Debates of Feb. 9th, 1998

Multilateral Agreement On Investment

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, when I said on Friday that there was an overwhelming endorsation on the part of the parliamentary committee, that is absolutely correct.

The general tenor of the committee was to continue our negotiations at the table to obviously push, protect and promote Canadian values and interests, which we are about to do.

I said many times we would sign the right deal at the right time and not any deal any time. The Reform Party was on side. The Conservative Party was on side. The Bloc Party was on side. The only party that said cut and run was the NDP. That is not how we build countries.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not a question of cutting and running. It is a question of how we are to shape globalization to serve communities, to serve the environment, to protect workers and not just to protect the rights of investors, which is what the MAI does.

The minister referred to the WTO on Friday. Why does he not try to do this at the WTO where developing countries will be at the table and where people who have some idea of how investments ought to be regulated in the public interest will be at the table, instead of just industrialized countries which unfortunately now seem to speak only for multinational corporations?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what we have been advocating.

The hon. member's party is against the bilateral route. It was against the FTA. It was against NAFTA. It said that we had to negotiate multilaterally. Now we have a multilateral deal on investment and the hon. member says that is not good enough either.

What is left for the NDP except building walls and barriers? Clearly that is not in the interests of Canada.

We also said that it properly belongs eventually at the WTO where we have rich and poor, north and south, black and white. We have said that and we continue to say that.

Iraq

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the United Nations and the United Nations Security Council are often mentioned in connection with the Iraq crisis. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Could the minister tell this House whether his government is of the opinion that the resolutions adopted in the past concerning the Iraq crisis legitimize military intervention in Iraq now?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, a number of resolutions since 1991 have called into account Iraq for a breach of the agreements made under the ceasefire.

In particular cases the latest one was November last year when security council again registered a breach or a violation of the agreement, which could lead to a threat to our national security. I believe that demonstrates there is an ongoing set of developments and decisions by the United Nations that support the need for strong action.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if I understand correctly, the United Nations Security Council still has in hand the resolutions for military intervention. Any major countries, therefore, that do not dare to speak up today are indirectly supporting military intervention in Iraq.

Are the minister and his government going to ask the United Nations Security Council to again make a decision on the Iraq question, or is this government going to settle for the old resolutions?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, at the present moment there are quite active discussions about a proposed resolution that might be considered.

The whole point of having a resolution is to have one that will be passed and agreed to, not one that provides further splits or divisions. The initiation at the security council requires the kind of active diplomacy the prime minister was talking about that we support.

Banking

[Susan Whelan, Liberal, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my riding is only one of many where Canadians are concerned about access to basic bank services. Many Canadians share this concern whether they live in rural Canada or downtown Toronto.

Could the Secretary of State for Financial Institutions ensure all Canadians that they will continue to have access to basic bank services?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member for Essex for the leadership she showed in maintaining and keeping open the only bank in Comber, Ontario.

Access to basic bank services in rural Newfoundland or downtown Victoria is a priority of the government. To get better access for low income Canadians I have written to the Canadian Bankers' Association, insisting that only two pieces of ID will be necessary to open a basic bank account regardless of past credit history.

If any Canadians are denied basic bank services, we want to know.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the leaks in the department of Indian affairs are becoming so bad that it is starting to resemble the Titanic .

The issue remains how is it that confidential letters to the minister, letters that alleged corruption by Indian chiefs, were leaked to the very chiefs in question. Today we are told that apparently the minister has finally decided to act and has called in the RCMP.

When did she call in members of the RCMP? What exactly are they investigating? Are they investigating the leaks of the department or Bruce Starlight's original allegation?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the opposition prefers to deal in innuendo and allegations. Let me just get the facts on the table again for the House.

First, it is absolutely inappropriate that Mr. Starlight's letter found its way into the hands of Chief Whitney.

Second, that letter was not conveyed by me or by any officials in my department.

Third, I am concerned that it may have come from my department and therefore I have demanded an investigation to be done. I reviewed the process with the privacy commissioner and he said that this is a reasonable approach.

I think it is they who are like the Titanic and going down.

Immigration And Refugee Board

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the number of government appointments to the Immigration and Refugee Board is rising considerably.

