House of Commons Hansard #50 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was provinces.

Topics

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Government Orders

6:10 p.m.

Winnipeg North—St. Paul Manitoba

Liberal

Rey D. Pagtakhan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to speak in support of Bill C-28. This bill very much defines the heart of our country. It concerns the social pillars of our nation, our shared identity, our shared human values and our shared aspirations as Canadians.

I would like to hear from members opposite who debated earlier where they in fact stand in terms of support for the bill. Are they supporting the bill? Is the NDP supporting the bill? I hope so. Is the Reform Party supporting the bill? I hope so. Are the Bloc and the Tories supporting the bill? I hope they all do at the end of the day. They can of course share their concerns with us, but at the end of the debate I hope they can support the shared identity, human values and aspirations of Canadians.

Why is this bill about the soul of our nation? I see two or three major components to this bill. The first one is the Canada health and social transfer which covers the areas of health care, education and social assistance for Canadians. The second one concerns the registered education savings plan which relates to post-secondary education. Third, but not limited to these three, is charitable donations.

Speaking about charitable donations, Canadians should note, and opposition parties should also convey this message, that we are increasing the charitable tax credit from 50% to 75% of net income. My constituents in Winnipeg North—St. Paul, my constituents in Winnipeg North before it was changed, told me that we should increase the tax credit and we are now doing that with this bill. I hope this will be taken very positively by the members on the opposite side.

For the first time we will see that donations to charitable organizations will be the same for all charities and not limited to donations to crown corporations or crown foundations. By increasing the tax credit for charitable donations, we are encouraging even more the Canadian spirit of gift giving among our fellow Canadians and for those in need. This is truly a reflection of our social conscience.

The bill also deals with increasing the contribution to the registered education savings plan from $2,000 to $4,000 a year. This is certainly a big amount that can be earmarked for the education of our youth in our families. For parents who fear that their children for any reason may not want to go to college or university, this bill will ensure that contributions made to registered education savings plans will be transferable to the parents' registered retirement savings plan. Therefore nothing will be lost and savings will be gained.

Although our youth may only represent about 20% to 25% of Canadians, they truly represent 100% of our future. We need to ensure that the cost of education becomes more and more affordable for our youth.

I will move on to the heart of this bill, the Canada health and social transfer. This is a compilation of what used to exist, the transfer payments for health and social assistance. Provinces in the past have told the federal government that they should be allowed more flexibility in the delivery of programs. That is in our Constitution. The delivery of health care and social assistance programs is within the constitutional jurisdiction of the provinces. Out of respect for the provinces and to give them greater flexibility in defining how best to deliver this system, we have allowed for great flexibility with this kind of Canada health and social transfer.

However even as we have allowed this flexibility in terms of the administration of these programs on the part of the provinces, the federal government has seen to it that the five principles of medicare which include portability, universality, comprehensiveness, and non-profit public administration of the system will be maintained. While we have ensured these standards of medicare, we have allowed for flexible federalism.

In addition to the five principles to which I have just alluded, including the principle of accessibility, I remind members opposite that there is another principle in the bill which we may forget, that is no user fees on the part of institutions which may apply them. My colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, has alluded to the fact that when Alberta tried to impose user fees we withheld the transfer payments until the province of Alberta complied with the provisions of the Canada Health Act. Another principle relates to no extra billing on the part of physicians. We have one of the most beautiful health care systems in the world.

We have guaranteed a cash floor of $12.5 billion a year until the year 2003. The government has seen to it that it will be instituted one year earlier, commencing in 1997. In total it will represent six years. Instead of getting only $6 billion over a five year period, actually $7 billion in transfer payments will be made to the provinces for the CHST. This represents the largest single pledge which the government has made to date in terms of our social programs. Certainly it reflects the commitment of the government to the social institutions of the country.

Because our transfer payments include not only the cash floor but equally the tax points, it is important to note that as the economy grows tax transfers will increase. However, because the total transfer ought to have subtracted from the tax transfer, we have ensured in the bill that the cash floor of $12.5 billion will remain constant and will never fall below that level. That is what we call stability. It is stability in terms of the amount and it is stability in terms of the period of funding for the next five to six years.

When we combine the cash floor and the tax transfer, by any simple arithmetic calculation the actual amount—and the opposition parties ought to admit this—will increase to as much as $28.6 billion by the year 2003.

In addition to this program we have also established the health transition fund to pilot health care delivery systems in the country. I hope to see, as per the commitment we made in the 1997 election, the future of home care and pharmacare in Canada.

