Debates of Nov. 30th, 1999

Municipal Grants Act

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Bloc Quebecois members will support the motion.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, members of the NDP present this evening vote yes to this motion.

[André Harvey, Progressive Conservative, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, members of the Progressive Conservative Party will be voting in favour of the motion.

[John Nunziata, Independent, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the good people of York South—Weston would want me to vote in favour of this motion.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Portage—Lisgar votes yea.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Division No. 60

[The Speaker]

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly, the bill is referred to the Standing Committee on Natural Resources and Government Operations.

(Bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

[The Speaker]

It being 5.50 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of Private Members' Business as listed on today's order paper.

Recognition Of Crimes Against Humanity Act

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

moved that Bill C-224, an act to establish by the beginning of the 21st century an exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization to recognize the crimes against humanity as defined by the United Nations that have been perpetrated during the 20th century, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-224 was originally introduced on February 15, 1999, as Bill C-479. The number was changed because the House prorogued and began a new session. The bill calls upon the government to establish an exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization to recognize the crimes against humanity that occurred in the 20th century. In total about 90 million people have died in this century from crimes against humanity.

There are many different definitions of crimes against humanity. Some call it genocide. Some call it holocaust. Some call it murder or atrocities. I chose the UN definition so that nobody could argue about it because we signed the UN definition of crimes against humanity.

I did not use the word genocide because our government and many governments around the world recognize that over 90 million people died of genocide. For example, 35 million Chinese people died because of genocide. I have used the phrase crimes against humanity because it would be inclusive.

The second point I wish to make is that I did not ask to have a freestanding museum for genocide or crimes against humanity, simply because as backbenchers we are not allowed to ask the government to spend money. I hope those two reasons will be taken into consideration when we go forward in our discussions.

I also acknowledge the presence in the gallery of the representative of the Turkish government at the embassy here and the charge d'affaires of public affairs of the Republic of Armenia. I was successful at bringing these two nations together in the gallery to sit down and listen to the debate. I also believe there are some Canadians of various backgrounds who are very much concerned with this issue.

When I first introduced my bill on February 15 I said in the House:

The purpose of the bill is to mandate the establishment at the beginning of the 21st century of an exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization recognizing all crimes against humanity that have been perpetrated during the 20th century.

Canadians from diverse backgrounds have been affected by crimes against humanity that have taken place throughout the 20th century. The suffering of any group of victims is no less significant than that of any other group.

In introducing the bill I hope to address the concern that the creation of a museum to recognize only one group of victims would severely diminish the significance of the millions of other lives that have been lost or ruined as victims of crimes against humanity.

How can we as a government support one group of victims and ignore the suffering of others?

That would be an insult to the other 90 million people who died during this century.

The Senate held hearings in May 1998 and came up with a report called “Guarding History”. Recommendation No. 12 of that report called for the establishment of a museum for the genocide and/or the holocaust. My bill addresses the report given to us by the Senate.

We will recall also that the Prime Minister went to Auschwitz at the beginning of this year. I was hoping that he would make an announcement there that we would have an inclusive museum of genocide in the country. I regret that was not the case. Hopefully after the discussion today an inclusive museum will be established.

I visited Poland with the parliamentary delegation for NATO. I had a chance to visit Maidanek where I saw incredible scenes of atrocities. The number of nationalities involved in those atrocities was about 54. There were all victims of crimes against humanity.

When I presented my bill back in February I received, within two hours, endorsements from over 100 members of parliament. They wanted to see the bill come to the floor to be discussed. I will take this opportunity to thank them for their support. It was very beneficial to me. Throughout the few months that I worked on this, I had enormous support from various cultural groups, the list of which I will read soon.

