Debates of March 24th, 1999

Building Contracts

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, again these are tactics of the opposition to use words and innuendoes and run away when they are out of this House. But that is their way. When they were elected a few years ago they said they would create a new spirit in the House of Commons, and we know the result.

Yesterday I gave all of the answers I could. Today I can give more that I was not in a position to give last night because I asked my trustee to tell me, to reply to some questions. And she told me that when my partner sold it in 1993, it was paid in 1993, cash. I sold my share in 1993. I have no share. I will not receive any shares. We do not want the shares. The trustee is running it, but there is not a cent, as I said yesterday, that has been owed to me or my former partners by that person since the spring of 1993.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when the Prime Minister is personally responsible for giving loans and grants to former business associates, it would be so simple to clear that up. He could table all the documents and the information that is available. That is the only thing standing between all of these questions that are being asked and the truth.

There are so many questions and so few answers. He could clear his own name now by tabling all of the documents and details relevant. If he is so proud of those deals, where are the details?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has answered all of the questions in relation to what happened in my riding, with the work I have done as the member for Saint-Maurice, who worked for his electors just like the members for Prince George—Peace River, Okanagan—Shuswap, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, Cariboo—Chilcotin, Kootenay—Columbia and others. They all do that for their ridings. I do that for my riding because it is my duty. I will not apologize to anybody for being a good member of parliament.

Canadian Embassy In Berlin

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Foreign Affairs added a new piece of information to the issue of why the contract to build the Canadian embassy in Berlin was awarded to a consortium, one of whose firms is based in his riding of Winnipeg South Centre.

He said that four separate committees had come up with an independent evaluation of the various proposals and that their reports were merged to arrive at a final decision.

So that we may understand his decision to overturn an almost unanimous recommendation, could the minister tell us who was on these four committees?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, is that not a very sad commentary on the Bloc? At a time when we are facing a crisis of war in the Balkans, they are arguing over the petty question about which firm may have won a contract to build an embassy. It is an awful demonstration of the low levels to which the Bloc has sunk in terms of its consideration of the public interest.

I find the Bloc Quebecois' actions regrettable.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a good attempt to divert attention, but if the minister behaved in a manner worthy of his office, we would not have to ask him such questions.

Since we know the composition of only one committee, since only that committee's recommendation was made public, and since the minister, for reasons unknown to us, ignored that recommendation, if the minister wants us to believe him when he talks about an objective decision, can he tell us who sat on these four committees so that we can get to the bottom of this murky affair? How many points did each of the proposals receive? What did each of the committees recommend?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the technical review was conducted by officials from my department, from public works, from the Fire Commission of Canada and outside private sector experts who deal with security matters. The area of costs was done by professional cost planning, an estimating firm, which also indicated that the winning design would have a substantial saving for taxpayers in Canada.

The investor and the heads of programs involved in Berlin also valued the proposals according to the function. In other words, four separate procedures, four separate evaluations, were all brought together to make the best decision for Canada.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs set out in a draft document to elicit people's interest in the Berlin proposal, a broad view of what Canada's embassy in Berlin should be.

He defined it as a place that invites those approaching it. Those are his words.

How can the minister justify the choice of firm from Winnipeg, when the juries concluded that this proposal, and I quote “tends to erect a barrier to the public, is not a very inviting proposal”. As a contradiction, is—

[The Speaker]

The Minister of Foreign Affairs.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first, let us clarify one thing. Let us get rid of the big lie tactics of this—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. That is not acceptable parliamentary language. I would like the minister to withdraw, please.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I will withdraw, Mr. Speaker.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the man feels a little at odds, he is insulting those around him.

Are we surprised at the minister's reversal in the matter of the embassy in Berlin, given that the proposal he favoured was assessed as follows by the experts “It does not suit either the decor or the architecture of the new Berlin”. How does he explain that?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, there is a very simple explanation. There was no reversal.

It was simply a decision based upon technical criteria, security criteria, cost criteria and design criteria. The evaluations of those four separate evaluation teams were all brought together. We wanted to provide the best kind of access for the public, the best security for Canadians, the best functionality for the people working there and the best presentation of the Canadian showcase for the country.

It surprises me very much for a separatist party to be so concerned about the Canadian embassy in Berlin.

Apec Inquiry

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, last fall the Prime Minister insisted again and again that the RCMP were responsible for security at the APEC summit. Yet RCMP documents reveal that the Prime Minister was deeply involved in security planning and in fact directed the RCMP to do everything possible to cater to Suharto's sensitivity.

It is clear that the dictator's paranoia was about political embarrassment. Is that why the Prime Minister gave the RCMP the green light to muzzle demonstrators?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is well aware this is before the public complaints committee. Mr. Hughes will evaluate the evidence and issue a report.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, no wonder the government does not want to answer these pesky questions, but I would like to return to the Prime Minister.

Was it not only yesterday that the PMO was roundly condemned for unfounded attacks on a CBC reporter for his APEC coverage? We now learn from the APEC transcripts that the Prime Minister was on the phone to Indonesia 28 times. What were those phone calls about? Did the Prime Minister promise to spare Suharto any political embarrassment?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, any problems should be brought to Mr. Hughes of the public complaints committee, a very qualified individual. He will issue a report and that report will be available to my hon. colleague and all Canadians.

Homelessness

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, comments by the Minister of Transport and others show that the real reason for the appointment of the minister of homelessness is nothing more than a cynical attempt by the Prime Minister to intervene and to try to manipulate the results of the pending Ontario election.

Will the minister of homelessness admit that her role is not to help the poor and homeless but to help Dalton McGuinty?

[Claudette Bradshaw, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member from my province of New Brunswick, I realize, is very concerned about poverty and homelessness. I am a little surprised with his question.

I have lived with homelessness every day of my life for 30 years. I have been with these people every day of my life for 30 years and I want to assure everybody in Canada that I am in this for the long run and I am in this to work with Canadian people to find the right solutions so that every child in Canada will have a safe bed to sleep in.

[Norman E. Doyle, Progressive Conservative, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to fix the homeless problem when government is unwilling to dedicate resources to it. Since 1993 the Liberals have cut funding for affordable housing, they have relinquished their responsibility for social housing to the provinces and now they are phasing out funding for most housing programs completely. The new minister says she has no idea how to fix the homeless problem. Let me help her out.

Will this government show some leadership and re-establish a lead role in social housing?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, we continue to work with the provinces on social housing. Some provinces have accepted and negotiated the transfer of social housing to avoid duplication. Avoiding duplication has created savings and we were able to invest it in a program that everybody, the provinces and all Canadians, like. It is the RRAP and this government invested $300 million in one year.

Building Contracts

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the more we learn about the money that was given to the Prime Minister's friend, the more questions are raised.

I have in my hands documents which show that the Minister of Human Resources Development signed off on $200,000 to Mr. Duhaime over three months before Mr. Duhaime even filled out an application. It is these kinds of discrepancies which have to be cleared up quickly.

Is the Prime Minister prepared to have the auditor general conduct an inquiry and lay this thing to rest for once and for all?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member the process followed with this file was absolutely appropriate.

The file was recommended to me by my department following the appropriate consultation done with the local member of the Quebec national assembly and with a number of business partners, as we do all across Canada. What we want is to create jobs where unemployment levels are too high.