House of Commons Hansard #206 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was reform.

Topics

SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Antoine Dubé Bloc Lévis, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to say that I notice the member wants to recover go back some 15 years, to the time he spent as a Progressive Conservative member. It is a fine effort, and we see what he is up to. The words are the same, the party is different.

The member knows very well that the CLDs are a replacement structure, with an expanded mandate, which serve as a complement to the existing economic councils, even those existing 15 years ago.

The member speak of duplication by the federal government. It existed 15 years ago and still exists. The efforts of the Government of Quebec through various departments responsible for regional development mean the work done by the SADCs is recognized. They do an excellent job, no one is criticizing them. They act as volunteers on the boards.

They have expertise we want to promote, on the condition that the minister agrees these people can work on a co-operative basis. He is the one currently blocking things now. He is busting his britches looking only for visibility for the Liberal government, for his party and for federalism.

SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I followed the debate and accessed some of the research points, and I think this goes to what the member has been saying.

Let us consider some of the examples respecting the western provinces like federal funding for Tri-University Meson Facility in B.C., $166 million; $670 million in Alberta in infrastructure projects; $359 million in Saskatchewan for infrastructure projects and another $1.5 billion for an aerospace industry initiative; and another $224 million in Manitoba in federal assistance to the Red River Valley fund.

When we look at the different initiatives the federal government has taken with regard to the provinces I have just talked about, we recognize very clearly the diversity of Canada. Certainly Quebec has had its share of difficulties. The federal and the provincial governments have come together to address the needs of the people of Quebec, especially at times of need and natural disasters.

Would the member, in the brief time remaining, comment on the significance to him of the social union, and particularly the health accord to which the Premier of Quebec is a signatory? Would he view that as a sign of federal provincial co-operation which benefits all Canadians?

SupplyGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Antoine Dubé Bloc Lévis, QC

Mr. Speaker, the member said a lot of things. It is very easy for anyone in this House to take a series of figures, financial support here, a contract there and maybe a loan somewhere else. It can make different impressions.

We are mixing apples and oranges. Today's discussion is not about all the federal programs, but about regional development. The figures I quoted earlier are in the budget.

For fifteen seconds, I am going to comment on the social union. It is an agreement in which the provinces other than Quebec, wanting more money, sacrificed principles and jurisdictions for it, something Quebec was not prepared to do. It values its jurisdictions, it values its principles and its objectives and it will not be bought.

SupplyGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to take part in the debate on the Reform Party motion, at the end of this opposition day.

I partially agree with the motion, particularly its first part, which provides that this House should condemn the government for failing to identify and address the main concerns and issues of the regions of Canada.

With regard to that first part of the motion, there are many issues, many realities which show that in Canada, since the last two elections, that is since the Liberals took office—and the membership of this parliament is a prime example—regional parties have a strong representation. These are parties that represent Canada's regions, because there is a great deal of frustration among our fellow citizens. Let me give you a few examples to support my point.

First, there is the whole issue of employment insurance. A few years ago, the government decided to completely change the unemployment insurance program and to transform it into what was called the employment insurance program. However, this is much more a program used by the government to fight the deficit, to try to pocket money as quickly as possible, without any regard for the impact on regional development.

In Canada, a kind of social pact had been in place for quite some time, in fact for several decades. There was a major seasonal industry in resource-based regions, such as those living off the agricultural, logging or fishing industry, since there were no permanent jobs in those industries. An EI system was introduced that allowed people to work during periods when there were jobs and to have supplemental income during periods when there were none.

A forestry worker cannot cut down trees year round. It is the same for fishers; there is a period of the year when it is not possible to work. Those who harvest peat, an industry in my region, have the same problem.

The federal government decided to scrap this social pact. It tightened up the EI program to the point where many people have no income at all for five, ten or fifteen weeks every year. Another result is that someone earning minimum wage will receive EI benefits that are actually less than welfare, and thus less than the minimum required to get by.

These are not hypothetical examples. I am talking about folks we see in our ridings. Recently, I met with someone in this very situation, a 51-year-old man who had always had a seasonal job and was therefore being penalized. He was losing 1% of his benefits for 15, 20 or 25 weeks every year. This is completely unacceptable.

For people such as these in our regions, the federal government's behaviour shows that it has no understanding of or sensitivity to regional development needs.

We have other similar examples. If the federal government were concerned about the needs of the regions, it would already have introduced a pro-shipbuilding strategy. It would listen to the suggestions of the member for Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière and this industrial sector could be revived in the regions where it once throve.

Through its inaction and failure to understand what is needed to put things right, the federal government continues to ignore the needs of the regions, to stand in the way of their full development.

Another example is the millennium scholarships. Some will say that scholarships are far from being regional development. In Canada, however, there are people, federalists, who consider Quebec to be a region of Canada. They tell the Quebec government, which is responsible for education, “Your loan and scholarship program, the best in Canada, will be shunted aside and we will create a plan for merit-based scholarships which will directly finance the university studies of certain students but this will be according to their academic success and not their financial need”. This is in direct contradiction with the basic principles of the Quebec program.

This is one more way for the federal government to show that it has solutions for everything and must, in order to raise its profile, trample on people's needs.

