Debates of May 2nd, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows the access to information program is managed by the department under the auspices of the information commissioner. If the hon. member made the request, he will receive the documentation, as is appropriate.

Organized Crime

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Robert Fahlman, a former RCMP criminal intelligence officer, said “The Mounties were disappointed with CSIS stopping sidewinder”. Robert Proulx, director of RCMP criminal intelligence, wrote the director general of CSIS arguing that the original sidewinder report was altered, sometimes incorrectly, and, in some cases, some information had been completely removed. He said “I want those sections to remain because they are integral to the integrity of the report”.

The minister knows the law with regard to altering and destroying documents. Why was the law broken if not to cover up?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is aware that SIRC is evaluating these allegations and will review the report. When it does, it will report to me.

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, since 1993 the Liberal government has gone out of its way to court trade and business opportunities with China. In fact, the Prime Minister is planning to lead another trade mission to China later this year.

Is the real reason the government and the Prime Minister are turning a blind eye to the threat of Asian gangs and Chinese spy agencies setting up shop in Canada because they do not want to interfere?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is well aware that we have an excellent security intelligence agency and an excellent police force.

My hon. colleague is also well aware that the government recognizes the need and has indicated clearly many times that we will give the police and the security intelligence agency the tools and the funding to do the job. The government has given $810 million of new money to my department to make sure that these agencies are able to fulfil their tasks.

Cinar

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in response to a question we asked him yesterday, the Minister of National Revenue said that, for there to be voluntary disclosure, and I quote “The government or any other entity must not have already taken measures to recover funds belonging to the state”.

Are we to understand from this response from the Minister of National Revenue that CINAR would still qualify for the voluntary disclosure program, despite the fact that the RCMP itself admits that the case apparently involves fraud?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, first, with respect to the corporation referred to, the rules of confidentiality obviously prevent me from commenting.

Second, concerning the fairness initiative, which includes a voluntary disclosure measure, the meaning of voluntary disclosure is obviously clear from the expression itself: the case must not have been brought to the attention of the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency if one is to benefit from this aspect of the fairness initiative.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I again quote the response given by the minister yesterday. For a corporation to be eligible for the voluntary disclosure program “the government or any other entity must not have already taken measures to recover funds belonging to the state”.

Will the minister tell us whether or not he has taken action to recover the amounts CINAR is alleged to have fraudulently obtained?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the question has to do with a specific corporation and, under the rule of confidentiality, I am obviously unable to comment.

I will not comment because all Canadians understand the rule of confidentiality, support it and certainly understand its importance. The government will ensure that this rule is respected.

Immigration

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last summer 600 illegal migrants arrived on Canada's shores. The immigration minister assured Canadians that those people would be processed quickly and dealt with appropriately.

It is now 10 months later and they are either still detained or have disappeared. We have now been told to expect more than twice as many this summer.

How will the minister handle this year's influx of illegal migrants when she still has not dealt with those of last year?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I want to inform the member that there have been no indications of any boats on their way to Canada. However, if there are, we are now prepared to handle the situation because as of what happened last year. That is simply good management. We intend to intercept the boats. We will detain them and we will have a speedy determination.

As the member knows, I recently went to China to discuss expediting removals with the Chinese government so that we can return those Chinese nationals who are ready to go home to China.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is not with another government, the problem is with this government.

Five hundred of the 600 illegal migrants who came last summer have still not been processed by this government. When this government mismanages billions of taxpayers' dollars it affects people's standard of living, but when this government mismanages security, justice or immigration it affects people's lives.

How can the minister be so callous and mismanage her department in a way that affects so many people's lives?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I disagree with just about everything the member opposite has said.

We intercepted those boats last summer and detained the individuals. They have had due process and 100 are removal ready at this time. We are seeking travel documents. There are an additional 350 who are deciding now whether they want to drag out this process through the courts and make further appeals. That is their right because we believe in due process.

I want the member opposite to know that we are anticipating every eventuality and we are prepared. That is good management.