What we are hearing from the Reform Party is that we need to cut taxes. We also believe in tax relief for Canadians, but our approach is more balanced. When we have a surplus we will see to it that half of it will go toward tax relief, beginning with those Canadians who need tax relief the most, and as well toward debt reduction. In contrast to Reformers and Tories, we would like to spend the other half on social programs and economic investments so we can continue to sustain the economy and develop it even more, and as well to ensure that our vital social programs such as medicare and support for post-secondary education remain.

The NDP, on the other hand, will say that is not enough. I think that we need to inject a dose of realism. It is not enough, but we do not have enough money in the country. There are competing demands on the amount we have as a nation.

Thanks to the government we were able to reduce the deficit from $42 billion in 1993 to what perhaps in the upcoming budget will be almost, if not quite yet, a balanced budget. That is a significant success in restoring order to the fiscal house of the country. That in all humility must merit the commendation of Canadians.

Speaking of fellow Canadians, I would like to add at once that the success of the federal government has not been because we did it alone. In fact, we succeeded because Canadians across the country joined us in the fight to reduce and eliminate the fiscal deficit.

Now that we are nearing that success, now that we are close to balancing the budget, we have to respond to the sentiments of Canadians. We must give back now to social programs and economic investment although not to the point that we go back, as the NDP is suggesting, to an era of deficit spending.

We would like to spend more on post-secondary education. We would like to increase the infrastructure of the country, including not only roads and bridges which we would like to repair and build, not only repair of the sewer system in the country which we would like to do, but actually addressing the challenge of this current century and the new millennium. We must invest in the infrastructure of high tech technology. We must invest in research and development such as increasing the grants to our granting councils, to the Medical Research Council and to the Engineering Research Council, including support for research in the humanities.

In this way we will be able to include the social, the medical and the technical needs of the country that the current century and coming millennium challenge us to do.

I heard remarks during earlier debate that there had been cuts to transfer payments. That we said we did. In fact it was necessary and it was the sacrifice I was speaking to earlier when we had to cut transfer payments.

Not to have done that may have meant at this point we could not be speaking about fiscal surplus. In a sense we took that bold step and for that bold step Canadians gave us a renewal of the mandate. That we cannot dispute.

In contrast to what others say, that the transfer payments have decreased by about 35%, if we include equalization payments which are also part of transfer payments, the amount of decrease was not as much as 35%.

Let us support the bill. Last November or December I consulted with the constituents of Winnipeg North—St. Paul. To them I posed the question very explicitly. I asked whether they would like us to continue as we had pledged, that any surplus would henceforth be spent half for debt reduction and tax relief and the other half for social programs and economic investments. Or, would they like us to change the pledge? Everybody present in that community forum said that we must keep our pledge. That is what we are doing.

Bill C-28, as I said earlier, is about the social conscience of our country. It is about the generosity that we have for each other as Canadians. The government reflects that social conscience in Bill C-28.

We would like to have a peace of mind when we get ill by sustaining our medicare system. We would also like to secure the future of Canada by ensuring that the cost of education remains at all times affordable to our youth.

Earlier in the debate an NDP member quoted Mr. Tom Kent saying that there had been some sort of betrayal. The NDP member went on to say that what we were seeing here was an illusion. Then she said that this was about a bill of tricks. Use of those words can be very beautiful, but when we analyse them very carefully we can ask whether the NDP is happy or is the NDP a hypocrite. Is $1.5 billion not real money? Is $1.5 billion only an illusion?

The amount of $1.5 billion is being added to the $11 billion that was supposed to be. The increase that will now amount to $12.5 billion did not just come from the air. This was an amount recommended by the National Forum on Health chaired by the prime minister himself. This was an amount that was deemed essential and the government made a positive response to that recommendation.

The recommendations of the National Forum on Health and others were supported by the NDP, by the Reform and by the Tories. Yet how could it be that when we are discussing a specific recommendation implemented in the bill we are hearing these questions of betrayal, of tricks and of illusions? We must come down to reality. When a bill indicates funding that will not go below the floor of $12.5 billion for the next five years, that is stable funding by any definition.

This amount was recommended by the National Forum on Health after wide consultations in the country. That is a realistic amount. When we give $12.5 billion for the Canada health and social transfer, by any definition that is a significant amount. I hope I have addressed the concerns of the NDP that wanted to hear that we have stable, realistic and significant funding.

I end with a key message. Because of the fiscal progress the country has made since 1993, we are now able to reinvest in the priority areas closest to the government's heart: medicare and education, research and development, and continuing support for the economy. We have responded very well to the National Forum on Health. I hope at the end of the day, at the end of debate, we will have unanimous support for the bill which is in the best interest of Canadians irrespective of their walk of life.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Speaker

We have approximately two minutes left so I will allow a minute for comment and question and a minute for response. I will go directly to the member for Acadie—Bathurst.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

I will try to be brief in putting my question, Mr. Speaker.