Between 1994 and 1996, the percentage of replacements had soared to 75% under the Liberal government. According to the auditor general's figures, it costs $92,000 to train a new board member.

How can the minister justify that the average term of office served by board members has dropped, under the Liberals, to only two and a half years, at a cost to the public of approximately $15 million for the sole purpose of satisfying the government's desire to appoint its friends to the board?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Longueuil does not have accurate information. The government itself has appointed an advisory committee independent of the minister and the government, whose mandate it is to evaluate the competence of individuals applying to become board members.

Since the committee was formed, the government has made no appointments without the explicit recommendation of this committee. As for the length of time served by new board members, it is well known that the chairperson of the board herself requires new board members—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre.

Multilateral Agreement On Investment

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister for International Trade talks about a consensus on the MAI.

He should know that there certainly was no consensus at the health committee about the ability of government to protect medicare from the commercial forces of the MAI. In fact he should know there is a growing consensus in Canada that the government should kill the MAI before the MAI kills medicare.

For the sake of medicare alone, would the international trade minister reconsider his attachment to the MAI?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, obviously there are concerns about any deal any government thinks of getting into, but licence should not be given irresponsibly to manipulate those concerns, to manipulate those anxieties and somehow to say that the MAI will to result in the sale of Canada. That is exactly the kinds of things that have been coming from the member's party.

The replication of the investment chapter in NAFTA is essentially the guiding principles. Since we have signed NAFTA the health care system has not—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Compton—Stanstead.

Iraq

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of National Defence said it was premature to discuss Canada's state of readiness.

Suddenly, less than a week later, the minister felt confident enough, and before checking with parliament, to tell the prime minister to commit Canadian troops and equipment to a U.S. led military strike on Iraq.

What information does the minister have today on our state of readiness that was not available just last week?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, in 1994 the defence white paper said we should have multipurpose combat capable forces and we do.

Whether or not they are to be deployed in this case is a decision the government has to make. As the prime minister has clearly indicated, before we make that decision we would welcome the input of members of the opposition, if they would only allow an opportunity for debate in the House.

Day Care

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

At the business women's trade mission to Washington last fall Canadian women stated that one of the largest impediments to women entrepreneurs is child care costs.

Is the minister prepared at least to consider making child care expenses deductible as costs incurred for the purpose of providing income?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to recognize that the child care expense deduction recognizes the cost of child care for all families where both parents are working regardless of the circumstances of their employment. This is a very important issue of equity.

That being said, I have had occasion both in Vancouver and Toronto to meet with a number of the women who were on this trade mission, women entrepreneurs. They raised a series of very important points and we will give them every consideration.

Fisheries

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans refused to turn over foreign observer reports. He claims he does not want to break the law when there is absolutely no law that prevents him from turning over those reports.

Why is he covering up for foreign vessels, for nations, while they are decimating our stocks? We are demanding the minister release these reports now. When do we get them?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the hon. member that I offered these reports to members of the committee last week. In addition we have provided all the information they contain in its aggregated form to the committee and to the House. The information he is requesting has been made available.

The actual observers reports, which section 20 of the Freedom of Information act prevents me by law from releasing, are available to them in camera, so they have whatever they need.

Trans-Quebec And Maritimes Gas Pipeline

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a $50 million contract has been awarded to the Texan firm Saw Pipes USA and the Japanese firm Kawasaki to supply the steel required for construction of a 225-kilometre long underwater natural gas pipeline in Canada. The bulk of Canadian spinoffs from this project were related to this contract.

Will the Minister of Natural Resources admit that the federal government decision to authorize the Mobil Oil project without allowing an assessment of the Canadian backed trans-Quebec and maritimes project will have disastrous economic consequences on job creation?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the contract to which the hon. gentleman refers is one that was discussed amply with potential Canadian suppliers. It turned out, following those discussions, that there was not a supplier in Canada that was in a position to provide the material up to the necessary specifications.

On the general point about whether or not the Sable offshore projects will be an advantage to Canada, that was reviewed by an independent panel which concluded undoubtedly that the project would carry major benefits for the Atlantic region and for the entire country.