Debates of Feb. 9th, 1998

Ice Storm

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is telling us that Hydro-Québec will be penalized for being well run. This does not make sense.

The President of the Treasury Board said on Friday that Ottawa was not an automated teller machine you could withdraw money from whenever you wanted.

Does the minister realize that Quebeckers are depositing $31 billion annually in his automated teller machine and that they are entitled to expect to be treated properly and, above all, fairly?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, these are reasons that are often given, but they do not stand up. Large corporations such as Alcan and Bell Canada were not compensated, nor will they be.

Since the 1988 directive, electric companies in Newfoundland and Manitoba have not been compensated. Speaking of $29 billion, the Bloc Quebecois and the Parti Quebecois always forget to mention that, while Quebec paid $29 billion in taxes in 1993-94, transfer payments to that province in the same year were $41.9 billion. That is where we really come up $12 billion short.

Indian Affairs

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last week we asked the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development how a confidential letter written to her by Bruce Starlight could have got into the hands of Chief Roy Whitney. She said she did not know.

It turns out that Chief Roy Whitney is so connected to the Liberals that the finance minister was a fund-raiser when he ran as a candidate and the Prime Minister was a keynote speaker at Whitney's nomination meeting in 1993.

My question is, do all well-connected Liberal insiders have access to confidential and privileged information?

[The Speaker]

I am having a little trouble with the question. I will rule the question in order, but it is quite borderline. I will permit the hon. minister to answer.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

No, Mr. Speaker.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when Chief Roy Whitney ran as a Liberal candidate, the finance minister hosted a fund-raiser for him, two Liberal senators were in attendance, the Prime Minister was the keynote speaker at Whitney's nomination meeting and spoke at length and in glowing terms about his friend, Chief Roy Whitney.

Just last month Whitney accompanied the Prime Minister on a Team Canada trade mission.

Is this why the Indian affairs minister does not want an RCMP investigation? Is she afraid that it might lead to the door of the Prime Minister's office?.

[The Speaker]

I rule that question out of order. If the minister wants to answer it, she may.

Bill C-28

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government ethics commissioner last week said, with respect to Bill C-28: “Canada Steamship Lines has indicated clearly to me that it has no intention of utilizing this provision”.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Does the minister realize that this statement by the ethics commissioner clearly confirms that Canada Steamship Lines, fully owned by the Minister of Finance, could benefit from Bill C-28 if it so wished?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think I will answer this question, because they are trying to put the Minister of Finance in a position of conflict of interest.

The minister has a large company, as everyone knows, which he owns and founded. Its management is in the hands of a trustee as the rules of Parliament require. The Minister of Finance has assured this House, and I have assured myself, that the company could at no time benefit from the decision made to attract investment in Canada.

So, to ask the question as the member is doing is a bit malicious, since the Minister of Finance has done nothing wrong.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, any malice there may be comes from having buried a page and a half of amendments to legislation governing international shipping in a bill 464 pages long. This is a malicious act on the part of the Minister of Finance.

I have a supplementary. Would the minister not agree that, to date, he has been unable to prove once and for all that there is no conflict or at least the appearance of a conflict of interest between the legislation he introduced in this House and his own interests as a shipowner?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance did what was required of him when he became the Minister of Finance. Everyone knew he owned Canada Steamship Lines.

We discussed the matter at length with ethics commissioners to be sure that he could be Minister of Finance and serve Canada well and ensure that the very successful family firm he founded could operate in the interest of other shareholders without affecting his role as Minister of Finance of Canada. As such he has acted with dignity and integrity.

Indian Affairs

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Indian affairs minister has given excuse after excuse to justify the scandal in her department. She has left the grassroots Indian people feeling betrayed while she leaks their letters, ignoring the cause for the letters in the first place.

What steps has the minister taken to investigate the charges of fraud and corruption against Chief Whitney as outlined in the letter she received from Bruce Starlight?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, there is an ongoing RCMP investigation.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last week the Deputy Prime Minister said that he would look into the possibility of paying for Bruce Starlight's legal fees, seeing as how the leaked letter was the basis upon which the civil suit was launched.

Will the government pay for Bruce Starlight's legal fees?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is not usual that the department would intervene in a circumstance like this.

As I mentioned before in this House, which the Deputy Prime Minister has made clear, the facts are that we have an investigation in the department under way to follow the path which that letter took in my department. We have reviewed the process with the privacy commissioner, who has said that our approach is reasonable. Until the investigation is complete, there is no point in making a decision on this question.

Transfer Payments To Provinces

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Quebeckers have been hit hard by the unilateral cuts in transfers to the provinces resulting from the continual deficits of the federal government in recent years. Social and health services have been affected everywhere because the federal government balanced its budget on the backs of the provinces.

Does the Minister of Finance intend to act on the request of the Bloc Quebecois and pass anti-deficit legislation so that in the future the provinces are no longer faced with the consequences of federal deficits?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member's question is similar to proposals made by the Reform Party and the Conservative Party a few years ago. My answer is the same.

All formulae contain an exemption for economic downturns and catastrophes. These exemptions seen from a different angle always represent a gigantic hole that essentially voids these sorts of formulae. This is not our intention. We think it much more important to be more transparent and have very clear objectives.

Construction Industry

[Lynn Myers, Liberal, Waterloo—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

A report prepared for Human Resources Development Canada on an 18 month study into underground economic activity in the construction industry was recently leaked to the media. When will the minister officially release the report and what does he plan to do to crack the abuse and the undermining of our social programs as a result of the underground economy?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

We indeed developed a joint industry-government working group to examine the issue of underground economic activity in the construction industry. The report is the result of the working group study. It contains a detailed description of where and how underground activity takes place. It will be used by the working group to create an action plan to reduce underground employment activity in the construction industry.

Copies have been released to people interested, but I must say that we do not want it to go beyond—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Delta—South Richmond.

Fisheries

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta—South Richmond, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in granting me an absolute discharge for participating in a protest fishery, B.C. provincial court judge Howie Thomas has served notice that the courts will not enforce the minister's program of racially based commercial fisheries.

Judge Thomas was not making it up as he went along. He was guided by recent decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada.

In the face of last Friday's decision, will the government abandon its policy of racially based commercial fisheries?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, after an examination of the judge's remarks when he convicted the hon. member and also the comments surrounding the sentencing, the government has decided to proceed with the aboriginal fishing strategy because it believes that the regulations under which the strategy is based are entirely legal and above board.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta—South Richmond, BC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister not understand that if the courts refuse to prosecute fishermen for participating in these fisheries, and for defying his illegal fishery, that it is all over for him? Does he not understand that without the support of the courts chaos will reign?

How can the minister continue racially based commercial fisheries in defiance of the courts?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question is based on a very curious premise.

He states that the courts prosecute. The courts do not prosecute. They determine guilt or innocence, and in the case of the hon. member they convicted him.

Multilateral Agreement On Investment

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade. It has to do with the words the minister used on Friday, words like “overwhelming endorsation and consensus”, to describe attitudes toward the government's position on the MAI.

Does the minister not know that this is not true? Does he not know that a growing and significant number of Canadians are very concerned about the uncritical way in which the government is approaching globalization?

Will the minister listen to those Canadians, withdraw from the MAI negotiations and seek a global economy that works for people and the environment instead of multinational corporations?