Debates of Feb. 5th, 1999

Social Union

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the social union framework reached by Ottawa and the nine provinces, the federal government denied the right to opt out in the case of Canada-wide initiatives involving transfers to individuals and organizations, such as the millennium scholarship.

My question is for the Minister of Justice, who is responsible for this. Are we to understand that this formula, which they themselves describe as innovative, represents for them the way of the future and that the millennium scholarships are only the first of many direct interventions by the federal government in the areas of education, health care and social programs?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is entirely legal for the Government of Canada to spend money for the benefit of Canadian citizens.

For the first time in the history of this federation, and probably of most federations, a federal government is committed to consulting the provincial governments significantly before acting, to give them prior notice and to listen to their point of view, so that it will be possible to work jointly to the benefit of Canadians. That is modern federalism.

What is not modern federalism, is pulling back and saying “What we want is to opt out tomorrow and separate the next day”.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, among the sticking points between Quebec and the signatories is the matter of interprovincial mobility.

For example, in the area of education, Canadians studying in Quebec universities pay higher tuition fees than students from Quebec. This policy is criticized outside Quebec, even though Canadian students in fact pay lower tuition fees in Quebec than they would in their own province.

Are we to understand that, in the future, the federal government will attack Quebec's policy of differential tuition fees on the basis of this agreement?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the member has not read the agreement, of course, because it provides that, in the case of potential negative effects of interprovincial barriers, a reasonability test will be given. If the barrier is reasonable, there will be no reason to eliminate it.

I would add one thing on the federal spending power. The province benefiting most from that spending power is Quebec. First, it receives nearly half the amount of all equalization payments. Second, with the Canada social transfer, Quebeckers currently receive more support than other Canadians for their universities, hospitals and social programs, because the Government of Canada is there—

[The Speaker]

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. minister. The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

Homelessness

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding the pros and cons of the social union, it is clear that we still have a very serious social problem in this country, and that is homelessness. Just yesterday there was a man who died on a heat grate within view of the Ontario legislature.

I ask the Minister of Finance, when will there be a serious national response to the recommendations made by the task force in Toronto on homelessness? When will the federal government assume its responsibilities in this matter along with other governments to make sure that the scourge, the embarrassment, the shame of homelessness is once and for all dealt with in this country?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, homelessness is a very complex problem. We are working with the other levels of government. It is not only a federal problem, it is a national problem and all levels of government have to work together.

We participated in the Golden task force and we put in $300,000. CMHC also participated with the research branch. In December I announced an additional $50 million in RRAP, the program which will help make available more shelter and housing for the homeless people.

We are working together with our—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not all that complex. Social housing has been gutted in the country. Welfare assistance is not what it used to be. There was a time in this country when people were not homeless because they had enough money not to be homeless and they were not being kicked out of psychiatric institutions in the name of deinstitutionalization, which is another form of cost cutting.

When will the government bring all levels of government together? Let us have the equivalent of the effort that was put into the social union to return this country to the kind of country it used to be, a country where we do not have thousands and thousands of homeless Canadians.

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, we are working together and an example of this is the Golden task force. There is another conference in March in Toronto. CMHC is organizing a working group across the country. We hope that all levels of government come to a solution to this very serious problem.

Again, homelessness is not just a housing problem. Homelessness is a very complex social problem. Federal, provincial and municipal governments have to work together to solve it.

Child Pornography

[Diane St-Jacques, Progressive Conservative, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while I admit I am no legal expert, I am capable of imagining the delays that will result from the ability of crown prosecutors to appeal judgments in favour of those accused of possessing pornographic material.

In the meantime, the children of this country are unprotected, and I am not convinced that the minister would view these delays in the same way if she were in the shoes of parents whose children have fallen victim to the pornography industry.

I would therefore ask the Minister of Justice what her priority will be: children's safety or long legal wrangles?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what the hon. member is talking about.

I had officials in my department contact provincial and territorial colleagues yesterday. As I said yesterday, attorneys general across the country are enforcing child pornography provisions to the full extent of the law.

[Diane St-Jacques, Progressive Conservative, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, honestly I do not understand the government's position in this matter.

It seems to me that, in the hierarchy of values guiding the actions of legislators in any civilized country, issues relating to children rank first. The safety of this country's children is in danger, and prompt intervention by the Minister of Justice is required, for she has the power to speed up court procedures in order to reinstate the contested legislation.

I am therefore asking again: Could the Minister explain to this House how she can justify her inaction in this matter?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that this government has taken action and has taken expeditious action in partnership with the attorney general of British Columbia.

I reiterate that the child pornography sections of the Criminal Code are in force and in effect across this nation. Police are investigating, charges are being laid and prosecutions are taking place as they always have.

National Defence

[Peter Goldring, Reform, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the defence minister claimed that Canadian doctors tested and retested suspect American anthrax vaccines.

Health Canada then said this was not true and that it grudgingly only issued a permit approving the vaccine with a warning to take at your own risk.

Why did the minister say it was tested here in Canada when it was not?

[Robert Bertrand, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, our policy for pharmaceuticals is to obtain approval from Health Canada approval to import, store and distribute vaccines licensed in other countries but not in Canada before DND gives them to our personnel. This is exactly what we did last year with regard to the anthrax vaccine.

[Peter Goldring, Reform, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Health Canada did not do tests. It said to take the vaccine at our own risk.

General Kinsman, chief of defence air staff, said he would not have given the vaccine to soldiers if they knew it had expired.

Why did the minister withhold this information from his generals?

[Robert Bertrand, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, as the minister said yesterday in reference to the comments by the chief of the air defence staff and after my talk with him this morning, none of us would ever recommend anything to our Canadian troops if it was not safe.

The vaccine given to CF members in the gulf was tested for potency, safety, sterility and purity. The vaccine is safe.

Program For Older Workers Adjustment

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last Friday, on Zone Libre , the Minister of Human Resources Development finally admitted that the active measures he is now offering older workers who have been laid off, such as those of the BC mine, are not the answer to the special problems of this category of worker.

My question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Are we to understand that the minister is going to quickly throw together a new and improved version of POWA, a program that he himself cut?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the member has given me a chance to tell the House how well the government's strategy is working.

We are so concerned about unemployed workers that our strategy is to create jobs. The results for the month of January are eloquent: 87,000 new jobs in January 1999 alone.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Papineau—Saint-Denis, QC]

Half of these 87,000 full time jobs, in other words 44,000, are held by young people. The unemployment rate has dropped to 7.8% and that is the best news for unemployed Canadians today.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is no time to waste. Instead of shedding false tears over those who have been excluded, when will the minister take action and introduce an improved version of POWA to do something about the poverty and exclusion of older workers who have lost their jobs?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the best remedy against poverty and exclusion is to create jobs, to have a dynamic labour market. This is why we have changed a number of difficult approaches.

The Bloc Quebecois is living in the past. They are still back in the 1970s. They think they are the only ones with compassion. They are not, and that is why we believe that an active approach to helping people back to work is still the best. The figures back us up.

Justice

[Chuck Cadman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the B.C. supreme court ruling on possession of child pornography will be going before the B.C. court of appeal today. I commend the B.C. attorney general for getting it there.

However, it is very likely that this will go all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada and we are still faced with unacceptable delays and cases being held in limbo.

Will the minister assure Canadians that none of those currently charged will go free because of a delay and an unnecessary length to get to trial?