Debates of Nov. 29th, 1999

Canadian Tourism Commission Act

[John Bryden, Liberal, Wentworth—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is how separatists and federalists speak to each other.

I was there when the Prime Minister ran into that demonstrator in Hull. It was quite dreadful, because the Prime Minister and the demonstrators exchanged words in front of school children. For a brief moment, in an amusement park with ice sculptures, a demonstrator shouted dreadful things. Then, the Prime Minister left the stage and the demonstrator stepped in his way. Any normal human being would have reacted the same way, and I saw how the Prime Minister reacted.

In British Columbia, RCMP officers had to deal with students in a very difficult situation. I once was a reporter and I can tell the House that the media have exploited the situation and ignored the facts.

Lastly, I think Reformers have created quite a stir with the questions they chose to ask in the House of Commons about this event, because I believed that Canadians for the most part understand what happened when the students decided to confront the RCMP in order to grab the headlines.

[Philip Mayfield, Reform, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. This intervention began at five minutes to the hour. It is now 20 minutes later. In the speech, the questions and the comments I have not heard anything about the Canadian tourism commission or Bill C-5. This is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is an important topic that deserves to be debated and discussed.

I object to this harangue between the government member and the Bloc member on a matter that is totally irrelevant.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The Chair has already expressed its concern twice. I know that hon. members have a wide latitude and I assume that they were suggesting that perhaps something to do with the constitutional status of various provinces in Canada might have something to do with the attractiveness of the country as it concerns tourism. I do not know.

However, I, like the hon. member, have been waiting and hoping that we might get closer to the bill before the House. I know the hon. member for Wentworth—Burlington, as he moves to conclude his remarks, will want to do that.

[John Bryden, Liberal, Wentworth—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have said all I wanted to say.

[Dale Johnston, Reform, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I too was intrigued, in fact mesmerized, to see how the member for Wentworth—Burlington could work the Prime Minister's Shawinigan handshake into tourism.

If the member could do that, I think it is well worth the House allowing him a little latitude in his speech because, as my friend from Grasslands pointed out, this is an intriguing subject. If somehow the Prime Minister choking some protester could be worked into Canada's tourism, I would be intrigued to know how the hon. member would suggest we do that.

[John Bryden, Liberal, Wentworth—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question because it gives me an opportunity to conclude by observing that what I was trying to say, and I do not know whether I was successful or not, was that Canada is bigger than just tourism. We are admired worldwide because of our spirit of tolerance. There is no better example of it than the fact that we can have a dialogue here, a real dialogue among Canadians who do not share the same views of national unity.

I think that is something to celebrate. I think that when we speak of tourism I want to brag about not just my lakes, forests and mountains, but I want to brag about this parliament that permits the kind of debate that we have here.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I must say that I have mixed feelings about this debate. We are debating at second reading Bill C-5, an act to establish the Canadian tourism commission.

The bill states that the enactment will establish a crown corporation to be known as the Canadian tourism commission. Clause 5 states:

The objects of the commission are to

(a) sustain a vibrant and profitable Canadian tourism industry;

(b) market Canada as a desirable tourist destination;

(c) support a cooperative relationship between the private sector and the governments of Canada, the provinces and the territories with respect to Canadian tourism; and

(d) provide information about Canadian tourism to the private sector and to the governments of Canada, the provinces and the territories.

It is difficult for anyone who has an interest in the future of tourism in our country to oppose this legislation. I appreciate that there are other priorities that we should probably be dealing with. I want to say that tourism is a significant economic priority that ought to be pursued.

We know what is swirling around the countryside. We know that this week delegates from more than 100 nations will meet in Seattle to discuss the World Trade Organization's new round of negotiations. Reports tell us that there are tens of thousands of people in the streets opposing that initiative. I hear from my friend from Esquimalt that he is concerned about other social issues, like homelessness, the lack of affordable housing, the aging population and the implications that that has for housing, health care and other social programs. There are one and a half million children living in poverty. We could look at the pulverizing the Canadian cultural sector is taking, to say nothing about agriculture, fisheries, forestry and the fact that our water is being threatened in terms of exports. There are huge national issues before us and today the government is saying that it wants to discuss Bill C-5 to set up the Canadian tourism commission.

It has to be seen in that context. I would just as soon be talking about a lot of other things, but if this is all we have to do for the rest of the day, then so be it, this is what I will talk about and I will talk about it with some relish.

My colleague from Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre gave a very eloquent presentation the other day. I would encourage anyone who was not here to see it, listen to it or watch that very creative and thoughtful performance to read Hansard . I would think it is probably the kind of speech in Hansard that one would want to clip out and place on a placard in one's bedroom.