We also had the chance to send about 85,000 pieces of literature: some post cards, some letters, some petitions and some just regular mail. Mr. Speaker, I would like to submit some to you. I would ask for the unanimous consent of the House to table these two pages.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The member for Brampton Centre has asked the unanimous consent of the House to table some papers in connection with his private member's bill. Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, earlier in my comments I said that I had enormous support from many Canadians. Twenty-three committees have supported me so far. For the record they are: Association for Learning and Preserving of the History of WWII in Asia, ALPHA; Belarusan Canadian Coordinating Committee; Buddhist Communities of Greater Toronto; Canadian Arab Federation; Canadian Islamic Congress; Canadian Ukrainian Immigrant Aid Society; Council of the Muslim Community of Canada; Cypriot Canadian Federation; Federation of Associations of Canadians Tamils; Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations; Hellenic Canadian Congress; Hellenic Committee for Human Rights and National Issues: Latvian National Federation of Canada; National Association of Canadians with Origins in India; National Federation of Pakistani Canadians; Palestine Heritage Canada; Pan African Movement of Canada; Serbian National Shield Society of Canada; Slovenian National Federation; Toronto Kurdish Community and Information Centre; Ukrainian Canadian Civil Liberties Association; Ukrainian Canadian Congress; Ukrainian National Federation of Canada; and Ukrainian Women's Organization of Canada.

Two weeks ago, I had the honour of enlisting the support of the Armenian General Benevolent Union headed Mr. Danny Boyajan, which made my support at 23.

I will read a couple of lines from a letter which I received from the Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations. It reads:

The Federation urges the Canadian government to consider the establishment of a broadly based museum or exhibit on genocide that is inclusive of the realities of all ethnocultural communities.

It goes on to say:

Such a process should be publicly determined and accountable to the system.

I whole-heartedly agree with this.

I also have a general letter of support from a group of Canadians called Canadians for a Genocide Museum. They say that their 24-member association represents a wide multicultural group and that they whole-heartedly support the passing of Bill C-224, an act to establish by the beginning of the 21st century a museum exhibit to recognize crimes against humanity. As members can see, the support for this bill is enormous.

I had the chance to go to the Ukrainian church on the weekend for a commemoration. It was the 66th anniversary of the famine genocide on the Ukrainian population which took place in 1933. I was very moved to see young Canadians lighting candles for each of the nationalities I mentioned earlier that had suffered atrocities.

Further, on November 18 I asked a question in the House of Commons to the Minister of Canadian Heritage. In reply, she said:

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to thank the member for Brampton Centre who has done an incredible job getting together 22 organizations from across the country to work on this very important issue.

I hope that all members of the House will be here to speak in support of private member's bill, Bill C-224, which will be debated in the House on November 30.

I thank the minister for her support. I would like to save a few minutes at the end of the debate for my final comments.

[Peter Goldring, Reform, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-224, the recognition of crimes against humanity act, sponsored by the hon. member for Brampton Centre. It is regrettable that the bill is not votable. It is hoped that the government will take serious note of this debate and act upon the sentiments that are expressed by myself and my hon. colleagues.

Under Bill C-224, the Canadian Museum of Civilization is directed by parliament to establish an exhibit that recognizes crimes against humanity perpetrated during the 20th century. The exhibit is to be located in the Canadian Museum of Civilization. The board of trustees is given two years from the time of the parliamentary direction to establish the exhibit “crimes against humanity” under the act defined by the United Nations. That definition is quite broad, encompassing specific acts committed as part of a widespread or systemic attack directed against any civilian population.

By using the United Nations crimes against humanity definition rather than the United Nations definition of genocide, the hon. member has broadened the categories of acts that would be depicted by the Canadian Museum of Civilization. Genocide is a crime against humanity, although not all crimes against humanity are genocides. Genocide is an act committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.

While the notorious rape of Nanking, China by the Japanese prior to the commencement of World War II would be categorized as a crime against humanity, it is not genocide. The rape of Nanking is a matter of particular horror to those Canadians with family ties to China, just as the Russian-induced Ukrainian famine of 1932-1933 is a matter of particular horror to those Canadians with ties to the Ukraine. If, by the hon. member's bill, the rape of Nanking were to be remembered in Canada, that would mean very much to many people.

I am supportive of the hon. member's bill, and in particular of his willingness to support parliamentary direction into how our federally funded museums shall utilize the public financial resources that are voted on by this House and to be used in accordance with the wishes of the House. Sometimes bureaucrats forget that the public funds that they are accountable for are in fact trust funds for the public's benefit, with the trust established through votes in the House.

