmarked $1.8 billion for the national child benefit. This is why we increased by $45 million the deduction for child care. This is why the Minister of Human Resources Development and the government invested millions and millions of dollars to help the middle class and the poor in our country.

Forestry

[John Duncan, Reform, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Greenpeace and other groups are running a full page ad in the New York Times today to expand their attack on B.C. forestry jobs. Meanwhile the Liberals spend hundreds of millions of dollars on self-serving advertising every year.

When will the minister take some of that wasted advertising money and spend it on something useful like countering foreign based propaganda that is killing Canadian jobs?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the action in defence of Canadian forestry practices is already well underway.

We have an established program where we bring buyers from around the world to Canada to actually see for themselves what Canadian forestry practices are like; not to rely on misleading advertising in the newspaper but to come here and examine the situation and see for themselves.

Experience has shown that when they come to Canada, when they see our practices as administered primarily by the provinces, in this case British Columbia, they go away with a much different view of Canadian forestry practices. Many of them dramatically change—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Nanaimo—Alberni.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we need action overseas on this issue.

Greenpeace is stepping up its misinformation campaign against forestry jobs with slick and misleading ads in U.S., Japan and Europe. Yet the Liberals are doing nothing to counter this campaign. They are simply hoping that it will go away.

Instead of spending millions on warm and fuzzy Liberal ads within Canada, when will we see hard hitting government ads in foreign newspapers countering Greenpeace's anti-forestry jobs campaign?

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada shares B.C.'s concern about this misinformation.

The Government of Canada through its consulates and with working with the provinces in the industry has been putting forward internationally very strong arguments against this. We will continue to fight on behalf of B.C. forestry workers.

Shipbuilding

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, although shipbuilding is a high-tech industry that creates thousands of well-paid jobs, the federal government has no shipbuilding policy, nothing comparable with that of the United States, for example.

Why does the federal government still have no shipbuilding policy that would encourage Canadian shipowners to have their vessels built here and to create jobs here instead of having them built in China or Korea, as Canada Steamship Lines does?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the preamble to the question is false.

We have an accelerated capital cost allowance of 33.3% on ships built in Canada. We have a 25% tariff on non-NAFTA foreign built ships, a policy of domestic procurement, and financing for commercially viable projects through the Export Development Corporation.

These are components of a strong shipbuilding policy in Canada.

Immigration

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Last week police broke a major sex ring and freed dozens of female sex slaves from brothels across the greater Toronto area. Eight people were arrested and charged with supplying Canadian brothels with as many as 160 Asian women every year.

How can this happen in Canada? How can an organized sex ring import sex slaves into Canada? What is the government doing to prevent this kind of activity from occurring in the future?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, these arrests were the result of an official task force composed of members of police forces and immigration officers.

It is clear that Canada is committed to combat this problem. We must realize that people smuggling and trafficking in human beings, particularly women and children, is an international phenomenon. That is why we are engaged with different countries to combat that problem. Under the leadership of the United Nations we are working right now on an international protocol to get rid of the problem.

Canadian Wheat Board

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on November 20 I asked the minister about voting irregularities in the Canadian Wheat Board elections. The minister defended the process. Now we have learned that the election results were incorrectly tabulated by the government's consulting firm in at least three districts. The entire election results are now suspect.

Will the government order an independent audit immediately?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the independent election co-ordinator, KPMG, is investigating the problems. Additional external professional expertise is being acquired to ensure absolute accuracy, including an audit if that is necessary. The problems will be corrected as rapidly as possible.

It should be noted it is because we have had a very open, public and totally transparent process in the hands of an independent professional that any problems have been quickly identified and the corrective action taken.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, if that was open, I would not want to see it when it was closed.

As a result of the wheat board's lack of transparency we are now experiencing U.S. blockades and threatened loss of trade. American and Canadian farmers are fed up with the secrecy at the wheat board. Once and for all let us cut out the secrecy and get the auditor general to do the books. How many wild oats is the wheat board and this minister trying to bury?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, if anything, the hon. member is very persistent in his mythology.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Wascana, SK]

And the opposition applauds mythology.

Under the new legislation we have adopted, there will be, for the first time ever, a board of directors, two-thirds directly elected by farmers. It will be those directors, including those farmers, who make the determination about what should be released publicly and what in the interests of commercial confidentiality needs to be retained. It will be producers on the board of directors—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Bras d'Or—Cape Breton.