Debates of March 23rd, 1999

Government Services Act, 1999

[Yves Rocheleau, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I do not appreciate the comment made by the member opposite. I am wearing this to show compassion for government employees.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

This is not a point of order but a matter for debate.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Madam Speaker, that is what I am getting at. It is a good thing the grain is moving, because if it was not and we had to get them back to work to get the grain moving, that four or five minute intervention would have cost a few more thousand dollars which of course would have come out of the farmers' pockets. That is where those losses are. Farmers are the ones who lose. But of course we have to make sure this button looks good or that one looks bad or whatever. That is really important stuff.

When are we going to start doing things in this House that would guarantee some things to the farmers? They have no avenue. They do not have a union. They cannot go on strike. Every year they end up in the hole. It is getting worse and worse. A big fund was needed this year to help relieve a crisis. We would like to blame everything under the sun. We would not want to point any fingers in this place that would cause any problems. The government could have put an end to any danger in grain movement—

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I would like to know if there is quorum to continue the proceedings of the House.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

I do not see a quorum at this time.

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

We now have a quorum.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Madam Speaker, the point I have been trying to make is that it does not appear that the government in power or colleagues to my right or to my left are interested in the welfare of farmers.

The farmers' only alternative is the House of Commons. They cannot go on strike. They cannot set the price of their grain. They cannot determine who is going to buy it or how it is going to get there.

The fate of the farmers is left in the hands of everybody under the sun. They have no say about when the grain is going to flow, when money is going to come in, when they are going to have some cash to be able to put a crop in another year. All they ask for is a little peace and tranquillity so they can go into another year and keep doing their job. But there are these constant interruptions every year. Sure as clockwork it is going to happen again next year because this government will not—

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

The member opposite is using his cellular telephone. This is completely unacceptable.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

I did not witness the incident referred to, but I would ask all members to refrain from using cellular telephones in the House.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Madam Speaker, we continue to play games. The farmers are quite concerned about their fate, about what is going to happen. The separatists are quite concerned if they are going to be able to leave Canada or not. I guess right now that is the most important thing. Why in the world can we not stop for about 10 minutes and think about the fate of the farmers?

I put out a notice in my riding the other day that if the strike continued and the farmers could not move their grain and they wished to go to Vancouver—

[Maurice Godin, Bloc, Châteauguay, QC]

Madam Speaker, the interpretation is not coming through. I think something is not working.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

I will ask those concerned to make sure that the system is working properly and, if there are problems, to let us know.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Madam Speaker, I hope the public is listening to the wisdom of those people over there. We are talking about the fate of a lot of people. We are talking about the most important industry to this country which happens to be farming, whether they want to admit it or not. If putting on a floor show is the most important thing they can come up with, then I will direct everything to you, Madam Speaker. You and I can have a good conversation because I know you will listen. They do not care that much. If they did care we would not be here again debating how we can keep the grain flowing in our ports.

We are going to support this back to work legislation. There is no doubt about that. We want these things to come to an end. We want the government to sit down and learn how to fix these problems by talking to all parties, including the farmers. This does not have to happen year after year. It is costing the farmers millions of dollars. It has put a lot of young farmers right out business. I do not think any of them over there know what it is like. Maybe a couple of them would know what it is like to lose a farm. I personally know some farmers who have, and it is because of a lot of what takes place here that it happens.

If we ever have to go through this again and if farmers want to load the ships themselves, they should give me a call. I will lead them to Vancouver. We will get shovels or whatever it takes and we will load the ships ourselves if that is what it takes.

I was asked how many acres I have. I used to have quite a few but then I used to do pretty well until the government stuck its nose in. Then I joined the ranks of “you better get out of it before you go bankrupt”. That is life on a farm. Farmers have no say in their destiny. It is limited. It is all in the hands of people like Toronto lawyers who are not sure which animal produces the milk they buy in the carton.

I would like to talk about the prison guards. I visited the prison guards in my last portfolio. They begged and pleaded with the government and with corrections to do something. They were concerned about a raise. They had not had one for nine years. Now it is up to 11 years. It is one of the most dangerous occupations, one of the most responsible jobs.

The guards asked time and time again, through us because the government would not listen, that we deal with situations which needed to be dealt with in the penitentiaries. It would make their lives a little safer. It would make the lives of their wives and children at home a little safer because of threats they were getting. It was about safety measures that could be taken in the prisons to protect them from being stuck with needles which happened just the same and threats from other things.

They asked time and time again, could they please get equal treatment. A prisoner puts in a harassment charge and is dealt with in a matter of a few days or weeks. Guards who put in harassment charges are never dealt with. Sometimes it takes two to three years. The government puts such little value on the people who work in these institutions. In 11 years the guards have not had a raise. The government is not even willing to talk about it. The guards were not really interested so much in the raise throughout that whole era.