In the past, we have seen a need for intervention by members of the House and the other place with respect to the administration of the Canadian War Museum and an ill-fated proposal to house a holocaust gallery in it. Many in the House and elsewhere commented that it would be preferable to address this dark side of humanity elsewhere than in the Canadian War Museum. They felt this way since so much of our Canadian war artifacts and war art have yet to be properly displayed in the war museum.

These people also recognize that while there is one historically recognized Holocaust, the holocaust is part of a much larger history of attempted genocides and related crimes against humanity. Humanity's dark side should be subject to a separate display that is not tied to Canada's proud war history. As one step, I have introduced a motion, M-18, calling for a separate, self-sustaining world genocide museum in Canada.

The bill of the hon. member for Brampton Centre is one step in the right direction. One reason that his bill is declaratory and does not go so far as to require the creation of a separate crimes against humanity museum is that, as a government backbencher, the hon. member cannot introduce legislation requiring government expenditures; in short, he cannot introduce a money bill.

The human race has witnessed acts of genocide throughout its history. Genocide is not solely the horrendous byproduct of certain wars. In fact many incidents of genocide are not war related at all. Genocide is always a failure of humanity; the dark side of a civilization run amok.

It is important to groups which have been decimated by genocidal acts that the world remember the particular atrocities in order to learn and understand what happened. All groups affected by genocidal acts want only to be remembered equally. The genocides of world history cannot be distinguished on the basis of size or scope. All genocide is horror.

In my view, Canada should institutionalize remembrance to the construction of a world genocide museum. This would be a museum in Canada's capital depicting the madness and inhumanity of the decimation of so many. Such a museum would send a powerful message to visiting world leaders. It would speak clearly to all Canadians as to the duty to be advocates of a world peace that respects all persons.

As is commonly understood, our history has witnessed one Holocaust in World War II, and many attempted genocides. The Holocaust is a uniquely recognized attempt at genocide. Others are not so similarly recognized but should be clearly remembered.

In my view, genocide should be regarded more as a failure of civilization rather than a product of war, whether it be the Ukrainian famine, the Cambodian killing fields or the Holocaust. The dark side of humanity is a separate issue to be remembered quite apart from the honourable military histories. It is my hope that consideration will be given to examining the dark side of humanity throughout history by way of the establishment in Canada of a permanent world genocide museum.

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the bill put forward by the hon. member for Brampton Centre gives me pause for reflection on a very serious issue. I am talking, of course, about genocide and other crimes against humanity that we should never forget, let alone pretend that they never happened.

As members know, these last few years, Bloc Quebecois members have supported every measure to underline and commemorate tragic events where men have shown how inhumane and violent they can be at times. We have stood up against those who tried to wipe out all memories of these tragedies.

Let me remind my hon. colleagues that, in this House, in 1996 to be exact, the Liberal government toned down a motion concerning the Armenian genocide by dropping the word genocide and replacing it with the term tragic event.

That same year, the Minister for International Cooperation pressured the mayor of Montreal to abandon his plans to erect a monument to the victims of the Armenian genocide. Again, the minister would have preferred tragic event instead of the term genocide.

At the time, I rose in the House to remind my colleagues that toning down wordings in such a context is tantamount to confirming that the final step in a genocide is to attempt, after the fact ,to deny its very existence, or at the very least to minimize its importance. That is what is called selective memory.

For the Bloc Quebecois, genocide and all other crimes against humanity must not be hushed up. There are lessons to be learned from them. Also, the words used to describe these barbaric acts must not be used as a pretext to trivialize unspeakable acts.

Let us not forget that our sense of history and our collective memory will keep alive the memory of humanity's past.

The contents of Bill C-224, which we are now debating, are pretty clearly defined in the title, an act to establish by the beginning of the twenty-first century an exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization to recognize the crimes against humanity as defined by the United Nations that have been perpetrated during the twentieth century.

My colleagues in the Bloc Quebecois and myself will not oppose initiatives aimed at reminding people of past errors so they will ever occur again.

Having worked in education, I find it essential that our young people have a better knowledge of all these tragic mistakes and all these instances of genocide.

