Debates of April 30th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to quote what Mr. Bouchard said barely 48 hours ago “Are we going to go beyond the fault and force governments, even where there is no fault, to compensate injury? If that is to be the case, we must remember that taxes will go up and the quality and breadth of services are likely to be reduced. There are extremely profound consequences” he is afraid to face.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the Prime Minister justify spending millions on legal costs rather than on compensation for victims? What sort of choice is that?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what we witnessed yesterday in the National Assembly was a totally cynical act—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

My dear colleagues, it is becoming increasingly difficult to hear you.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I am sure we want to hear the questions and the answers. I encourage all of us to listen when a member is on his or her feet speaking. The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the government keeps telling us it has the support on hepatitis C. But the common front is cracking everywhere. Quebec and Ontario are calling on the federal government to compensate all victims.

Does the government intend to review the compensation program? Will the Prime Minister use Canadians' money to compensate all victims?

It is not a question of generosity, but a question of justice.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I will quote the NDP Saskatchewan health minister, Clay Serby, who said on April 23, 1998: “This in my opinion is not a political issue”. This has never been a political issue and we should not be making it into a political issue. This is not Saskatchewan's opinion only. This is the collective wisdom of all the provincial health ministers across the country whether the provincial governments are Liberal, Conservative or NDP.

I know it is the responsible thing to do. I repeat that—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister's flimsy defence is collapsing like a house of cards. The Manitoba health minister has made it clear that the federal government was never prepared to consider full compensation. It turns out that the bogus talk about principles was merely to mask the real issue, money.

Will the health minister go back to the provinces to put more money on the table and negotiate fair compensation for all of the victims of hepatitis C? Yes or no?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what has collapsed is the integrity and position taken by Ontario and Quebec. What has collapsed is the position they took with us that all victims during a period when governments were at fault should be compensated and beyond that there is no basis for doing so.

It is clear from what the hon. member said that she is not aware of what her own party members have said and done in Saskatchewan. They favour this approach. They favour this agreement because it is the right thing to do.

[Diane St-Jacques, Progressive Conservative, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration criticized her former premier on the grounds that his demonstration of humanity and flexibility comes too late and that he should have taken action when she was in his cabinet.

The minister also says that political courage and principles come at a price.

Where is this government's humanity? Where is the political courage of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Health to listen to the provinces and to reopen the agreement in order to include all hepatitis C victims?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, almost all of the provinces did not want to do anything at all. And it was because the Minister of Health put pressure on them that they backtracked and agreed to pay $300 million, while we are paying $800 million.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this government is running out of provinces to hide behind.

Canadians were unable to bank their own blood before 1986 and had no control over whether they were infected with tainted blood. But the health minister and the Prime Minister do not care about that. They care more about class action suits. It is not the first time they have dragged innocent people through the mud for class action suits. They should be doing the right thing and they refuse to.

I ask the Prime Minister, the next time he appoints a Minister of Health, will he appoint a doctor instead of a lawyer?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when I make someone a minister it is not because of his profession but because of his intelligence and his human qualities. This Minister of Health was the first one to try to do something with this file.

I see all these people now who did not want to do anything at all who signed very reluctantly are now dropping crocodile tears stating that the feds should pay and not them. They should be responsible. That is what people—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Nanaimo—Cowichan.

[Reed Elley, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe this. Yesterday we asked the discredited health minister to prove how many Canadians were infected with hep C before 1986. He refused. We will do what he will not. Recent provincial surveys in both British Columbia and Nova Scotia indicate there could be as few as 15,000 nationwide. That is 15,000 too many.

Will the Prime Minister stop pitting Canadians against hepatitis C victims, admit he is wrong about the numbers and compensate all victims who contracted this disease from tainted blood in the supply?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should know that Mr. Justice Krever himself accepted the numbers that were produced by the director of our laboratory centre for disease control. If the hon. member would read the Krever Report, which he likely has not, he would see that Dr. Paul Gully's numbers for the number of people infected in the relevant period was accepted by the Krever commission.

In any event this decision was not made on the basis of numbers. It was made on the basis of a proper principle that these members apparently do not understand. That is, you do not pay cash to people because they have become sick; you pay cash as damages because you did something wrong.

As for those who are sick, this country has the best medicare system.

[Reed Elley, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, quite frankly I do not think Canadians want to hear any more from this discredited health minister.

Fearmongering about the total number of victims is not working. Liberals in Quebec and B.C. know the Prime Minister is playing some bogus numbers game and now so does Ontario. Wait and see who else is going to come on board.

Why is the government refusing to produce the real numbers of those who became infected with hep C before 1986?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Justice Krever accepted the number estimate prepared by the director of the laboratory centre for disease control of the Department of Health. He was prepared to proceed on the basis of that analysis.

This decision was not made on the basis of numbers. Perhaps that is the way the member would approach it, by calculating numbers. We approach this on the basis of principle and we developed a proper public policy.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

A number of government members have said that the fight to compensate hepatitis C victims would continue. Some even added that if the provinces were to reconsider their initial position, the issue would have to be revisited.

Now that the situation has changed, with the resolution passed by the Quebec National Assembly and the position adopted by Ontario, should the Prime Minister not go beyond partisan politics, as the Quebec government did yesterday, reconsider his position and agree—

[The Speaker]

I am sorry to interrupt. The Right Hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it would have been nice if, yesterday, Quebec's premier and its health minister had said that, because they are compassionate, they are going to give money. Instead, they passed the buck to the federal government.

Whenever we take action, they blame us for getting involved. Now that there is a problem, they are burying their heads in the sand and trying to blame others, instead of assuming their responsibilities.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister wants to make history by beginning the third millennium with all sorts of festivities and projects, but how can he end the second millennium on such a tragic note as the hepatitis C issue?