My hon. colleague was saying that the people of Canada support the Liberals in their fight against the deficit and have joined them in that fight. I do not agree with him because they did not give Canadians any choice.

Let me give you an example. In our region, the Liberal provincial health minister personally stated that, as a result of federal transfer cuts, in New Brunswick, seniors receiving long term care in hospital who are transferred to a nursing home may end up losing their homes if they cannot come up with $38,000 a year. That is the cost involved. I call that a two-tier system too.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Winnipeg North—St. Paul has approximately 45 seconds.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

Rey D. Pagtakhan Liberal Winnipeg North—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, certainly there are still problems. We do not deny that. We are realistic as well. However we have to put the problems in their context. We would all agree that delivery of the health care system is completely provincial jurisdiction.

When we speak of problems in the delivery of the health care system we have to challenge as well the provincial governments as to the level of funding they are giving to their systems in addition to the transfer payments. We are looking as well to the home care program that we may want to establish. This will require federal and provincial negotiations.

We are looking at establishing a national drug plan to the best that we can, following federal-provincial negotiations. I am really amazed that the member would say that the Canadian people did not support the need for the reduction of the fiscal deficit. I think they did and we are now reaping the benefits.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Adjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Reform

John Reynolds Reform West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC

Mr. Speaker, in December I asked the minister a question about the Immigration and Refugee Board. I would like to start off by congratulating an advisory group making recommendations to the minister for the work it did on that report, Mr. Roger Trempe, Miss Susan David and Dr. Roslyn Kunin,

One of the recommendations they made was to eliminate the Immigration and Refugee Board. The Immigration and Refugee Board is a national embarrassment to Canada right now. I could not agree with them more. What is interesting about it is that they make that recommendation, the minister puts out a press release congratulating them and a couple of days later she appoints a former Liberal member, Anna Terrana, to the Immigration and Refugee Board at a salary of $84,000 a year. We have to wonder how serious the government is in really looking at these recommendations.

The Immigration and Refugee Board has a 28,000 case backlog. Out of 21,000 people who have been ordered deported, there are 15,600 people left in Canada; 4,000 deported, 15,600 still in this country.

The people on this board make $86,400 each. That is the maximum. There are 198 members, $74 million a year. A good recommendation is to get rid of this board because it is not doing the taxpayers in this country any good at all.

There are 29,000 cases outstanding by the Immigration and Refugee Board. Eight-five hundred previously rejected are now under review. The average processing time for a claim is 13 months. Review of cases takes seven months. In reality the first processing of a claim takes two and half years.

Sixty per cent of the refugees who arrive in this country arrive without a passport or without identification. It costs about $300 million a year to keep these refugees on welfare and assistance.

It is time that this minister got serious about this board. The recommendations from her committee say that it should be cancelled. There was a great article this weekend by Anne Dawson of the Ottawa

Sun

. The chairman of the board, Mawani, refused an interview. So did the minister.

The public wants this board cancelled. It wants a different process. The Canadian people are fed up with what is happening with the refugee situation, people coming to our borders demanding status in Canada. They should have to apply from outside Canada like all the other people who come here. We hope the minister will take what the public wants, take what her committee is recommending and abolish this board.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Adjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Beaches—East York Ontario

Liberal

Maria Minna LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the hon. member's comments. It is important that the legislative review committee task force has done a great deal of work.

The minister has made it quite clear that she wants to consult with Canadians with respect to the recommendations and to hear back from Canadians as to the kind of direction the legislation will take. The hon. member is also welcome with his colleagues, as is every member in this House, to submit proposals, to react to the report as well. I am sure members of the committee will also be looking at this report.

It is premature at this point given that this report has only just been tabled and the minister will be starting on her consultations very shortly to immediately start talking about adopting one part or the other of the report. The report deals with a holistic approach in all parts of the act. It deals with the Immigration Act, the Refugee Act as well as the Citizenship Act.

One of the things the auditor general said very clearly was that we not take a piecemeal approach to changing the act or changing the immigration system but to look at a holistic way in dealing with it in all its parts.

When we deal with the Immigration and Refugee Board and its work and how its work in future will evolve, we are also looking at issues such as appeals, removals and so on. These are all very important issues that will be discussed. I am sure the hon. member will be participating and hopefully will be giving, with his party, his views on the rest of the report in addition to this one part.

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997Adjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

The Speaker

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.35 p.m.)