Therefore, we are interested in the idea of informing the public about genocide and other crimes against humanity through an exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization.

It could be an interesting tool for teaching the young and the not so young.

But the teaching of history is also important, because not all Quebecers and Canadians have a chance to visit museums.

So that future generations recall these human tragedies, maybe they could be included in the curricula of our history courses. This would be another good way of ensuring that these events live on in our collective memory.

We therefore see the debate on the bill introduced by the member for Brampton Centre as a unique opportunity to recall the growing concerns of Quebecers and Canadians with respect to major crimes against humanity.

However, it is not for the Bloc Quebecois to impose themes or exhibit material on museums. It is not for politicians in this House to decide these matters.

We are here today to raise a concern that is important to the constituents we represent and to express a wish and support for a future exhibit. It is from this perspective that we feel that Bill C-224 is well-intentioned and that we support it in principle, but we feel that the Canadian Museum of Civilization should have full latitude to make any decisions.

As parliamentarians, our responsibility goes beyond supporting the idea of an exhibit on genocides and crimes against humanity. For example, we know that Canada was and still is a haven for too many people responsible for war crimes or crimes against humanity.

The Bloc Quebecois has supported measures to amend the Criminal Code to allow the removal and expulsion of war criminals. We are still waiting for another amendment to the Criminal Code that would allow us to judge these people here.

This is a concrete measure that the government and parliamentarians will have to adopt some day if they are serious about learning from the past.

Unfortunately, many genocides and crimes against humanity were committed during the 20th century. We are most familiar with the plight of Armenians, the Holocaust and, more recently, the atrocities in Cambodia, Rwanda, Burundi, East Timor, Bosnia or Kosovo, to name but a few.

For people to remember, for our collective memory to remain intact, for reconciliation to be possible among people, society must remember its epic moments, but also its darkest ones.

It is in the recognition of the peoples' right to exist that justice and freedom take on their full meaning. Is justice not freedom in action?

[Wendy Lill, NDP, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise today and speak to this important Bill C-224, an act which would direct the creation of a genocide exhibit at the Canadian Museum of Civilization.

I would like to start my remarks by thanking the hon. member for Brampton Centre for bringing this important matter before the House. I would like to thank also the hundreds of Canadians who have expressed opinions to members of parliament through cards and especially through thoughtful letters which many of us have received from national organizations on this matter. It is clear that this matter has received a lot of thought from a lot of Canadians.

Among New Democrats there is no dispute that our society should honour the victims of all crimes against humanity, no matter when and where in the world this has occurred. We know we must increase our efforts to educate our children and to remember those who have fallen to genocide and encourage all of the national institutions dedicated to providing such assistance to fulfil this important mandate.

I am proud to be part of a political movement which has always stood up for domestic and international human rights, even when such stands were not particularly popular. The CCF, the forerunner to the NDP, spoke out against the racist immigration policies of previous Canadian governments, such as the Chinese head tax and the confinement of Japanese Canadians in the second world war.

In 1970 the NDP was the only voice in the House of Commons to question the suspension of human rights by the government under the War Measures Act. NDP policy has always called for the respect of human rights as the primary consideration in our foreign policy. On the whole, and there are exceptions which I will not get into in this debate, Canada is now seen as a country which supports human rights and which fosters peace by most other countries and by most of the world's people.

Many associate the word genocide with places far from Canada. But we have our dark moments in our history, moments which many try to forget, moments when our forefathers and foremothers committed massive human rights abuses, which I would define as crimes against humanity. I specifically think of the shameful slave trade which took place 200 years ago in Halifax or of the barbaric actions taken by colonial powers against our aboriginal populations from coast to coast to coast.

We should never forget the practices of slaughtering the Beothuk in Newfoundland or the reallocation of the Inuit, the destruction of the Potlatch or the policy of residential schools. These practices were also a form of genocide.

These are things which we must recognize as part of our history and which Canadians should be educated about by our national institutions devoted to remembering the victims of crimes against humanity.