Some of the details of Bill C-5 do not have to be covered. I want to say that there are other aspects of tourism that we should consider. At the top of the list, in my judgment, would be to complement the work done by the commission. We should be using more staff from our embassies, consulates and high commissions. These Canadian men and women, and nationals from the respective countries, represent Canada on extremely limited budgets. They do the best they can to represent the Canadian tourism sector and to encourage people to visit Canada.

I have visited half a dozen embassies and high commissions in the last few years. I was always impressed with what individuals have been able to accomplish on such small budgets. I cannot help but think that for an extra few dollars and an extra few staff persons to promote Canada, this would be an obvious thing for us to be doing. I want to flag that as the number one priority, that somebody, somewhere, perhaps even the commission itself, should give consideration to using our overseas representatives in a more creative and productive way when it comes to tourism.

The other thing to recognize is that Canada is a vast country. We are the second largest country in the world. When tourists come, they visit all parts of the country. In many parts of the country the attractions, the tourism infrastructure, are provided by very small operators. Often these small operators have a very difficult time accessing capital for tourism ventures because of high risk, seasonality or because they are located in remote areas.

Banks and other lending institutions like to lend money to very secure investments in the big urban centres. When we start talking about a ski hill in a remote location, a tourism development in Cypress Hills, or tourism facilities in all parts of the country, accessing capital is a major problem.

I suggest that we find some mechanism to assist those entrepreneurs, those business representatives who are prepared to risk their capital to build the necessary tourism infrastructure in the rural parts of Canada, to access capital at a reasonable rate and under reasonable terms.

When I say reasonable terms, I mean when an entrepreneur establishes a tourism facility in a remote location in the high Arctic, for example, or in the northern part of Saskatchewan, British Columbia or elsewhere, often the return will take two or three years before it really starts to make any significant inroads in terms of being a profitable operation. That does not make the banks and other lending institutions very happy. We have to find more progressive ways to get capital into the hands of those entrepreneurs.

I have a proposal that I would like to put on the table, and that is that we consider the establishment of what I like to call tourist bonds. They could be in the form of Canada savings bonds. People could invest in the tourism sector, knowing that the moneys generated by those particular bonds would be earmarked and dedicated to developing tourism infrastructure in the more remote parts of the country where people have difficulty accessing capital.

I see my friend from Cariboo here. I think he would support such a notion. If we could find some way to establish a source of capital for entrepreneurs in the rural and distant parts of the country, we would be doing people a real service. It is something they would appreciate and make maximum use of.

The other area we have to consider is the whole issue of transportation infrastructure. Let us face it, at the moment Canada's two major international airlines do a lot of promotion for Canada. Obviously they are promoting their services as well as Canada, but Canadian Airlines and Air Canada, as well as VIA Rail, attract visitors worldwide. Once they are here then other agencies can take over and provide the necessary promotion and information.

If we are serious about the tourism sector, it is important to enhance the tourism travelling infrastructure of the country: the highway systems, the regional airlines and in particular the rail systems.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

The national agricultural policy.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

My friend says “the national agricultural policy”. He is always promoting agriculture, but I suppose people want to come here to see agriculture, certain kinds of exotic animals and new strains of wheat and barley. We could get kind of carried away here. Watching wheat grow can be quite an attraction, particularly for my friend from Regina.

In closing, we look forward to enhancing the tourism sector of the country as a way of providing employment opportunities to Canadians who are currently unemployed or underemployed and would like to do something in an exciting field.

To do that I will simply propose that we as the national parliament do whatever is necessary through this legislation and through other initiatives to ensure that we go out and market abroad the natural and cultural features of our great country to attract people from around the world to visit Canada.

They are coming anyway, but we could enhance those numbers significantly with a real marketing campaign at the national level, to be complemented by campaigns at the provincial and territorial levels. They would also invest in creative initiatives to attract people once they arrive in Canada to spend time, whether it is in Quebec, Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia, Yukon or British Columbia. For sure they could come and spend time there.

Once they get into the provinces then it is up to the regional boards, the regional organizations, the chambers of commerce, the boards of trade and the tourism boards to attract people into those areas to visit their points of interest.

Common to all this are the tourist operators themselves. Mainly we are talking about small businesses. They are the main providers of entertainment to visitors to our great country. With those kinds of partnerships I can only imagine how successful we could be. We are already reasonably successful, but we could be really successful with that kind of co-operation.

I think Bill C-5 is a step in the right direction. When we have a board of up to 26 people representing the industry from the private sector, some bureaucrats and so on, we have to wonder if it is the way to approach the situation. However, let us give it the benefit of the doubt. Also, as the legislation goes through committee, let us include an opportunity to evaluate the legislation three years hence. Is the legislation effective? Is the legislation doing what we set out to accomplish? Is it doing what the government has said it could do?

