Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1999

Criminal Code

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

You could be right, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure where the canned speech came from, but I know where the glossy print came from. That came from the office of the Minister of Justice.

That is what we have managed to get out of this minister for a number of years, glossy print, more print, more studies, more of this and more of that. Then we get to hear some real common sense speeches, such as “By golly, when I was 15 I had a lot of sense. I could make good decisions about whether I should have sex or not. Things are different now and we live in a different age”. I find this whole thing disgusting.

Mr. Speaker, put down your paper. I am going to tell you a story and I am sure you will like it.

Once upon a time there was a fellow who was a principal of a school. Early one morning in 1990 the principal got a call from a parent, saying “My 15 year old daughter did not come home all weekend. We are worried sick. We would like to know where she is. We have asked the police to do something. They won't do anything. They have no power to do anything because there is no evidence that there was any wrongdoing. They say that she has probably just run away from home and will return later. Not to worry, not to fret”. There was no action they could take.

The parents were quite concerned. Friday night had gone by. Saturday night had gone by. Sunday night had gone by and the 15 year old girl had not come home. They phoned the principal to ask if he would check the school to see if she had shown up for school. The principal checked and she had not shown up for school.

The principal was a very intelligent man and in his wisdom he called together all of the classmates of this 15 year old girl and asked if any of them knew where she might be. The children said no, they did not know.

The principal felt that they knew more than they were telling him and he said “Look, folks, her parents are worried sick. There is nothing we can do except try to find this girl. If you have any idea where she is, please let me know so we can inform the parents and at least they will know she is safe and not hurt”.

They broke down and told the principal that she was in a condominium down the road and if he went there he would find the 15 year old girl. There were three fellows aged 22, 24 and 28 sharing this condominium. The principal asked the police to go to the condominium to remove the girl. He said that he was sure she was there. The police said that they could not because she was 15 and she had the authority to go there. The principal said that her parents wanted her home because they were worried about her. Nevertheless the police said that they could not do it because they did not have the authority. The principal said that he would go over and do it. The officer told him that he had better not do that unless the officer went along with him because there could be trouble.

The officer jumped in the car with the principal and they drove over to number 12. The principal knocked on the door. One of the fellows came to the door and the principal asked if the said girl was present. The answer was no. The principal in his usual forwardness said: “I'll just have a look and I'd suggest you don't bother stopping me”. That is what he said.

He shoved his way through the door and walked in, as it was described, in the midst of beer, whiskey, booze all over the place and the smell of good old pot, the happy wacky tabaccy that everybody says is so wonderful nowadays. In this deplorable situation he wandered around and he could not find her until he went into the basement. He found the girl lying in a bed in an almost passed out, nearly sleeping state. In the principal's efforts to wake her, she awoke and recognized him evidently. He told her that she had exactly three minutes to get up and get her clothes on, that she was coming with him. In her shocked state, that the principal would dare do this kind of a thing, she asked the principal to leave the room and said that she would be up in a very short time. He went back upstairs and waited by the door for her to come out of the basement.

While he was standing there the other two fellows insisted that he should leave because he had no permission to be there. The principal said that he was staying until the girl would come with him. He suggested strongly that they not try to interfere with this until it was done.

She came up, he grabbed her by the arm, led her out the door, put her in the back seat of his car and with he and the officer in the front they drove off. He proceeded to take her home because she was in no state to go to school. She did not want to go home. She screamed and yelled at the principal not to take her home. The principal told her to be quiet and said that was where she was going.

Her parents greeted the car at the entrance and were overjoyed that the girl was at least safe. They asked her to come in and she told her parents there was no way she was coming into that place, that she did not have to come in. The father grabbed the girl and said “Yes, you're coming in here. You're going to come into this house”. Then the fight was on and there was yelling and screaming. The principal wished the parents good luck and told them when they got the girl straightened up to please bring her back to school, that he would have a talk with her along with some counselling and she could get some help.

When the principal drove away from the school, the officer who had been keeping notes informed the principal that there could be 11 charges laid in this incident. Ten of them would be against the principal and the other would be against the parent. The principal asked, “What about these loco yokels who had a young girl in their place and were feeding her booze? Isn't there anything like contributing any more? Doesn't that happen? Is that supposed to be okay?” The police officer told the principal, believe it or not, that under the charter of rights and freedoms all of these things are possible because it has been declared in some court.

The principal became outraged. He said that one day, if he could do it, he would go to the House of Commons, become a member and try to put an end to those kinds of situations. Why are they happening? Mr. Speaker, you are looking at that principal today.

That was a personal experience that I went through. The members can laugh. The member from the Bloc can laugh because he thinks it is funny that three 20 some year old people molested this 15 year old girl and it is all okay because she gave her consent. Only brainless people would laugh. Let us make that perfectly clear. Only a gutless government would allow these kinds of things to continue in our society for years and years without trying to do something about it.

