Debates of March 19th, 2001

The Economy

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I fully agree with the policy of the government and of the Prime Minister, which has given us increased available income and increased productivity and growth. In fact, we have had the best growth among all G-7 countries this year. That policy has also given us four years of employment growth, which is the best performance among all G-7 countries. It is these fundamentals that, in the end, determine the value of a country's currency.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a month ago I heard the finance minister say in New York that the value of the dollar was a reflection of the productivity of our economy. He said that the fundamentals were right.

Let us see. We have the highest income taxes in the G-7, the highest corporate income taxes in the OECD, the second highest debt in the G-7 and the second highest level of foreign indebtedness in the industrialized world.

How can he stand here while our dollar continues to go through the floor and say that it is irresponsible for opposition members to ask that the government bring in a monetary fiscal policy which restores real value to our currency that reflects the wealth of the nation?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is really incumbent upon the finance critic for the opposition to get his facts right. The fact is that our capital gains taxes are lower than the United States. Our corporate taxes are going to be lower than the United States. We have just brought in the largest income tax cuts in Canadian history, substantially greater than the United States.

The hon. member talks about debt. The fact is that over the course of the last four years we will have paid down $28 billion worth of debt. That is substantially more than what the Alliance called for. We also have the largest decline in our debt to GDP ratio of any G-7 country. Those are the facts.

Auberge Grand-Mère

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in May 1999, before the Standing Committee on Industry, the ethics counsellor was very clear about the Prime Minister's interests in the Grand-Mère golf club. He said, first, that the Prime Minister had yet to be paid for his shares, second, that the sale seemed imminent and, third, that the Prime Minister had decided to hold negotiations.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. In the matter of the Grand-Mère golf club, does he acknowledge that negotiations involving the Prime Minister were still going on in 1999, as the ethics counsellor mentioned?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, on March 16, Mr. Wilson, the ethics counsellor told Newsworld “I have access to all the documents, I have seen all the documents, I have been able to examine them. This is a matter of personal information of the parties, including people other than Mr. Chrétien. I can, however, confirm, to my complete satisfaction, that his shares were sold in 1993 and that they were never again in his possession”.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it was all very well for the Deputy Prime Minister to quote the ethics counsellor, but, in the same testimony, the same ethics counsellor said that the Prime Minister had not been paid for his shares.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister admit that the chances of the Prime Minister recovering his money were much better with the Auberge Grand-Mère in much better financial health, since it was financed by the Business Development Bank of Canada, than with the Auberge Grand-Mère in bankruptcy?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am willing to give the hon. member the same information I have just given in French. I will give it to him in English.

Last week the ethics counsellor also told the Canadian press the following:

I am satisfied, and have been for an awfully long time, that the Prime Minister sold his shares in 1993. I am absolutely certain that (the Prime Minister) did not own those shares between 1993 and 1999—I've gone through this very, very carefully, seen the original sale documents from 1993, seen the documents from 1999.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when they have nothing more to say on the other side, they translate.

The Prime Minister approached the president of the Business Development Bank of Canada in order to counter an unfavourable opinion expressed by analysts, who had told the bank not to lend any money, that it was not a good file. He personally intervened.

I ask this to the Deputy Prime Minister. When he intervened, did the Prime Minister not do a good business man lobby, since the positive outcome of his efforts considerably increased his chances of being paid and being paid a good price?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

No, Mr. Speaker.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by intervening with the Business Development Bank of Canada, when these shares had not yet been paid for, the Deputy Prime Minister should admit that the Prime Minister acted in his own interest. At that point, he infringed not only the code of ethics, but the Criminal Code as well.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I ask the hon. member to repeat his unfounded insinuations outside the House. If he is not prepared to do that, he must withdraw his remarks, because they are false, false, false.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are concerned about food safety and appropriately concerned about food additives and their effects on human health.

The government appears to be on the verge of approving a powerful antibiotic, Baytril, for use in poultry. The build up of antibiotics in the food chain is a bad idea. Even the U.S. has said no to Baytril, calling for a ban on its usage. The Americans have come off the fence on this issue. What is Canada waiting for?

