Debates of Feb. 9th, 2001

Ethics Counsellor

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is an attack.

When will this government understand that any change to the imperfect system we have now will be simply cosmetic, so long as the ethics counsellor is not appointed by the House, accountable to the House and does not follow a code of ethics drafted by parliament?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, earlier, the member added that the government was being investigated. Members will see this in Hansard .

However, the truth is totally different, if I may put it that way. No one in this government, to my knowledge, is being investigated. If the hon. member thinks this is otherwise, let him say so outside the House and name the minister under investigation.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We will go. That does not bother us.

Heating Fuel Rebate

[Ken Epp, Canadian Alliance, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the administration of this energy rebate system is a total Liberal disaster. Most people paying the high bills are not getting the rebate and thousands who do not pay for energy are getting these cheques from the government.

Prisoners are getting the rebates. We have records of students on student visas who are getting energy rebates. Thousands of people who have never paid a heating bill in their life are getting the cheques but those who are paying the high bills are not.

Why does the government not simply administer this through the utility company billings so that the rebates are targeted to the people who are actually incurring the costs?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the government's move was to provide low income Canadians with the rebate, low income Canadians who were least capable of handling rising fuel costs or in fact the rising cost of living.

We made it very clear. We wanted to move quickly and we took the most efficient way of doing so. We have done exactly what the government of Alberta has done.

We understand, and we said at the time that there would be flaws, but the fact is that those flaws are minuscule, albeit important, we are not denying that and our officials are looking at it. However, what is really important is that the money get—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Cariboo-Chilcotin.

[Philip Mayfield, Canadian Alliance, Cariboo—Chilcotin, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government did not take the most efficient way of helping gas consumers.

Considering Canada's climate and frigid temperatures for many months each year, heating our homes in the winter is as essential as food and clothing.

Basing the heating expense relief program on data from 1999, with no reference to current heating bills, was an irresponsible way to distribute almost $1.4 billion. If the government wanted to help people with rising heating costs it could have implemented a system that would have actually helped consumers rather than leaving the billpayers out in the cold.

Will the government eliminate the GST from all home heating fuels?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we did take by far the most efficient and quickest way of providing these cheques to low income Canadians, exactly the same way and for exactly the same reason that the government of Alberta utilized the same mechanism.

The fact is that the purpose of this rebate was to provide the money to low income Canadians, low income Canadians who, among other things, were suffering from rising fuel prices.

International Co-Operation

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Cooperation.

After a catastrophic drought and 20 years of conflict in the region, community coping mechanisms in Afghanistan are totally exhausted now. Huge numbers of people have been displaced and organizations are struggling to meet basic human life requirements.

The United Nations has asked for international assistance. I ask today: What is Canada doing to assist Afghanistan?

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, on February 8 the minister responsible for the Canadian International Development Agency announced $1.3 million in response to the current crisis, to provide immediate relief supplies to international displaced persons, including blankets, plastic sheets, clothes and tents, and to help address the most urgent humanitarian needs of Afghan refugees through various UN agencies.

Housing

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in the past week the finance minister's office has been flooded with thousands of letters and e-mails from Canadians who want to know when the minister will develop a national housing strategy based on the recommendations that he produced in his own report 10 years ago when he was in opposition.

Has the minister taken heed of those letters, and especially the fact that Canadians are calling on him and the government to go beyond crisis management and to implement recommendations that will bring us a national housing strategy? Does the minister even believe in his own report that he wrote 10 years ago? When will he develop a national housing strategy?

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the government does have a national housing strategy. I will highlight some of the elements for the member.

We provide $1.9 billion annually in housing assistance to 640,000 low income households. Through mortgage loan insurance, housing research and home renovation programs, we are improving housing supply and conditions for Canadians. We also provided $753 million to address homelessness. The Speech from the Throne also included aboriginal housing and affordable rental housing provisions.

Yes, Canada does have a national housing strategy.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if the government believes that is a national housing strategy then that is pathetic.

Everyone is calling for a national housing strategy: the Canadian Federation of Municipalities, the Toronto Board of Trade, national housing groups and even 85% of Canadians in a recent Maclean's poll.

