Debates of Sept. 18th, 2001

Supply

[Myron Thompson, Canadian Alliance, Wild Rose, AB]

Terrorists.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague across the way is saying terrorists, and I have to tell you that even if the charges are capital offences, they do not know how to write. Someone has written this down wrong.

[Some hon. members]

Detention.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order, please. I just want to remind colleagues that notwithstanding the emotions, the strength of the views and the feelings, all comments must be directed through the Chair. I encourage all hon. members to be very judicious.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The sixth paragraph reads “the detention and deportation to their country of origin of any people illegally in Canada or failed refugee claimants”. My riding of Scarborough--Agincourt has seen wave after wave of immigrants. A lot of the people are here illegally or are in Canada seeking refuge. I have worked with the people as a member of parliament for the last 18 years and have seen them come into Canada as refugees. Today they are prominent Canadians. They are people with businesses. They are people who have what it takes to be Canadian and are taxpaying citizens.

I believe that we must give calm and reasoned thought to what Canada's action should be and even greater thought as to the long term outcome of our actions. The phrase act in haste and repent at leisure is one that we must heed.

The evil perpetrators of the horror represent no community or religion. They stand for evil, nothing less. My colleague made comments about his family and sister in the United States. I too have friends in the United States and share his views. However, in regard to some of the things that are put forward in the motion, I have to ask my colleague through you, Mr. Speaker, how can he stand and support it in view of what his other colleagues are saying?

[Chuck Cadman, Canadian Alliance, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the member read the motion a little more closely. We are talking about people who have been linked to or who have committed acts of terrorism. We are not talking about people who have necessarily violated the criminal code in this country or whatever. We are talking about people who have committed acts of terrorism.

I too have a large immigrant community in my constituency. It is those people themselves who are coming to me asking for this kind of legislation. We have to listen to them because they know what is going on in their own community. They know the people who are in their community and who they do not want. They know that the people they do not want in the community are causing them to all be tarred with the same brush, which they do not appreciate.

It is the immigrants in my community who are demanding this kind of legislation.

[Andy Savoy, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time.

On September 11, 2001, we as Canadians expressed a multitude of unpleasant emotions: sorrow, fear, outrage and grief to name a few.

Today I would like to speak about how we as Canadians grieved with and for our neighbours and I would like to highlight some of the actions taken by constituents of Tobique--Mactaquac.

First and foremost, on behalf of the residents of Tobique--Mactaquac I want to offer my condolences to those people whose lives have been devastated by this tragedy.

In 1783, when the Webster-Ashburton treaty drew a demarcation line between the state of the Main and the province of New Brunswick, a relationship that transcends any geographical barrier was already formed.

Since 1783, the border that separates Maine and New Brunswick has in most respects remained invisible. We are bound by strong historical, social, cultural, economic and family ties with our neighbours to the south.

The majority of constituents in my riding can claim Americans among their kin. They can also count Americans among their most important business patrons and partners.

The biggest industries in my riding have plants on both sides of the border: McCain Foods, with plants in Easton and Ashland, Maine, and Grand Falls and Florenceville, New Brunswick; Norbord and Nexfor, with sawmills in Ashland, Maine, Juniper and Plaster Rock, New Brunswick, to name a few.

For centuries the Maine-New Brunswick border has united rather than divided us. This was never more evident than on Friday, September 14, when over 400 people filled the Woodstock Community College gymnasium for a sermon to remember the victims of last Tuesday's terrorist attacks.

The response was remarkable, given that my offices, together with the Woodstock Ministerial Association, had only begun promoting the national day of mourning event four hours earlier.

Some $2,000 was collected for the Canadian Red Cross at this multi-faith service and sympathies to the American people were expressed in books of condolences. The books are now being circulated throughout the riding. Once filled, they will be delivered to Maine congressman John Baldacci, with whom I formed a friendship during a spring softwood lumber lobby in Washington, D.C.