Earlier there was a debate on the CFDCs. No one has said that all federal government ideas are bad ones, but what is certainly bad is to have put in place and perpetuated for decades two regimes for local development, side by side. Even if today there are the Community Futures Development Corporations, with a mandate and a community base, there are also CLDs, local development centres. Why both, when each region could manage very well with just one? Because the federal government insists on being involved in regional development, a sector clearly not its responsibility.

There are many examples of how the federal government violated, if you will, the social pact that united Canadians. We witnessed this with the income sharing program and the changes to equalization rules.

The first part of the Reform Party motion obviously refers to people living in the various regions of Canada. Now, national policies are dictated by bureaucrats. This is not necessarily because elected representatives act in bad faith, but because of the huge bureaucracy that the government has allowed to develop in Ottawa over the past 20 or 25 years. Very quickly, those appointed to cabinet start speaking primarily on behalf of these bureaucrats, instead of representing their voters and the various regions of Canada.

We must root out this evil in Ottawa. In that sense, the Reform Party motion is right on target.

I can understand why the Liberal Party of Canada is desperately trying to establish roots in various parts of the country, because there are some regions where no Liberals have been elected for a long time, which is also a reflection of public discontent.

For example, how could people in Quebec's eastern region elect a Liberal candidate when, in recent years, the Liberal Party has reneged on its principles regarding how the unemployed should be treated, preferring instead to pursue the policies set in place by the Conservatives? People are not stupid. They know what they are doing when they vote. They are sending a message to the government, and the government should listen.

I will conclude by describing what I think would be the way the federal government could show clearly it is listening to the regions. Let us take the very real example of the gas pipeline, whose route, which was decided last year, could have been through eastern Quebec and northern New Brunswick and on to Sable Island. The decision was to let market rules apply.

This is what the Minister of Natural Resources blissfully told me in a letter “We have decided to leave the market rules,—to ensure the natural gas finds its way as quickly as possible to the United States—to let these people have a significant competitive edge”. However, had the entire region between Bernières, the Rivière-du-Loup region and New Brunswick been provided with natural gas, there would have been a significant competitive edge that would have attracted business.

Either market rules prevail, and gas service is provided where business exists, or the government plays the role of financial lever of economic development and gives the regions appropriate tools. This is the sort of action the people in our regions are waiting for because at the moment there is deep dissatisfaction which is expressed in this House by among other things the first part of the Reform Party's motion.

SupplyGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

Mr. Speaker, it being 5.30 p.m., it is my duty to inform the House that proceedings on the motion have expired.

The House resumed from March 24 consideration of the motion that Bill C-67, an act to amend the Bank Act, the Winding-up and Restructuring Act and other acts relating to financial institutions and to make consequential amendments to other acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Bank ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

It being 5.30 p.m., pursuant to order made on Wednesday, March 24, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-67.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Division No. 365Government Orders

6 p.m.

The Speaker

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.

(Bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

The House resumed from March 24 consideration of the motion.

Transit PassesPrivate Members' Business

6 p.m.

The Speaker

Pursuant to order made on Wednesday, March 24, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on Motion No. 360 under Private Members' Business.

We have been through the private members' voting procedure before. We will take the vote starting with those in favour in the back row on my left. All those in favour of the motion will please rise.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Division No. 366Private Members' Business

6:10 p.m.

The Speaker

I declare the motion carried.

The House resumed from March 25 consideration of Bill C-27, an act to amend the Coastal Fisheries Protection Act and the Canada Shipping Act to enable Canada to implement the Agreement for the Implementation of the Provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 Relating to the Conservation and Management of Straddling Fish Stocks and Highly Migratory Fish Stocks and other international fisheries treaties or arrangements, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Speaker

Pursuant to order made Thursday, March 25, 1999, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred divisions at report stage of Bill C-27.

The first question is on Motion No. 1.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Mr. Speaker, if the House would agree I would propose that you seek unanimous consent that members who voted on the previous motion be recorded as having voted on the motion now before the House, with Liberal members voting nay.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Speaker

Is there agreement to proceed in such a fashion?

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Reform

Chuck Strahl Reform Fraser Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, Reform Party members present vote no to this motion.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, Bloc Quebecois members are in favour of the motion.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

NDP

John Solomon NDP Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Mr. Speaker, NDP members present this evening vote yes to this motion.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Norman E. Doyle Progressive Conservative St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, members of the Conservative Party vote yes to this motion.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

April 13th, 1999 / 6:15 p.m.

Independent

John Nunziata Independent York South—Weston, ON

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the residents of York South—Weston I would vote against this motion.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West—Mississauga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I did not vote on the last vote and I would like to be recorded as voting with my party on this vote.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Reform

Ted White Reform North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, as I abstained on the previous vote I would like my vote recorded as opposed to this one.

Coastal Fisheries Protection ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Reform

Gerry Ritz Reform Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, since I abstained on the last vote too, I would like my vote recorded as being opposed to this one.

(The House divided on Motion No. 1, which was negatived on the following division:)

Division No. 367Government Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Speaker

I declare Motion No. 1 defeated.

The next question is on Motion No. 2.