One guard in Drumheller who was under suspicion and charged with theft was immediately released from her duties without pay. In the upper house, in the other place convicted ones are sitting in there drawing all kinds of pay. Yet there is a guard from the Drumheller penitentiary who is now at home because charges have been brought against her. She has been out of work.

This place sits back and plays its little games. All through this whole period we have brought these issues to this House of Commons. We have asked the solicitor general time and time again to look after the needs of our guards.

Madam Speaker, how many times in the last session did you hear me ask for puncture proof gloves, something that would protect the guards from possibly contaminated needles? How many times did it never happen? Always. Gloves appeared in some quarters of our penitentiary system, thanks to the efforts of many people at the grassroots level, not thanks to the government.

I remember this same bunch crying out in 1991, “No, no you rotten Conservatives, you cannot get them back to work through legislation. You cannot do that undemocratic thing”. Now the Liberals are doing it, because they want to look good in the eyes of the public I guess.

How nice it would be to come into the House of Commons and deal with issues squarely on, face to face, sensibly and guarantee to our farmers that they do not have to worry about their grain shipments ever stopping again. Why do we not do that?

Wait a minute. I am from a different party than those members are. We cannot allow good ideas to come from the opposition and they cannot come from the government.

[An hon. member]

You never have good ideas.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

They never have good ideas to help our farmers. Keep them alive, keep them well and keep things moving. Are those bad ideas?

Farmers supply food to that member and to every household in the country. Is that not a good idea? If the member thinks that is not a good idea, then go ahead and say it. I will pass the information on to the farmers. Stand up and say it. We will turn the mike on so we can hear. I would like to know when we are going to wake up and take care of the people who take care of us.

I would love to see members of every union across the country collectively say, “We have a good idea, folks. We will join with the farmers, the businessmen and everybody else. Let us all come together to lobby and demand that we have a tax break. We are taxed to the hilt”.

I can almost assure every prison guard, every policeman, every nurse that if we could get a tax break no one would have to have a raise. Besides, a raise would just put a person into a higher bracket and they would lose most of it anyway. So why not go for tax relief collectively across the land and come together as a people, instead of always squabbling back and forth and fighting one another and then ending up with one group of individuals which has no avenue to turn to?

Those individuals do not have a union. How many times do we have to say that? They do not get to name the price that they are going to put on their wheat or barley. They have to wait and see what it is going to be. They do not have a say in what it is going to cost to ship it here or there.

The number one most important industry in this world is farming. It puts food on our tables. We treat it every year in the same fashion.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Fishing.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

And fishing, which is farming. But we would not dare to change it because it would not look good politically. I say, wake up folks. Let us get on with the legislation so we can get people back to work, and then let us start working from that day on to see to it that we do not have to go through this again next year.

Let us get to the legislation. We want to support the legislation. We want the back to work legislation. But let us start doing things together that will make it good for the workers, for the producers and for everyone. Let us start now and stop the games. Today is the day. We can do something.

I say this on behalf of all my grain farmers in Wild Rose, many of whom are on their last leg, who phone me every day and say: “Help us. We have no place to turn. Help us”.

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am delighted to address some of the concerns and some of the nonsense that has been going on in this place. It actually began last Thursday night.

I find it rather interesting. The longer one is in this business, and I have been around for 20 years, the less surprised one gets at how silly and how low political parties, opposite particularly, can go with some misconstrued attempt to try to say to the people that they are doing something good for Canadians.

Last Thursday there was a request that came from the opposition to have an emergency debate. The issue surrounded the fundamental problem in the grain industry and the fact that grain shipments were being held up due to rotating strikes. The grain was rotting and the demand was that we have an emergency debate to see if there was some way the government could bring some position forward that would get the grain moving again, notwithstanding all of the other problems around the rotating strikes, the difficulties of people not getting their income tax refunds or not getting their forms filed, all the safety concerns around national defence, around—

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I am disappointed that so few members got to hear the member's eloquent speech. I do not see a quorum in the House. Perhaps we should call for one, for the benefit of members.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

In fact, we do not have a quorum. Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

We now have a quorum.

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Madam Speaker, there are a couple of not so minor points of interest. I am told that the cost to run the House of Commons is approximately $27,000 an hour. We hear people who watch television say “I saw you speaking in the House. Why were there not other members there?” We all know what other members are doing. How many committees do we have? I currently sit on a couple. Public accounts is sitting down the hall from this august Chamber right now.

[An hon. member]

As is the health committee.

[Steve Mahoney, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

The member says that the health committee is also meeting.