Debates of Dec. 2nd, 1999

World Trade Organization

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary gave a very good answer. We are very preoccupied with the environment, labour conditions and so on. It is a wide negotiation.

I know the hon. leader of the New Democratic Party is not weak-kneed at all. Yesterday she took eight days to have a position on the big question on the referendum.

Yesterday she made a big statement, not in the House, in which she claimed that all New Democratic Party governments were on her side in that regard. Perhaps she should call Manitoba and Saskatchewan before getting up next time.

Education

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, since 1992 there has been a 44% reduction in transfer payments to the provinces for post-secondary education. The student debtload has increased 130% since 1982 and tuition fees have gone up 126%.

Can the minister tell us when post-secondary education is going to be accessible to all Canadians, rich and poor?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member must be aware that in the 1998 budget, the opportunities budget, the government spent in excess of $7 billion to guarantee access to knowledge, including the millennium scholarships, the 17% credit on student loans, and the $3,000 grant to single parents to enable them to go back to school.

It is our intention in future budgets to assist students, to assist—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Madawaska—Restigouche.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, young Canadians often find themselves in a catch-22 situation at the beginning of their careers with no experience, no jobs; no jobs, no experience.

Older Canadians could be in the same position at the end of their careers if they have not kept up with new technologies. We cannot stress enough the importance of having training available for both groups. The average monthly number of beneficiaries for training fell from 68,000 in 1995 to 31,000 in 1999.

Can the minister tell us why this is happening, doing less for youth and doing less for older workers?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite the opposite. What we understand on this side is that when it comes to ensuring that Canadians have jobs, it takes more than just employment insurance benefits.

That is why we are investing in Youth Service Canada. That is why we are investing in youth internships. That is why we are investing in the permanent youth employment strategy and the Canada opportunities strategy. That is why we have an agreement with the provinces to focus on the issues facing older workers.

National Unity

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning the Reform Party once again laid out clear rules for any future referendum and the consequences of a yes vote. We also laid out a clear and comprehensive plan to make the federation work better on behalf of all Canadians.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party laid out a clear plan for a referendum and the consequences of a yes vote, but we also laid out a clear and comprehensive plan to make the federation work better on behalf of all Canadians. We believe the government should be spending more of its time and more of its energy on more creativity and positive solutions that would make the federation work better on behalf of all Canadians.

This morning we once again put forward a clear, comprehensive plan which we think would make Canada work better. We have tabled our plan. Would the Prime Minister table his?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I smile today when I see the Reform Party. Last week they were giving me hell because I stood for Canada. After that they saw a poll in western Canada, and suddenly there was a big flip-flop. How can we take them seriously?

Of course we will have a plan, but at least our plan has been studied. We are moving and there are a lot of people coming on side. For example, a great parliamentarian in St. John's, Newfoundland, John Crosbie, said “I agree entirely with Jean Chrétien”.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure what he said, but I am quite sure that he did not bring any clarity to the question, which is what we are trying to get at today.

Again today the Prime Minister says that he does not know what a clear question should be on a referendum. He does not know what a clear majority should be. He is not too sure about the timing of any future legislation. If he is trying to bring clarity to the situation, the Prime Minister is doing a very poor job.

If he wants to bring forward something called, say, a new Canada act, something to make Canada work better, I can send him a copy. It is available any time.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have been working since 1993. In our red book we said that the best way to have the federation working well is to have good government, government that deals with the problems of all citizens. We have balanced the books. We are cutting taxes. We are putting money toward research and development, for innovation, for medical research. We have given money to the students. Now we are working on a children's agenda. This is the type of government and programs that the people of Canada are looking for, not a phony program like the one of the Reform Party.

Air Transportation Industry

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, up until August 13, when the Minister of Transport made a commitment to the Onex bid to acquire Canadian International Airlines and Air Canada, InterCanadian was completely profitable. Since that time, there has been a dramatic 20% drop in reservations with InterCanadian.

Is the minister not demonstrating a considerable lack of knowledge of the issues when he tells this House that InterCanadian's difficulties are linked to its acquisition of Air Atlantic?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. member is in error in his question when he refers to the profitability of InterCanadian.

The Government of Canada is, however, keeping close tabs on the InterCanadian situation, and we are aware that the company is trying to make arrangements with its creditors, which might enable it to resume operations next week.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the problems of InterCanadian are directly related to his mishandling of the Onex bid to acquire Air Canada and Canadian Airlines, does the Minister of Transport not have a responsibility to step in now in order to save the 900 jobs his incompetence has jeopardized?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, what I find amusing in all of this, is that the Bloc Quebecois has been systematically against any form of assistance to Canadian Airlines right from the start, but now this same party is demanding that the government step in to deal with the InterCanadian situation. This is a ridiculous state of affairs.

Trade

[Rick Casson, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, instead of going to bat for our beleaguered Canadian farmers, the international trade minister, to the applause of the Prime Minister, is now spending his time chairing the working group on developing countries. Other countries have made it crystal clear that the reduction of agricultural subsidies is their primary goal and are insisting that they be on the table. Instead of the trade minister spending his time promoting his personal agenda, why is the Prime Minister not insisting that he show some intestinal fortitude and fight for our farmers?

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, it is somewhat surprising that the hon. member's question is inconsistent with his party's position. How can he on the one hand say that the Government of Canada should be giving more aid to western Canadian farmers when on the other hand his party is asking us to let go of all the barriers that protect some of the farmers in eastern Canada?

This party stands for all Canadian farmers and we will continue to do that around the international trade table.

[Rick Casson, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that party's aid package to western Canadian farmers is working so well that its agriculture minister said he would have 100% of the money to Canadian farmers by Christmas, but only 17% of that money has been delivered. Canadian farmers in western Canada are hurting, and they are hurting bad. That kind of answer is irresponsible. Where is the Prime Minister when my question was directed to him?

Other countries have made it crystal clear that they are going to stand for their farmers. Why is our trade minister not doing it for our guys?

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian government and the Minister for International Trade are in the forefront on this issue in trying to get the Europeans and the Americans to get rid of their export subsidies. It is those export subsidies which are hurting Canadian farmers.

Why is it that his party is the only party not supporting the united front of all farmers across this country which supports the position of the Canadian government at the WTO? Why is his party the only party not supporting that united front?

Minister Of International Trade

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in connection with the very serious allegations against the Minister for International Trade, the chief electoral officer responded, on the content of his election report, that the time frame was prescribed and that he could not act on the complaint lodged with him.

Given the seriousness of the allegations, does the Prime Minister plan to hide behind this restrictive interpretation of the Canada Elections Act in order to keep his Minister for International Trade?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the interpretation is restrictive. I think the chief electoral officer has the confidence of the House as to his work practices. I hope the member is not saying otherwise.

In the meantime, the member knows as I do that this is an allegation by one individual against another in a divorce case. The minister is not accused.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this looks oddly like the principle of no evil seen, no evil done.

Could the Prime Minister tell us whether he referred to his ethics counsellor in making his decision to keep his Minister for International Trade on, since the minister would not have been caught in time under the time frame set out in the Canada Elections Act?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has just made a rather serious accusation. He has said the minister was “not caught in time”, intimating that the minister was already guilty.

This is a gratuitous allegation against an hon. member of this House and cabinet minister, and I do not think the member opposite should make allegations and especially accusations of this nature against one of his colleagues.