Whatever legislation passes in the House costs taxpayers money. It is important that a review is built into it so that it is evaluated on a regular basis. With that protection I can speak for my colleague for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre and the New Democratic caucus and say that we will be supporting the legislation with enthusiasm as a major step in the right direction, but only a step.

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

May I ask a question?

[The Deputy Speaker]

We are about to call it 6.30, but there will be time for 10 minutes worth of questions and comments for the hon. member from Kamloops the next time the bill comes before the House and, as the hon. member for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre says, there is also that opportunity in the lobby.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on November 3 last I asked the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food to admit that there was a real farm income crisis in western Canada and to announce some real farm aid. All he could talk about was that the Liberal government had done a great job and that farmers should not be worried.

Farmers are very worried. There are four major reasons the farm income crisis is in its current position. The first one is a 60% reduction in farm subsidies or supports for farm products.

In 1995 I attended the Council of Europe where members of parliament from all European countries gather together on a regular basis to discuss issues of importance. I attended a meeting of the agriculture committee of the Council of Europe and asked what they would do with their agriculture subsidies.

At that time European subsidies for farmers were about triple what Canadian subsidies were before the Liberals eliminated the transportation benefit for western grain farmers in 1995. We were told by the Liberal government at that time that the transportation subsidies had to be eliminated because of the World Trade Organization.

We were told by the Liberal government that the subsidy was being eliminated because of WTO regulations. I asked members of that committee what they would do because the European subsidies were greater than ours. They kind of laughed and said that I was gravely mistaken if I believed for one moment that they would eliminate agriculture subsidies because of the U.S.A. As well, they had five years under the WTO to address the issue of agricultural products and transportation subsidies. I was told that I was gravely mistaken if I thought that after five years they would sacrifice their farmers.

Here we are almost five years later and western grain farmers, particularly in Saskatchewan, have sacrificed $340 million a year in lost subsidies, which is a loss of about $1.5 billion in terms of income. As well we have seen increases in costs for transportation subsidies rise. In some cases they are triple of what they were at that time. This is one of the major reasons farmers are in trouble.

The second reason is that there was a 60% drop in commodity prices as a result of European and American farmers continuing to receive massive subsidies from their governments. This is really costing our farmers a lot of grief and a lot of money.

The third reason there is a major tragedy in the farm income of western grain farmers is the fact that input costs have risen unfettered. The Liberal government refuses to watch how the prices of fertilizers, fuel, and all kinds of chemical costs and pesticides increase. Farmers have to pay those increased prices. The taxes that are levied, the GST and other federal taxes, are crippling these farmers. Farmers need a tax break from the Liberal government, which they have not received in many years.

The fourth and major reason why farmers are in this huge income crisis is the Liberal government itself. It has lost touch. I guess the best example of that is the byelection in Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar that was held on November 15.

The Liberals who were touting one of their heavy duty candidates for election failed to address the issues of farm communities in the Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar district. As a result they went from a lead in the polls prior to the election call to finishing a dismal third and almost losing their deposit. They got 15.4% of the vote. That is all they got because they have lost touch with western grain farmers.

This is why we now need emergency assistance for our farmers who are very much up against it. Right now we are looking at about 40% of our farmers not being able to farm next spring and summer if an emergency aid program is not provided as soon as possible.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question posed by the member for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre I want to say that while overall the agriculture and agri-food sector is strong and makes a significant contribution to the Canadian economy, the government knows that the past year has not been an easy one for many producers.

The updated projections released on November 2 were produced jointly with the provinces. The Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food does not produce incorrect or misleading information. The same people who predicted the minus $48 million were the same people who revised the projections to $325 million.

The $325 million upward revision between the July and November projections for 1999 is mainly the result of an increase in NISA payments and cattle and durum wheat receipts, combined with the decrease in operating costs, in particular pesticide and fertilizer. Statistics Canada estimates of farm cash receipts for January to September 1999 are in line with the October forecast for the prairies of the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

However, the farm income forecasts are not the most important numbers. The numbers are fluid and changing. Whatever the numbers turn out to be they are just that, numbers. The real subject here is people, not income forecasts.

The government has introduced changes to the AIDA program that will benefit many producers across the country. We will now be covering a portion of negative margins, which occur when a farm has a particularly bad year and the operation has insufficient revenues to cover variable costs for fuel, machinery repair and chemicals.

Farmers now have the option to make a one time choice in 1999 of the reference period on which the claimant calculation for AIDA is based. They will be able to choose either the previous three years or three of the previous five when the high and low income years are not counted.

In provinces where the federal government delivers the program we are committed to having the processing of AIDA claims completed by Christmas.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.36 p.m.)