Debates of April 30th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we provided $800 million for hepatitis C victims, while the provinces only contributed $300 million.

Quebec was among the provinces that did not want to pay. For days on end, it tried to take cover. Now, in a show of bravery, it is passing the buck to the federal government.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have listened to this debate for a week now. I can only conclude that what this is all about is the Prime Minister's precious little ego.

We know that the public wants to compensate hepatitis C victims. We know that the provinces want to compensate the victims. We know that the backbenchers want to compensate victims even though they could not find the courage to vote in favour of compensation.

Why will the Prime Minister not admit that he will not compensate victims because of his ego? Why will he not admit that he made a mistake?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, those people have a great social conscience. Where was their courage when they voted against the human rights act amendment in the House of Commons? Where was their courage when they voted against employment equity legislation? Where was their courage when they expelled Jan Brown and Jim Silye because they had too much compassion?

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it looks like the little guy from Shawinigan is really the big ego from Shawinigan. That is what it boils down to.

The fact is that the government did not have to bring in a confidence motion on this vote. The Prime Minister did not have to pummel his backbenchers into submission. Why will he not admit that he has made a mistake? Why is he letting his big ego stand in the way of doing the right thing? Why will he not help hep C victims?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are helping the hep C victims for the period when it was clearly determined that the government had responsibility. Between 1986 and 1990 it could have tested properly. It did not do its job. When it was confronted with the problem it created a commission to postpone the solution.

We took on that problem and we are doing what a responsible government has to do, which is to compensate when it has responsibility. Otherwise it will have, to be equitable, to compensate everybody who is handicapped in life because of some sickness.

Treasury Board

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, to give the Prime Minister time to examine his conscience, I will address my question to the President of the Treasury Board.

Under our parliamentary system, each minister is fully responsible for his officials and, more importantly, his political assistants, who act in his name daily.

How can the President of the Treasury Board think the Corbeil matter is closed, when he himself is responsible, through a political assistant, for providing for solicitation purposes lists of businesses awaiting financial assistance?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was informed of certain actions by a minister of this government as soon as the accusations were made. An investigation was made of all the facts, including those referred to by my colleague.

The RCMP laid only one charge. The decision has been handed down now in the case of the individual charged.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is all very well for the minister to say his lists are available to certain individuals for consultation. In his view, what interest could a Liberal fundraiser have in these lists other than for soliciting funds with the blessing of the office of the President of the Treasury Board, under his responsibility?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, once again, all these issues were discussed last fall. A full RCMP investigation was held at our request. It was completed and led to only one charge. The RCMP has all the facts, and now a judgment has been rendered.

Hepatitis C

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Liberal backbenchers have been waking up lately in the morning having a little bit of trouble looking in the mirror. Some of them feel used and some of them feel dirty. If they do not they should.

My question is for the Prime Minister. He keeps saying that the provinces are the problem, that the provinces will not buy into a compensation package for all victims.

Ontario and Quebec have agreed to the principle that all hep C victims should be compensated.

Will he enter into negotiations with those provinces to see how we can compensate all hep C victims? Will he do that?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what a cynical political position: the Government of Quebec and the Government of Ontario reportedly saying they really should be paid something to raise the hopes of the victims, and then they say “We are not going to contribute a nickel”. What a cynical political position.

The government had the courage to say to Canadians and to those with hepatitis C that it would accept responsibility for that period during which governments should have acted. Those governments of Quebec and Ontario should also have the courage to be frank.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the governments of Ontario and Quebec have the decency to be compassionate and that is something this minister has not got anything left of.

I do not believe this minister any more. I do not believe him when he says that he could—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Fraser Valley.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe this minister any more and I do not think Canadians are believing this minister.

He has the responsibility to look after the sick and the needy and he is failing in that responsibility.

What I want to know, not from the minister but from the Prime Minister, is will he enter into negotiations with those provinces today to see how we can develop a compensation package for all hepatitis C victims who contracted the disease through tainted blood? Will he do that now?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member speaks about compassion, but we know how this crew treats victims. I watched them when I was in justice. They take a victim of crime and exploit them shamelessly. They are doing the same thing with health issues. They are taking innocent victims of health problems and diseases and exploiting them for their own narrow political purposes.

This group is shameful in its conduct.

Atlantic Groundfish Strategy

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the premiers of the Atlantic provinces and of Quebec have sent a letter to the Prime Minister of Canada calling on him to establish compensatory measures as promptly as possible in order to help the fishery workers dependent on TAGS.

Since the future of 40,000 workers depends on this, does the Prime Minister realize that it is essential to put a TAGS-like program in place promptly, particularly since the conditions are still the same as they were at the time of its creation?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, in 1993, as soon as we realized there was a problem, our government implemented an extremely important program. The members opposite are now calling for a similar program after criticizing the original one. So they should not ask us for something similar.

We are aware that the situation is a serious one, because the fish did not come back as we had hoped. The ministers in our government concerned by this problem are working very hard at this time to ensure we will have a humanitarian approach to helping the people in this difficult situation after the month of August.

Multilateral Agreement On Investment

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

Under the MAI foreign investors will have to obey Canadian laws even if it affects their bottom line. Can the minister inform Canadians whether Canada will be obliged to compensate a foreign investor for any perceived loss or actual loss to their profits as a result of complying with Canadian law?

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the most succinct answer is no.

Canada will only accept an MAI that provides a narrow interpretation of expropriation; that is, the historic interpretation as practised under Canadian law at the present time. We will not sign an MAI that goes beyond that interpretation.

Hepatitis C

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, look where we are now. Provincial support is crumbling for the hepatitis C deal, yet the cold-hearted Liberal Prime Minister is standing firm.

The government and the Prime Minister is telling victims like Joey Hache “We will see you in court”.

Can the Prime Minister tell me exactly how many lawyers he has hired to fight Joey Hache and the other victims of tainted blood?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it appears that the provincial position, at least on the part of Quebec and Ontario, is that they are still very much a part of the agreement. Premier Bouchard was quite clear in saying yesterday that he remains supportive of the agreement.

However, the cynical part of what he has done is to go beyond that and say that all victims should be compensated and Ottawa should do it. That is completely unacceptable. It is cynical, it is cruel to victims and it is entirely inappropriate.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians do not want to hear a weak excuse from this discredited health minister. These victims do not want to fight the government in court. What they want is to be compensated fairly. They are being forced to take the government to court.

My supplementary question is for the Prime Minister. Does the government really think it is compassionate to deny sick victims compensation, yet, on the other hand, be willing to spend millions of dollars on lawyers to fight the victims of poisoned blood?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what we have done as governments is to offer cash compensation to people who were harmed through fault. For those who are ill, including all of those with hepatitis C, provinces like Quebec and Ontario would do well to look to their responsibilities to deliver services to the sick, services that are consistent across the country, services that respond to their needs.

Instead of playing cheap political games, the governments of Quebec and Ontario should not hide from their own responsibility of providing quality health services.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Ontario and Quebec have changed their minds on this government's limited compensation package for hepatitis C.

The Manitoba government is critical of this government on this matter. We on this side of the House believe that all provinces should follow suit.

Since the provincial solidarity that the minister has boasted so much about is gone, will he now go back to the drawing board, contact the provinces and arrive at a compensation package that is fair for all blood injured Canadians?