Debates of May 25th, 1999

Government Grants

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, this project had been discussed for years in Shawinigan. It is the kind of project that is badly needed in a district where unemployment is very high in the Saint-Maurice riding.

Everyone had been talking about it. Everyone supported the project, including the hon. member for Saint-Maurice who has done his job as the local member for Saint-Maurice. We are very pleased that the project has worked and has indeed created the jobs that it was supposed to bring to the region.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it may have been badly needed but it may have been because an election was just around the corner.

The Prime Minister and the Minister of Human Resources Development keep trying to convince us that this was a normal grant process, but let us look at the facts.

The Prime Minister announced a $600,000 grant just before an election, three months before the officials in the federal department approved it and six months before Quebec approved it. His public announcement was then used by the bureaucracy as an excuse to rapidly move it through the system and guarantee its approval.

No other MP could ever get away with making that announcement before it was properly approved. Why does the Prime Minister not just admit that the reason the grant was approved was that he announced it ahead of time?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the project was announced by the Prime Minister and by me. We then realized that we had a better vehicle for that particular project.

The reason for the delay was that we used another program to deliver that particular project. That is the reason that explains the little delay. It was nothing like the kind of innuendo the Reform is trying to bring about.

Tainted Blood

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in recent months, as a member of cabinet, the Minister of Finance has taken part—or had the opportunity to take part—in discussions on compensation for tainted blood victims.

My question to the minister closely relates to his responsibilities and is very simple. During these discussions, did he abstain from talking, yes or no? This is simple enough.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is a decision that has nothing to do with the Minister of Finance at this time.

The minister was a director of CDC until 1986, when he resigned. He was one of the government's representatives with that company, which was held by a majority of private interests. The minister clearly told the House that he did not take part in any decision, that he did not remember anything.

The House must take the minister's word that he was never in a conflict of interest situation.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is never anyone's fault, on the other side, when things happen.

Through these discussions, was the Minister of Finance involved in the decision not to compensate those who became tainted blood victims before 1986? Did he take part in that decision made by cabinet? If so, does he agree that this decision was very convenient for him, since he has some responsibility in this?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance had absolutely no personal interest in this issue. He stopped being a member of the board of that corporation in 1986.

He told the House that he does not remember ever discussing the tainted blood issue when he was with CDC, nor do the other directors of that company. Based on that, the Minister of Finance was never, at any time, in any conflict of interest situation.

Government Grants

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP is now investigating a close crony of the Prime Minister's for violating the Lobbyists Registration Act. René Fugère called and met with government officials to get another $100,000 for a self-confessed embezzler who owns a hotel in the Prime Minister's riding.

Will the government explain how an unregistered, unpaid Liberal aide was able to get an additional $100,000 from Canadian taxpayers?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, Mr. Fugère was not an aide. Second, the matter has been referred by the ethics councillor to the RCMP for investigation.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I know the government would like to hide on this, but there are hundreds of lobbyists just off the Hill who would love to know why they have to register their efforts while friends of the Prime Minister's get away free of scrutiny.

Perhaps the Prime Minister could explain to them how an unregistered, unpaid lobbyist can get grants and loans of this size from the federal government?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the question answered itself. If in fact he was obliged to register then the RCMP will proceed with the matter.

In the meantime it is appropriate that the complaint be referred to the police for investigation. We will see what the outcome of that investigation is.

Employment Insurance

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the EI quota scandal, documents obtained under the Access to Information Act indicate as follows:

At the risk of repeating ourselves, the lack of success in reaching targets could result in as many as 150 full time job losses.

Bearing this in mind, does the minister still stand behind what he told this House on February 4, and I quote “The 150 employees in question...do not have knives at their throats. We are not threatening to fire them”.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have always told the House that employees of our department are protected by a collective agreement and that, in a department such as mine, reassignments from one division to another are constantly taking place. We are very rigorous managers.

As for the so-called quota scandal, which the member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouta—Les Basques is so fond of mentioning, I would like to point out that Quebec's PQ government recently went after $100 million in welfare fraud and came up with $112 million.

As branch employees, you should take a look at what head office is doing, and you will see that that is the direction modern management is taking.

[The Speaker]

Members must always address the Chair.

The Environment

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment. Companies should not be allowed to release toxic substances into the environment. Will the minister crack down on companies that pollute our environment?

[Christine Stewart, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the government is very concerned about the threat of toxic substances in the country, both their effects on the environment and on human health.

That is why we are bringing in new CEPA legislation, environmental protection legislation, which will cause companies to prevent pollution from toxic substances.

That is why we have brought in new regulations to promote better voluntary commitment to dealing with toxic substances.

That is why the government has brought forward $80 million in the last two budgets to deal with the management and the science around the use of toxic substances.

We will make sure that industries and all Canadians comply with our legislation.

Kosovo

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, NATO is moving ever closer to sending ground forces into Kosovo.

The U.S. and Britain are in a substantial debate over this particular issue, but Canadians have not heard a whole lot from our defence minister.

Will Canada send ground forces into Kosovo prior to the reaching of a peace agreement?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there are no plans to do that, as we have said on many different occasions. There are no plans by Canada and there are no plans by NATO.

The military planners of course are always looking at different options to make sure that we are prepared for whatever circumstances they may be asked to survey.

As has been said before, that is a decision that will be made by the Canadian government and it will be made by NATO. If there is any decision to change the mandate from one of a peacekeeping force after agreement parliament will be consulted.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is not very reassuring, coming from the mouth of the defence minister, as to whether we will send ground troops prior to a peace agreement.

It is incumbent upon the defence minister to make it absolutely clear to Canadians and to this parliament whether Canada will send troops into Kosovo prior to the reaching of a peace agreement.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I have made it abundantly clear. No, there are no plans to send ground troops in prior to a peace agreement being reached.

That is the plan of the Canadian government, which was discussed in this parliament, and that is the plan of NATO.

Government Grants

[Lorne Nystrom, NDP, Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Will the Prime Minister explain to the House why he announced a $600,000 grant for a hotel in his constituency three weeks before that same hotel even submitted a business plan to federal officials?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I have just said to this House that the very program we intended to use for that project did not require a business plan. We wanted to use a targeted wage subsidy—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Papineau—Saint-Denis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, all of the information necessary to receive a targeted wage subsidy had been submitted and approved by our department.

We subsequently decided to use the transitional jobs fund instead, for which a business plan is needed. It was requested and it was received.