Ironically, Congressman Baldacci and I were to co-host a cross-border summit last Saturday to exchange information and develop ways to increase trade between our two countries.

In the service's closing prayer, Canon Walter Williams recognized the humanitarian efforts of one young individual, Candace Salmon, who was at that moment in neighbouring Houlton, Maine, for a similar service.

Moved by the horrific images she watched on television, the grade 12 student decided she would do her part to help heal the wounds. On her own initiative Candace collected over $300 on her lunch hours, purchased flowers from her donations and presented the plants and donations to border guards at Houlton, Maine. She then took the remaining proceeds to Houlton High School where the school's civil liberties class accepted her donation on behalf of the American Red Cross.

So touched were the students by Candace's act of selfless generosity that some openly wept. Before Candace and her friend left the Houlton school that day, her Maine peers presented her with multicoloured ribbons, symbols of sympathy and solidarity, to give to her classmates back in Woodstock. It was agreed that their two schools would develop an exchange program to build on cross border relations between the regions' youth.

I ask my fellow MPs to let Candace be an inspiration to us all, for in one gesture of kindness and compassion she lifted the hearts of those who grieved, aided rescue and relief efforts with money for the American Red Cross and initiated a new partnership for youth in two border communities.

May we follow Candace's example in the days and weeks ahead of us as we aid our greatest friend and ally. Let us show compassion and support and let us share resources with the United States in its hour of need.

Candace's actions embody the spirit of co-operation and friendship my riding has enjoyed for centuries with our neighbours to the south. I ask all Canadians to let this spirit be the guide to our actions as we struggle to come to grips with this unspeakable act of evil.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague, the member for Tobique--Mactaquac.

We all share in the shock, the horror, the revulsion and the sadness as a result of the events that took place in the United States on September 11. This was indeed a senseless and cowardly act committed by a very few fanatics willing to give up their lives for a cause that is difficult to piece together and comprehend. They have really turned the whole world upside down.

Some heroic efforts need to be acknowledged and heralded: the passengers who probably charged the cockpit crew, probably saving countless lives in Pennsylvania; the work of the fire men and women, the police officers and other rescue workers who lost their lives trying to save the victims, and this work continues.

Canadians and people around the world have responded in a remarkable way with messages of condolence, support and sadness; with the giving of blood; with the donations of many kinds and different descriptions; and in many other ways.

There are some who jumped at the alleged Canadian connection and now it appears that 17 of the terrorists spent many years in the United States. However the message is that all nations need to look at their security, look at their approach and look at their responses. We all need to tighten up. We need to be resolute.

We must have measured action in the short term but, more important, in the medium and long term. New approaches to intelligence gathering and infiltration will be part of the longer term solution in my view. The fact that these terrorists were able to stay underneath the radar of the intelligence community is a cause for concern. We need many more rapid responses to aircraft that deviate from approved flight paths and more airport and aircraft security. I was delighted that the Minister of Transport said that the cockpit doors must be sealed.

All Canadians need to remember that this is a fight against terrorists, not against any community or single group. In my riding of Etobicoke North, I have a Muslim community which met last week to show their support for action. They abhor the terrorist action that resulted in the loss of so many lives in the United States.

Does the member for Tobique--Mactaquac have such communities in his riding and, if so, how are they responding? I am sure they are responding in a similar way in that this is something that needs to be dealt with but that we cannot target individual groups. We must all realize that this terrorist action was as a result of a very small number of people who were committed and were fanatics. I hope that message is coming through in his riding as well, although he may not have the diversity that is present in some of the urban ridings in Canada.

[Andy Savoy, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, within our riding we share border communities: Woodstock, New Brunswick with Houlton, Maine; Perth-Andover, New Brunswick with Fort Fairfield, Maine; Grand Falls, New Brunswick with Limestone, Maine. Within each of those communities, the families are related on both sides of the border. We have aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers and sisters living on both sides. The border really unites us as opposed to dividing us.