Sadly, it is easy to develop a list of all those who have been victims of genocide. Our century has been the most barbaric in history. As we have developed as a civilization with technological and scientific leaps, we have seen individuals, groups and whole societies use that technology to find better ways to kill their neighbours. The Holocaust and the famine in Ukraine are but two examples of how modern methods which were meant to raise our standard of living have been used to mass murder men, women and children.

I believe it would be of benefit to Canada to have a national institution which recognizes these facts. I believe that we need to educate our next generation on how these evils occur. We need a showcase which allows Canadians to confront our past both as Canadians and as citizens of the world. We need a place to mourn the millions who have died. We need a place where we can learn from our history and so that it cannot be repeated.

Is Bill C-224 the best way to recognize the gravity of the subject? I want to raise two questions on this issue. First, should parliament dictate to a national museum the content of an exhibit? That issue has already been raised tonight in the House. Is a gallery at the current Museum of Civilization the most appropriate national forum for this subject?

On the first question, I would have to answer with a firm no. Politicians should not get directly involved in telling museum directors and especially curators how to do their business. Politicians have a responsibility to provide a framework for appropriate expressions of our heritage. The result has been the Museums Act which establishes our national museums and our national art gallery, and gives them arm's length government structures and states their goals in law. These institutions report back to parliament on how they are meeting their goals and account for their expenditures of public funds.

This is our tradition. That is the way it should work. But if parliament says to a museum “Above and beyond your current responsibilities you must have the following specific exhibit with specific content objectives and meeting the specific following time line”, which is what clause 2 of Bill C-224 says, I have a real problem with that. If this passes, then the tradition of the arm's length relationship with a national heritage agency is broken, and I do have a problem with that. I do not want politicians telling cultural agencies what art is or what history is. That would be a danger.

I have a problem with the current bill based on the wording in clause 2 which breaks the arm's length relationship between parliament and the Canadian Museum of Civilization.

Is an exhibit at the museum of civilization the most appropriate forum? I am proposing an alternative approach. Why not ask the government to establish a genocide museum under the current structure of the Museums Act.

A separate institution would allow for the kind of meaningful discussion which I know would be required to have the best institution of this kind in the world. Many views exist on what form a museum dedicated to victims of genocide should take. I am aware that discussions have taken place between various parties, notably the groups proposing an institution, to remember the Holocaust and others in an appropriate forum.

I wish all concerned success since I know that no group is approaching this debate with an agenda of exclusion. The purpose of a stand-alone museum could be, as is set out in Bill C-224, to recognize the victims of crimes against humanity. A separate institution would have a permanence, something that an exhibit at the museum of civilization may not have.

A separate institution would allow for a special place for those who go not only to learn, but for those who go to remember and to mourn.

I am optimistic about this as a possibility, partly based on the work done by the member for Brampton Centre. Many of the groups which have expressed support for the gallery included in the bill have also expressed support for a separate institution. When the member for Brampton Centre asked the question of the Minister of Canadian Heritage about this matter on November 18 of this year, she stood in her place and encouraged all MPs to support the initiative.

To me this is a clear signal that the government is open to a proposal for a stand-alone institution. In the end, the success of an exhibit, gallery or separate institution would be based on adequate funding from the government.

Having a proposal from the government would guarantee that the resource question has been dealt with. I believe that having such an institution will not break the bank. I remind members that the total cost of all our national museums and galleries is less than $4 per capita. I think it is a bargain, quite frankly.

It should be noted that more Canadians visit museums than attend professional sports events every year. The museum of civilization and its affiliate museum, the war museum, received over one and a half million visits last year alone. While all such institutions cost money, they are used and they are valued by Canadians.

In closing, I regret not being able to support Bill C-224 because of how it breaches the arm's length relationship which I believe parliament should maintain for our cultural institutions or agencies, but I am proud to add my voice to those calling on the government to create a museum which can deal with this important matter.

[Mark Muise, Progressive Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I consider it a privilege to rise before the House to debate the merits of Bill C-224, an act to establish an exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization in recognition of the crimes against humanity, as defined by the United Nations, that have been perpetrated during the 20th century.

I congratulate my hon. colleague for Brampton Centre for having the courage to introduce such an important piece of legislation. I say courage because there remains considerable controversy, whether some of the killings that are being characterized as crimes against humanity were somehow justified as acts of war.