[Yvon Charbonneau, Liberal, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the use of Baytril in poultry and cattle has not yet been approved in Canada.

In addition, I must state on behalf of the Minister of Health that drug bureau evaluators have not been pressured in any way to give approval. Data can be interpreted differently by different scientists and there are mechanisms to resolve this.

The public can rest assured that these mechanisms are indeed preserving the safety of the food Canadians eat.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is cause for increasing concern that the government keeps trying to shut up our scientists. Despite that, scientists are speaking out about the risks associated with pumping powerful antibiotics into the food chain. The government has no time for scientists' warnings based on solid research but lots of time for pharmaceutical lobbyists and their self-promotion.

Why does the government not stop beating up on scientists and start serving as an advocate for scientifically proven food safety?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of my hon. friend's question is totally wrong. Scientists in the health department are carrying out their jobs in the interest of public safety and in the interest of Canadians.

The member's first question concerns the drug Baytril. It has not been approved in Canada for use in poultry and cattle. Evaluators in the Health Canada Bureau of Veterinary Drugs have not been pressured to approve this antibiotic, nor has there been any threat of disciplinary action.

The hon. member ought to withdraw her unfounded allegations on which she bases her question.

Ethics Counsellor

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Between 1996 and 1999 we know the Prime Minister's lawyer was involved actively on the Prime Minister's behalf trying to find a buyer for the golf club shares.

The Canadian Alliance has now revealed that between 1996 and 1998 a unanimous shareholder agreement was signed by the shareholders of the company that owns the golf course.

I have a simple question: Was the Prime Minister's lawyer, or anyone else acting on his behalf, a signatory to this unanimous shareholder's agreement?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question by the leader of the Conservative Party, at the request of the ethics counsellor, the director general of the corporations directorate will examine the records of the Grand-Mère golf course. Once the examination is completed, the director general will either confirm the accuracy of the 1997-98 annual return or will ask the company for a corrected return. I suggest we await that information.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, once again a non-reply. I would like to put a supplementary question to the Minister of Industry.

Tomorrow, the ethics counsellor will be testifying before the Standing Committee on Industry. Is the minister going to encourage the Liberal members of the committee to allow the broadest possible range of questions to be asked of Mr. Wilson in connection with his two key responsibilities, i.e. lobbying and conflicts of interest?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how it works in the Conservative Party, but in the Liberal Party Liberal members use their brains and their imaginations and ask whatever questions they want before a standing committee.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I know Liberal members certainly use their imagination a lot because the Minister of Industry said that the case was closed. He said that an objective analysis of this issue was already done. He said that a definitive statement had been made and that everyone “has closed the file” on it, but that file has been pried open again.

The ethics counsellor obviously did not look at the books. The minister just said that. Has the minister instructed him to do a “corrected return” on that?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

No, Mr. Speaker, I have not instructed anybody to do anything. The directorate will do its job and do it in the normal way, the way we do with respect to any corporation in the country. It is no different from any other circumstances.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

That is good news, Mr. Speaker. We await the results. The minister was wrong, though, when he said originally that the golf course was in a “blind trust” and he admitted that in the House.

Now he is wrong again. The case is not closed but perhaps it is just beginning. Very soon the minister's department in the investigation will learn the identity of that fourth secret shareholder between the years of 1996 and 1999, not now and not away earlier but between 1996 and 1999.

Because it is just a regular review, will the Minister of Industry say that he will stand and say who that shareholder was as soon as he learns it?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, once again we have the innuendo which has been evident in nearly every question being put forward by the member opposite. She ought to await the outcome of a normal routine review of this firm.

It is precisely that kind of talk which cost the taxpayers of Alberta $800,000. I would suggest she proceed more carefully.

Business Development Bank Of Canada

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister again says that he has been exonerated by the RCMP after a cursory investigation relating to his intervention with the President of the Business Development Bank of Canada.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister agree that, if the RCMP had known that the person who approached the president of the BDC was also the owner of shares in the Grand-Mère golf course, its conclusions might have been far different?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP operates at arm's length from the Government. The hon. member needs to ask his questions of the RCMP.