We are grieving with them jointly because we are all related in that area to our neighbours to the south.

[Gerald Keddy, Progressive Conservative, South Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, while listening to the member for Tobique--Mactaquac, I heard a certain amount of rhetoric. I also heard the questions from the government side. However I want to hear some answers and some taking of responsibility by the Parliament of Canada. What are we going to do about a very real threat that not only threatens our borders but affects the internal safety of our citizens and the economy of the country?

It is okay for the Minister of Transport to say that he will lock the cockpit doors but how will he make cockpit doors that cannot be kicked down?

The legislation should be ready and it should be coming forward very quickly. We have a number of issues.

Does the member know whether the government intends to increase security for not only detecting arms, bombs and such things in baggage but to also have thorough checks at the airports. Who will pay for that? When will it be put in place? Will we reinforce CSIS? Will we reinforce the RCMP? Will we give the military the tools to fight terrorism?

This is an issue that goes beyond. Our hearts went out first to the victims and to the people who tried to rescue them. Second, now is the time--

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order, please. I know this is a subject that many people want to speak on or ask questions and comments, but to facilitate as many members participating as possible we need to stay within the timeframes that we allot ourselves for speeches and for questions and comments. I will take a brief response from the member for Tobique--Mactaquac.

[Andy Savoy, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, we will live up to our NATO commitments and we will stand shoulder to shoulder with our American allies. We will come up with a solution but it will not be a knee-jerk solution. It will be a well thought out, well devised solution that respects the intent of our relationship with the Americans.

[John Bryden, Liberal, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to address my remarks to one narrow aspect of the motion before us and that is the part of the motion that calls on anti-terrorism legislation that should specifically ban fundraising for the purposes of supporting terrorism anywhere in the world. It is all very well to pass legislation like that but if there is not the ability to actually implement a ban like that then it falls far short of what is desired.

Mr. Speaker, you of all people will remember that for many years now I have been an active campaigner for the reform of Canada's charity legislation and regulations. You will know and remember, Mr. Speaker, that I did two reports in which I examined some 500 charities. I examined their financial information returns, compared them to the published financial statements that they put out and kept track of them in a general fashion.

Mr. Speaker, you will also remember that what I found was that Canada's $90 billion charity industry runs essentially without any kind of legislative oversight whatsoever. In other words, the money is being raised by big charities and small charities across the land and is being spent and no one knows how it is being raised or where it is being spent.

I am the first to say that there are many very good charities but the reality is Canada has become notorious worldwide for the ease with which a terrorist organizations and groups engaged in ethnic conflicts in various parts of the world use Canada's absence of meaningful not for profit legislation in order to raise money here in Canada and transfer those funds to support these conflicts abroad.

Mr. Speaker, I know you will find this hard to believe and many of the members in the House will probably be surprised to hear this, but the reality is that there are only guidelines for charities in Canadian federal legislation. There are no actual standards of financial reporting. There are no standards of corporate governance and we have a situation where a charity can raise a million dollars or so. A small charity with some ethnic ties abroad can raise this money and there is no mechanism at all for the federal government to determine how that money was raised because there is no requirement to keep receipts. The money can then be disbursed by third parties. It literally can be transferred out of the country and spent by a third party in ways that we will never know.

This is obviously an invitation to all kinds of abuse. This is not the time, in this particular sensitive time, to actually name the type of organizations or name the specific organizations that I have encountered that are engaged in very unusual activities.

However, let me give the House an example of what I discovered. I discovered, for example, a very large and well known charity that engages in overseas community project development which was receiving millions of dollars a year from the Canadian government to further these developments in third world countries abroad. When I attempted to get from the charity the names of these organizations, I could get brochures and beautiful pictures and all those kinds of thing, but the charity was never able to supply me with the names of the organizations, the addresses or the telephone numbers. In this particular case it was in India where it was actually operating. The irony was that in this particular instance the Canadian International Development Agency actually sent a team abroad to look at this particular development. They looked at it and made a report but two years later, even though it was still receiving money, there was no trace of it. We have to ask ourselves what this charity was doing with the money that it was actually receiving from the Government of Canada?