I suspect that all parliamentarians have received significant amounts of correspondence in response to the member for Brampton Centre's private member's bill.

I can honestly say that each day I receive a number of letters or postcards from fellow Canadians showing their strong views about the prospects of Canada establishing an all encompassing Canadian genocide museum.

I thank each and every one of those Canadians who have taken the time to share their personal experiences with me. Reading about some of their terrible experiences has helped me develop a greater understanding and deeper sense of appreciation for this wonderful country in which we live.

I suspect that most Canadians who have the good fortune of being born in a country such as Canada are guilty of taking our freedom for granted.

Our heroes who fought during the first and second world wars and those who participated in the Boer and Korean wars, along with the many peacekeepers who have represented us with honour throughout the hot spots in the world, would have a different perspective about what it means to live in a free and democratic society.

In an ideal world, all people are created equal and are free to live and work where they choose and free to practise their own religion without fear of persecution. Unfortunately, history has shown that this simply is not the case.

History is riddled with extraordinary acts of cruelty against mankind. Crimes against humanity have been chronicled almost since the beginning of time. It is because of this long history of treachery that I question whether an exhibition of crimes against humanity that is limited to the 20th century is sufficient.

There are many examples of genocides or crimes against humanity which have had a direct impact on the evolution of Canadian society. To ignore some of them by restricting the exhibit to events that happened in the 20th century would be committing a huge disservice to our young Canadians. Our youth should be exposed to the various interpretations of history so that they can develop a broader perspective and a better understanding of events that have shaped the social fabric of this country.

Most Canadians know about the deportation of the Acadians that occurred in 1755. This was a tragic event in Canadian history. During the deportation, most Acadians were put on boats and sent to the United States. A lot of them ended up in Louisiana.

Thousands of Acadians lost their lives in this tragedy. The survivors tried unsuccessfully to hook up again with their families. Many Acadians were able to flee to New-Brunswick and Quebec to avoid the fate of their fellow citizens.

It took several centuries for Acadians to recover from this tragedy. Some would argue that we are still suffering.

Historians do not all agree about this deportation. Was it a war against the Acadians or an ethnic cleansing operation? This, I guess, depends on the viewpoint of the historian. Nevertheless, no one can deny that this tragedy happened and that the measures taken by Great-Britain had some serious consequences.

A better understanding of what happened to our Acadian people can help Canadians to understand the interesting dynamics that have helped to shape our individual communities. Surviving these crimes against humanity has created a special bond among our people. It has given us cause to unite and strengthen our unique cultural heritage. Understanding the tragedy of the 1755 deportation can help us better appreciate the human suffering of more recent examples of crimes against humanity.

On October 5, 1998 a redress monument was erected in the city of Montreal by the Armenian community. It erected this monument on behalf of all victims of genocide in the 20th century. This is a very significant achievement considering the extensive persecution that was carried out against the Armenian community. By recognizing not only its own tragedy but also the many acts of genocide committed in the world, the Armenian community has helped to focus our attention on this ongoing tragedy. In a sense this act of compassion may help with the healing process.

An all-encompassing genocide exhibit at the Canadian Museum of Civilization has been proposed by the hon. member for Brampton Centre. It could be a very useful tool in helping Canadians to learn more about the terrible acts of terror we perpetrated against our fellow human beings. Perhaps such exhibits might help the world come to grips with these atrocities.

I cannot stress strongly enough the notion that such an exhibit must be all-encompassing. Where disagreement threatens to blow up into full-fledged controversy, it is important that both sides of a conflict be allowed to present their different perspectives on events surrounding a charge of genocide.

Crimes against humanity are not a new phenomenon. Examples of genocide can be traced to a time before the birth of Jesus Christ. Sadly, history is saddled with examples of acts of genocide. Crimes against humanity have been committed on religious, racial and political grounds, yet the only common denominator continues to be the extermination of millions of innocent men, women and children.

I mentioned the Armenians earlier because they were the victims of persecution in the early 1900s when millions were reportedly massacred during the first world war. Although some argue that they were victims of war and not genocide, it is generally acknowledged by many historians that millions of Armenians were indeed the victims of genocide. Even to this day, the Armenian people continue to be the target of the repressive government of Saddam Hussein.

