Debates of March 27th, 2000

Economic Development Agency

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is monitoring but he has not read any of the audits. What kind of monitoring is that?

What is clear is that the sloppy management style of the Liberal government does not stop at HRDC. It is across all government departments. Despite two years for Industry Canada to clean up this mess, a follow-up audit in 1999 said that it still lacked compliance. Why is that? Will the minister tell us how many more audits exist within his department that deal with mismanagement in grants and contributions?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, whenever an internal audit or the auditor general himself has something, we sit with him and have a look at the situation. We make sure we make improvements as well because we care about the management of the public funds we are managing.

The main concern of members on the other side is not the question of management. Their main problem is that in 1993 they would have destroyed all the industry department. They would have destroyed all economic development area agencies.

Now what they dislike very much is the results we have from getting involved and working with the regions, in partnership with the regions. The results are amazing. I am going to keep—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans.

Billboards

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the very controversial issue of Mediacom billboards in the Montreal region, the Minister of Transport has stated that he will proceed and that the advertising will comply with the law.

How can the minister go against the advice of the Quebec Ministry of Transport, of the City of Montreal and of the Government of Quebec on highway safety?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, we believe that the paramount issue here is road safety. These signs were erected to assist drivers in the Montreal area coming across very crowded bridges each day.

There were consultations with provincial authorities before the signs were erected. We believe they fully comply with the spirit of the law. Certainly we believe they will be of great benefit to motorists in the Montreal area.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister refers to consultations. This government constantly talks about flexible federalism, a system able to co-operate with the provinces.

How can the minister convince us of the so-called flexibility of the federal system when it cannot even agree along on an issue as simple as billboards?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I should point out that the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction over building billboards on bridges. Decisions were made in the best interests of motorists in the Montreal region.

Economic Development Agency

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we now know that mismanagement of public funds is not isolated to the HRDC department. In fact similar vote creation schemes were reported in Economic Development Canada audits as far back as 1997. The same litany of incompetence as HRDC, only three years earlier. Why is it that every time we uncover an internal audit we find more examples of Liberal incompetence?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report again that we have internal audits on a yearly basis. As well the auditor general gets involved.

I am pleased to report as well that back in 1997, if we look at the report of the auditor general, he told us that indeed there was major improvement in our programming and the management of the funds. I am also pleased to report that we make the difference in all the regions across the province of Quebec.

I am pleased to say as well that as long as I am there, I will do my work, my job, and get involved in the economic development of the regions. Of course members on the other side do not believe in economic development of the regions, but this is Liberal—

[The Speaker]

The hon. opposition whip.

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what we believe in on this side is ministerial accountability for tax dollars.

The internal EDC audits further illustrate the government's practice of cutting cheques first and asking questions second. In three successive audits the minister was rebuked for handing over money for economic diversification with no record of the economic benefit of the dollars spent.

The Minister of Industry is responsible for the spending of hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars. Why then is he more concerned with the political benefit for Liberals than with economic accountability for taxpayers?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, the question of mismanagement they are raising must be part of their dream. All the elements of the report I have in my hand show that the department is acting properly and is monitoring the situation properly. We make the difference in all the regions.

If they do not want to play cheap politics and they have specific concerns regarding the management of Canadian Economic Development, I just ask the hon. member to come over and tell me exactly what he is referring to. What I have shows that we are doing good work in the regions as Liberals.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I am sure we want to hear both the questions and the answers.

Gasoline Pricing

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has special problems in the petroleum industry.

Even Liberal members who have examined the issue admit that the high degree of concentration in the industry is the reason for the volatility in retail prices.

How can the Minister of Industry settle for a Conference Board study when the problems of the petroleum industry are well known—too high a concentration in the industry and the Conference Board's inability to serve as a true watchdog for consumers?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, a study was announced and it is, I believe, a very important one.

First of all, it was suggested by Liberal members. Second, it is a fundamental study in terms of helping us fully understand the problems that exist. Third, if the member truly wants to understand the situation in this sector, he should thank the government for having announced this study.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is the minister aware that it was his own colleagues that concluded, after an in-depth study, that part of the reason for high gas prices was the absence of real competition in the petroleum industry?

Why is he hiding behind the Conference Board study in an attempt to buy time unless he is trying to protect the petroleum industry and continue to rake in tax revenues from industry profits?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, it was Liberal members who proposed the study. And a study will be done.

But if his understanding of the situation is so good, perhaps he can explain to his constituents that, first, the price of oil on world markets has been higher for more than a year and, second, that if someone can regulate retail sales prices, it is the provincial governments.

Economic Development Agency

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last week the auditor general reported that the lax controls at HRDC had made it “difficult to know whether the funds were used as intended, spent wisely and produced the desired result”.

HRDC is not alone. Three years ago a Canadian Economic Development Quebec region audit showed mismanagement of public funds by the Department of Industry. Two subsequent audits showed that little was done to correct these problems. Why does the government wait until the official opposition reveals a scandal before it does anything?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, as I said back in 1995, we changed our mission. We have developed brand new programming. Actually we are dealing with and getting involved in the regions with two main programs.

I would just like to tell the House that of course we are managing public funds. Of course we are getting involved in the economic development of the regions. That is why on a yearly basis we are dealing with internal audits as well as the auditor general's reports.

Let me tell the House that I am pleased to report that now the main programs of the department are ISO 9002, which means that we do care about what we are doing and the management of public funds. As well we are going to—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock—Langley.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the minister actually read the audit. The auditor general has pointed out that problems in HRDC have been going on for a quarter of a century and that there is no indication that the programs have delivered the desired results.

Now we learn of similar problems with the Department of Industry. How long has the Department of Industry been mismanaging taxpayer dollars?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I ask the hon. member to explain where she thinks the Department of Industry is misspending taxpayer dollars. So far today all the questions of members opposite have related to a totally different department.

Aéroports De Montréal

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, everyone is now aware of the big problems facing the ADM, a body created by federal legislation.

In light of the federal government's responsibility in this matter, is the Minister of Transport prepared to ask the Standing Committee on Transport to ask Ms. Pageau-Goyette and all the socio-economic stakeholders to appear and shed some light on the problems faced by the ADM?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, reports on the management of Aéroports de Montréal in the papers are troubling. However, I must say that it is functioning well.

As members know, the administration of the Montreal airports is the responsibility of a committee in the region. I have spoken with my officials and hope to have more details shortly.