In another instance I found a charity that was not an ethnic charity at all. It was engaged in a certain activity abroad that was regarded in the public interest. I will not say what that activity was but it involved officials from the charity leaving Canada and going to various countries, generally in the Middle East. An audit was done on that charity by CIDA and it was found that the charity officials were carrying tens of thousands of dollars in cash by airplane to the Middle East.

Mr. Speaker, I just leave it to your imagination what an organization, what individuals would possibly be doing bringing cash into the Middle East when I would point out to you that the Middle East is not the end of the world. It is possible to have proper electronic transfers of money to this part of the world so you have to ask yourself what is going on.

The numbers of instances of this kind of thing are, I am sorry to say, legion. I do not like to suggest even for a moment that all charities are engaged in this kind of thing but the reality is that we as a country, indeed we as a federal government, have failed absolutely in our responsibility to Canadians and our responsibility to ethnic Canadians, those people who have settled in Canada and taken out Canadian citizenship or just settled in Canada. Our responsibility to them is to guarantee that they are not subject to pressure from their homelands to finance conflicts that still exist in their homelands. This is not just a question about whether money is being raised in this country to finance terrorism abroad, it is a question of whether money is being raised in this country to finance the ethnic conflicts in the various homelands.

I have made many representations to government on this. About two years ago it did appear that cabinet was prepared to look at the not for profit sector and bring in some legislation and some rules that particularly pertain to the transparency in their financial dealings. I regret to say that because of, I think, a very strong lobby from the very large charitable organizations and the charity leadership in this country, the government backed off. I think the argument was that the charity industry, even though it is a very large industry, was not willing to accept the red tape that comes from keeping good financial books.

I should say in passing that under Canadian legislation a charity, no matter how large or how small, does not require a proper auditor to do its books. Basically anyone can do the books of a charity. The only reporting a charity is required to do is a financial information return to Revenue Canada. There is no law on the books that even requires the charity to fill out the lines.

The official opposition raised the point that the legislation that was introduced, Bill C-16, was designed to lift the charitable registration status of organizations that are suspected by the security services of raising money for illegal activities abroad. What I must point out is that this falls completely short of actually solving the problem or even coming close to answering the problem.

The reality is that because of the Access to Information Act we cannot see even the non-profit organizations' financial statements to government. In other words, the world police organizations have recognized that because of Canada's open or lack of legislation with respect to charities, we are the most backward of all nations with respect to legislation on charities. Because of that, we are a favoured nation for raising funds, not only for terrorism but for ethnic conflicts and, I fear, even for organized crime.

[The Deputy Speaker]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Cumberland--Colchester, Lumber Industry.

[Art Hanger, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member's comments and he certainly confined them to a certain area when it comes to the fundraising activities of potential terrorist organizations that may or may not exist in Canada, creating an atmosphere of uncertainty as to how a government agency could dissuade or shut down any such operation.

It is a well known fact that there is a myriad of information accumulated by the RCMP, CSIS and other agencies in Canada. In the particular document I hold in my hand there is a summary of known terrorist organizations in Canada that have been watched and examined thoroughly. The evidence is insurmountable when it comes to their ties outside our country and what those mother organizations are involved in internationally.

I see no problem in monitoring such groups in Canada. I know that even in the House there have been members of parliament, some knowingly, some unknowingly, participating in fundraising activities put on by these organizations. The information is here and elsewhere to be able to curb such activity that would shut them down once and for all.

I would like the member to comment on that very subject because this is not a difficult matter to deal with when it comes to passing legislation that will prevent such organizations from existing in Canada.