The Ukrainian people are another example of a people who suffered tremendous persecution, in particular during the early 1930s. Josef Stalin created a state-generated famine that resulted in the starvation deaths of millions of Ukrainians. These people died needlessly when there was food available to save them. They were also victims of Hitler's ethnic cleansing policies that most people associate mainly with the Jewish people.

I think most people are aware of the Holocaust and the notorious death camps of the second world war in which over six million Jews perished. These Jews were shipped from across Europe in order to be systematically slaughtered in those death camps. Perhaps ignored by history is the plight of the Gypsies and Ukrainians during this particular onslaught on humanity.

The world was said to be appalled by this unprecedented attack against humanity. At the time it was said that such a horror could never happen again. We all know that history has an unfortunate way of repeating itself. Many acts of genocide have occurred since the second world war and, unfortunately, many acts of genocide continue today.

We have examples of genocide in Cambodia where from 1975 to 1979, between two million and four million people were killed by the Khmer Rouge simply for disagreeing with the regime. More recently in 1994, we watched apathetically as the Hutus in Rwanda massacred hundreds of thousands of Tutsis. We have the ethnic cleansing that was carried out in Bosnia-Herzegovina during the wars of the former Yugoslavia. Even today, we are receiving word of crimes against humanity in Sudan.

I am standing here reciting atrocities as if they were score cards, yet we are talking about the death and destruction of millions of our fellow human beings. Is it not disgusting how mankind has persecuted their fellow human beings? Perhaps it is easier to talk about atrocities because we have not witnessed them ourselves. I am afraid to consider that we are being desensitized by the constant reports of atrocities.

If it is indeed the case, as I do fear, then I think it is important that we support the member for Brampton Centre, along with the millions of people who are victims of crime against humanity. Let us create this exhibit in the Canadian Museum of Civilization. Perhaps by seeing this horror for ourselves, we might be more supportive in our efforts to try and put an end to these atrocities worldwide.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

May I have some indication of how many members intend to speak on this motion? I know there are two, the members for Lac-Saint-Louis and Vancouver Kingsway. We have five minutes for the sponsor of the bill. There are about 15 minutes left, so that if the hon. member for Vancouver Kingsway would keep her remarks to about seven minutes, then we could do the same privilege for the member for Lac-Saint-Louis, and still get the finishing remarks in.

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for Brampton Centre for introducing Bill C-224 as a recognition of crimes against humanity.

We all know that every murder destroys a measure of human dignity. Atrocities against humanity have a long and sad history. I will cite a few incidents of inhumanity.

One of the earliest examples are the horrors that were perpetrated by the ancient Romans when they fought and destroyed Carthage. In the 1930s Stalin began his collectivization programs in Ukraine. The result was mass starvation of untold numbers of Ukrainians, an atrocity that community even today is struggling to deal with.

In 1931 to 1945 historians estimate Japanese soldiers slaughtered 35 million Chinese during the Japanese invasion of China.

In 1975 the Cambodian people began a terrifying period of their history as the Khmer Rouge took over. The legacy of that regime is known as the killing fields. Over the subsequent four years, an estimated 1.5 to 2 million Cambodian people were murdered or died as the result of the reorganization implemented by the Khmer Rouge.

In 1994 attention slowly focused on Rwanda as news of a massacre emerged from the nation. Those atrocities left communities shattered, families broken and left thousands struggling for survival. According to statistics from the Rwandan Ministry of Home Affairs, obtained from the preliminary census of the vulnerable groups, the number of vulnerable because of genocide stood at 145,881 widows, 49,299 without shelter and 39,727 orphans. The physically and mentally handicapped totalled 4,619.

As recently as last week, stories from East Timor tell of the discovery of mass graves; priests, women and children shot or stabbed to death and buried in an effort to conceal the evidence.

We must stop those senseless crimes against humanity by recalling history so that our children may learn from our past mistakes.

I congratulate the hon. member for Brampton Centre. I fully support Bill C-224, the Recognition of Crimes Against Humanity Act. I would encourage other hon. members to do the same.