I have grandchildren growing up. I do not want my grandchildren to grow up in a society with such flowery attitudes that everything is okay. Give some authority back to the parents. Give some authority back to the schools. Let these kids be well looked after and make it perfectly clear that their lives are in the hands of their parents and give the parents the authority to do it. Stop this silly idea that the wonderful charter of rights can allow it to happen.

I have a message for the member for Mississauga West. This is for him. You are right, sir. I have asked for amendments to the charter, to do something with a charter that allows this kind of thing to go on and on until it is worse and worse, where we have 11 and 12 year old kids being picked up on the streets because of prostitution. It has to stop.

If this government has any gumption, if those members over there have any good sense in their brains at all, they will accept what I am about to propose.

I ask for unanimous consent immediately—and the member can laugh his heart out and I will make sure he has a real good laugh—because I ask for unanimous consent, if anyone has the courage, that we make this bill votable.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent that the bill be votable?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is tragic that we did not get unanimous consent to make this bill votable.

I think we will make a note of the fact that the government specifically would not agree to a simple suggestion to make this bill that would protect 14 year olds and those under 16 a votable bill.

I know I only have a few minutes to speak because I want to leave time for the mover of the motion to be able to conclude. It strikes me as amazing that in a day and age when we are so aware of the health risks that are associated with sexual activity, it is like Russian roulette. We had here on the Hill a few days ago a big display on the impact of AIDS and sexual diseases and how they are killing millions of people in Africa and around the world.

We insist that our youth take driver education before they can drive a car. We do not let them vote until they are 18. Yet we will let them play Russian roulette with older men that would entice a 14 or 15 year old girl into sexual activity. It is unbelievable.

Here we have a bill on the floor. It is a horrendous gauntlet that a private member's bill has to run to even get to the floor. I applaud the hon. member for Calgary Northeast for bringing it forward.

We just had an impassioned speech about a life that was being destroyed and was saved by a principal who was courageous enough to get the girl out of that.

Let us make the change. Let us at least vote on it. The government says no. That is unbelievable. That is what we are faced with here in the House. That is why this party is here. We have been so frustrated with that kind of garbage that people left their normal work life and said, “Let's go down there and see what we can do about it”, as my hon. colleague just said.

Perhaps the government members have reconsidered. Perhaps it is time to think about it again. Let us try it again.

I would like to seek unanimous consent of the House to make this bill votable.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent to make the bill votable?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

When the hon. member for Calgary Northeast speaks he will close the debate.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to thank the members of this House who support this bill, that have a concern for the future of many young people, who made it very clear that they have strong desires to see some changes in the law which would enable the protection of our children, or our youngsters.

I would like to thank the member for Wild Rose for having the courage to stand up and actually make it an important issue, supporting the parents in his area where he was the principal of a school and who brought a youngster—I do not know the outcome of that particular story—into the fold of their home where there was protection and not in the home of some sexual predator that wanted to prey on her because of her age.

I would also like to thank the member for Calgary Centre who has had concerns about our youngsters in this country for a long time, which is one of the reasons he sits in parliament. I remember the day he was elected. He was elected because he had these concerns about how our laws were impacting on the family and family issues, and children are part of the family.

I want to thank those members and the member from Nova Scotia for supporting this endeavour, Bill C-209.

Unfortunately, on the government side a lot of red herrings were thrown out saying that it is going to be difficult to pass this kind of legislation because so many other things will impact on it in such a way that it is going to be more negative than it is positive. That is a defeatist attitude from the very beginning. It is unfortunate the parliamentary secretary had to make such comments because those are in fact red herrings. All one has to do is ask any parent in this country whether they would want some good sound legislation to protect their children and they would say yes.

Who else should you consult other than the parents or grandparents of those children? I do not know of anybody else. Social services? The Elizabeth Fry Society? Who? No, it has to come back to the family, to the parents. They are the most concerned. They give the reasons why their children should be protected and it is up to us as legislators to make sure that does happen.

For three years I have fought for the bill and for those it would affect most, the police. It would have a direct affect on how the police handle situations. They need more authority as the member for Wild Rose clearly pointed out. They need the authority to walk into a place and take children out who are being sexually abused.

I ran across the same thing when I was a police officer. As a police officer I stuck my neck out way beyond probably where it should have been to do the very same thing that the member for Wild Rose spoke of because all of a sudden the charter, a wonderful charter, protects those who are being abusers. It should it be the other way around.

Certainly, there would be an impact on the courts. I think the courts should be able to decree that we will place that child back in the home. That is where he or she belongs and it should be enforced. The unfortunate part of it is the opposite is actually happening. Nobody wants to get involved. Nobody wants to stick their neck out to protect somebody that is innocent. It is very unfortunate.

I believe our laws on sexual consent must be strengthened so that the police no longer are powerless to take action against those who exploit our children for their own sexual gratification.

For the sake of these children, I appeal to the members of the House to really give the bill another look. It will come up again and when it does I ask members to give it their full consent so that ultimately we can protect the young and vulnerable in our society from the predators in our society.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The time for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired and the order is dropped from the order paper.

It being 6.30 p.m., the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.30 p.m.)