People are really sick to death of the piecemeal announcements that we have been hearing. It is really an insult to the gravity of the problem.

I ask again: When will the government get the picture, move beyond crisis management and implement a national housing supply program and a national program that will actually build affordable housing for Canadians?

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, housing is a very complex issue. It requires a comprehensive solution, including dealing with the homelessness as well as affordable housing and aboriginal housing.

The member should note that in the Speech from the Throne the government indicated that it was moving forward with plans to stimulate the creation of new affordable rental housing. It is a government priority and the government will be announcing such initiatives in the near future.

Equalization Program

[Loyola Hearn, Progressive Conservative, St. John's West, NL]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

In responding earlier to my colleague, he talked about the changes to equalization. However, it is really the clawback arrangement that concerns us. When Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and other provinces develop their resources, most of the royalties from those resources go to the federal government and we are left with very little. If we could keep our royalties until we reached the Canadian average, we would be a contributor.

Would the minister look at that? What we need is fairness. We certainly do not need another snow job in Newfoundland.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, under the arrangements that exist in the accords act, the royalties that accrue to the Government of Canada are transmitted to the offshore provinces. Obviously that has to be taken into account in the equalization formula.

To help offset that there is an equalization offset. The royalties over the last number of years have amounted to about $50 million. The equalization offset in the case of Nova Scotia has amounted to about $32 million.

What the hon. gentleman really is discussing here is a long term change in equalization. As the Minister of Finance has indicated that is always under review—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for South Shore.

[Gerald Keddy, Progressive Conservative, South Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. minister has not told the House is that equalization for the government members on that side of the House means that for every dollar of revenue from the offshore to Nova Scotia, 19 cents stays in the province of Nova Scotia and 81 cents goes to the Government of Canada.

Does the minister want to stand in this place and try to tell anyone that that is equalization?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member ought to know that equalization is based on the respective fiscal capacities of individual provinces. There are seven such recipient provinces. If we are going to treat them fairly, each among themselves, then we must do so on the basis of their respective fiscal capacities. That is what equalization does. That is why as the country evolves, equalization evolves. It is constantly under review.

Gun Control

[Garry Breitkreuz, Canadian Alliance, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, in April 1995 the justice minister promised parliament that the gun registration scheme would run a deficit of only $2.2 million over five years. The actual deficit was 150 times as much, at $300 million. We were promised that user fees would cover the entire cost of the program.

The justice minister has been stonewalling investigators from the Office of the Information Commissioner since last August. Hundreds of pages of registry documents have been declared cabinet secrets. What is the government hiding? Exactly how much has the gun registry cost to date?

[John Maloney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians overwhelmingly support the Canadian firearms system.

We cannot look at this without looking at costs and benefits. Over the last five years this has cost Canadians about $2 per head. That is very inexpensive when we are looking at public safety. We also have to look at the benefits. We are now administering the program and saving roughly $30 million that the police otherwise would have spent in the administration.

This is good legislation. Why is the hon. member and his party trying to undermine this legislation?

[Garry Breitkreuz, Canadian Alliance, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

Sources inside the justice department told us last August that the gun registry budget for this fiscal year was $260 million alone. That would put the total cost of the registry at more than $585 million, half a billion dollars more than the original estimate.

Will the President of the Treasury Board explain why there are only two oversight committees in Treasury Board, and why both of them have to do with firearms? Why have these expenditures not come to parliament for approval.

[John Maloney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the total costs over the last five years are roughly $327 million. This includes the $85 million set up cost.

When the system is fully implemented, we will be looking at roughly $60 million per year to administer it. The cost of the fees will pay for that.

Oil Heating Prices

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a few weeks before the election was called, the government decided to send out $125 rebate cheques, supposedly to offset the increase in the price of heating oil for needy Canadians. It is obvious that this hastily thought up scheme to get more votes has done nothing to improve matters.

My question for the Minister of Finance is this: Does the minister realize that, far from being a lasting solution, his vote getting scheme had no other purpose than to portray him as sympathetic to voters, especially those in the greatest need?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the program was to help the needy with a cheque of $125 per individual and $250 per family, for a total of $1.3 billion. It has been quite a success, with 11 million Canadians receiving cheques. This is a great help right now.