[Clifford Lincoln, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague, the hon. member, for expressing his views on the commemoration of crimes against humanity committed during this century.

There are a number of ways to commemorate such phenomenal violations of human rights and security. A museum exhibition would be one of them. There are certainly other ways.

We are about to enter the 21st century. The time has come to take a moment to reflect on the century that is coming to an end. As my colleague who presented this bill said so eloquently, the 20th century alone is enough to show, through too many examples, man's inhumanity to man.

I think there are lessons to be learned from the past. Canada stands as a role model for the rest of the world. Everybody here can find order and good government. People can co-exist in harmony with intercultural understanding and sharing and with respect for differences.

Individuals from diverse backgrounds make up our country and we have learned to respect one another's culture, religion, race and ethnic origin. We are, therefore, sensitive to the pain of those Canadians who may at one time have been victimized by the inhumanity of war, or by bigotry and oppression.

Our history records that we have made errors of our own. Canadians wish those moments had never happened. We wish we could rewrite history but unfortunately we cannot. However we can and must learn from the past.

If we are to learn from the past, if we are to hope that one day humankind can live together in peace and respect, we must always be mindful of the cruelty of tyranny, of the massacres of peoples, and of the incarceration, degradation and inhumanity that man has wrought on his fellow human beings.

We must all be aware of the extent of the atrocious crimes against humanity which have taken place through history. We will be better able to learn from the past if we remember the crimes against humanity which are still fresh in our memories and which are the sorry legacy of the 20th century.

The voice of Canada is a voice for peace. Canada was the first country to suggest the use of peace keeping forces and today we are keeping the peace in many countries around the world.

On the eve of the 21st century, Canada is well placed to show the way into a safer and more peaceful world. In the last throne speech, the government promised to put a greater emphasis on human security in its foreign policy, and help international bodies make progress on the global issue of human security.

One is better able to understand the significance of this promise when one is aware of the injustices which have threatened human security during this century and learns from these experiences.

We strongly believe that on the world stage we as Canadians can influence change. Protection from crimes against humanity can best be gained through ensuring that all countries and their peoples have a profound respect for and understanding of the universal declaration of human rights.

Human rights are intrinsic to a rich and fulfilled life. The recent 50th anniversary of the adoption of the universal declaration of human rights by the United Nations General Assembly gave Canadians a superb opportunity to reflect on how human rights contribute to the quality of life in Canada.

International and Canadian organizations keep on looking for solutions to the ongoing problems of human rights violations, and to problems that have just been identified as such.

The establishment of an International Criminal Tribunal is only one of the many current initiatives taken by Canada and the international community to deal with these problems.

Over the years Canada has established a legislative and policy framework that defines the rights as well as the responsibilities of its citizens. Every jurisdiction in Canada has enforceable human rights legislation designed to combat discrimination in areas such as employment, accommodation, and the provision of goods and services.

However legislation alone does not guarantee de facto civil and political rights in the country. It must be combined with the supportive infrastructure of good public policy and programs that seek partnership with and are informed by civil society through NGOs, the private sector and our institutions.

In conclusion, I emphasize the importance of learning about the tragedy of crimes against humanity in the 20th century and understanding the lessons of the past. By ensuring that the lessons are well understood, we will be able to build a better society for future generations of Canadians. Because of this I would like to thank my colleague for the opportunity he has given us today to debate the issue.

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the last parliament the House passed a unanimous resolution calling for the week of April 20 to April 27 every year to be recognized as the week of man's inhumanity to his fellow man. The motion was accepted on the occasion of the 81st anniversary of the Armenian genocide.

In the spirit of that co-operation, I would like to propose the following to the House. I ask for unanimous consent of the House that Bill C-224, the recognition of crimes against humanity act, be made a votable item.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. member for Brampton Centre has requested unanimous consent of the House to make this motion a votable item. Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to hear that. I ask for unanimous consent of the House to instruct the subcommittee on Private Members' Business of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs to reconsider the votable status of Bill C-224, the recognition of crimes against humanity act, and that the bill remain on the order of precedence until the committee reports on the bill.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

Is there unanimous consent of the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.