Human Resources Development

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the case of the Placeteco invoices, either the Minister of Human Resources Development did not understand or she did not want to understand.

The opposition has used every means at its disposal, including access to information: no invoice was to be found in the general file of Placeteco.

Since she is basing her defence on these documents in the Placeteco matter, will the minister agree here in this House to make these invoices available? They are public documents, and we want to see them. Will she agree to this?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, when we talk about papers from an individual business there are privacy concerns. I would encourage the hon. member to use the access to information process so that the appropriate information can be made available. That is what the process is there to do and I would encourage him to use it.

Finance

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

At the recent International Monetary Fund and World Bank meetings, which were held in Washington, protesters decried the exclusion of civil society.

Could the minister tell the House what the government is doing to encourage the participation of civil society in these talks and also in discussions at that level?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the member's question is very pertinent because it reflects on the legitimate concerns that many NGOs have about the process of globalization.

The response is really twofold, one at the national level. Over the course of the last four years I have, on a regular basis, met with the pertinent NGOs. In fact, just before we went to the meeting in Washington, the Minister for International Cooperation and myself met with them again.

At the national level, the president of the World Bank has told me that in the course of the last couple of months he has met with over 60 NGOs. The World Bank has in fact gone on line in order to conduct a dialogue with these NGOs. The question in fact is very pertinent.

Foreign Affairs

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in one year alone Canada poured $60 million of CIDA aid into Vietnam for so-called justice reform and good governance. Last week's execution of a Canadian shows that this investment in the Communist justice system is an abysmal failure.

Why does this government not stop investing in a Vietnam system that abuses human rights?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, first I want to say that our bilateral program is $16 million. As a result of the horrendous behaviour of the Vietnamese government, I have postponed indefinitely all consultations on future programming in Vietnam.

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we all regret that the minister has failed in her management.

CIDA invested $59.17 million to reform the Vietnamese justice system. Nguyen Thi Hiep was brutally executed by a firing squad, by the very system which Canadian taxpayers were made to invest in. Where is justice reform in that system?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, it is evident that not only Canada but the World Bank and many other organizations were working with Vietnam to assist it to become a modern, democratic, moral society.

Obviously what has happened in the last number of days has been absolutely unacceptable. It is why, as I already said to the hon. member, I have stopped all consultations on future programming for Vietnam at this point.

Health

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, we know the Minister of Health is feeling kind of touchy and defensive when he starts to attack us for not having any suggestions. We have done nothing else but make suggestions for years. Perhaps I will ask a question of the Minister for International Trade because we have not been able to get an answer from the Minister of Health.

What is the Minister for International Trade's position with respect to the relationship between chapter 11 of NAFTA and what is going on in Alberta with respect to bill 11? Canadians and Albertans have a right to know before the bill is passed what the government regards as the NAFTA implications.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, let me be very clear that it is Canada's right to regulate and protect fundamental Canadian values within the health care sector, as well as in education.

As I have said time and again, those Canadian values as defined by the Canada Health Act are fully protected under NAFTA. The issue here is the Canadian health system which the government is committed to preserving fully for all Canadians.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether that was much of an improvement and whether or not I should go back to the Minister of Health.

The fact of the matter is that we do not have an opinion from the government as to the NAFTA implications of Bill 11. Canadians need to know that and the Canadian government needs to have an opinion on that before that bill passes. Closure has now been invoked.

The Minister of Health said he was seeking opinions on this matter. What has he found out? What is the position of the government? What is it going to do about it if it is found that it does have NAFTA implications?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the question does not get any better as the hon. member raises his voice. The answer is quite obvious. I have expressed the concern of the Government of Canada to the Government of Alberta about NAFTA.

The matter is being debated in the Alberta legislature. There are amendments before that body and we will determine the result when the vote is taken.

My point is that the NDP comes to this discussion with no fresh ideas about how to improve medicare. It is the same old status quo from the same old NDP. It is not good enough for this government and it is not good enough for Canadians.