[John Bryden, Liberal, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the point is that we do not have the information because the government has never collected the information. CSIS has its undercover agents, but what I am talking about are thousands of organizations that are collecting money, transferring it abroad and spending it.

CSIS cannot track every one of those organizations. It is the fault and flaw of this government and governments before it that it is politically incorrect to question charities. The government has made no effort to require charities to be transparent, to keep the same kind of financial books that a for profit organization requires.

To make it even worse, all non-profit organizations, and I am not talking about charities, are entitled and do operate in financial secrecy, and not even the Prime Minister can tell what they are doing. Nor can CSIS. The member has to appreciate that CSIS has to work within the law and what I am saying is that there is no law for CSIS to work within.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to go on a different tact with the hon. member regarding concerns people have mentioned about bin Laden having over $300 million. I am sure he does not carry that amount of money around in his pocket or suitcase. He must have that money channelled in offshore accounts, Swiss bank accounts or whatever.

Does the member see a role for the government to play in offering help to the international community to find out where that money is and in freezing it or taking it away so that these terrorist acts will not be funded in that way?

[John Bryden, Liberal, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Aldershot, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was very disappointed in Bill C-22, the money laundering act that has now since passed the Senate. I felt that the same rules that pertained to money laundering at casinos should be applied to charities. Therein there is the same requirement for scrutiny and disclosure and reporting of transfers of large sums from charities because huge sums can now be transferred.

On the point regarding bin Laden, I have before me a newspaper clipping of some years ago which tells the story of a member of a large charitable organization who was caught crossing the border from the United States into Canada with over $1 million in cash in his trunk and under the carpet of his car. There are many ways for organizations, be they charitable, legal or criminal, to move money around.

[Deepak Obhrai, Canadian Alliance, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, before I begin my speech I would like to commend my colleague from the other side who has done extensive work and was completely forthright today when he stood in the House and told the truth regarding the rules and laws which his government refuses to implement. For that I commend him. He has done a great job.

I would like to begin by extending on behalf of my family, my colleagues and myself our deepest condolences to the families of the victims of Tuesday's unprecedented terrorist attack in the United States.

What we witnessed a week ago today will forever be ingrained in our minds as a new menace facing all peace loving communities of the world. This act was perpetrated by spiritually bankrupt individuals without conscience and devoid of love who think nothing of the rights of others. I say that they were spiritually bankrupt because these individuals have no love and compassion for others.

Religious leaders of all faiths have condemned this act and reaffirmed their religions' most important tenet, which is that the taking of innocent lives is never justified.

I am also concerned with and condemn with the same breath the intolerant acts taking place in North America against minority groups. This is also a crime.

The death of two individuals in the U.S.A., the beating of a youth in Ottawa, the burning of a Hindu temple in Hamilton and the harassment of Muslims around our nation are all crimes. The full wrath of our law should be brought against those responsible for these acts. Our society is built on tolerance and freedom. These we will protect both domestically and internationally.

Over 5,000 people died last Tuesday. Those who died came from over 40 countries. This is a crime against humanity and as such we must stand together to fight these crimes. Those who join us are united in brotherhood to fight this menace. Those who refuse to join us will be apologetic forever as we move forward without them.

Canada has to join this battle or we will become future victims of this menace. Unfortunately we are already victims having also lost citizens in this tragedy.

As this is international terrorism our focus has fallen on our immigration laws. Let me be clear that this is not about immigration or refugee policy but rather immigration and refugee law.

The debate concerns the adequacy of our laws to protect us from those who intend to break our laws and use our laws to promote these hideous crimes. We are talking of a small minority but nevertheless a minority that has no conscience. We must guard against them. For that purpose it is important that we have the right laws that allow us to tackle this menace.

Immigrants and refugees themselves run this course of action because in the end they become the victims of those who break the laws and commit these hideous crimes. Unfortunately we are witnessing these acts.

Canada is a land of immigrants where diversity is our strength. Let us not allow these criminals to break our strength. Therefore I urge the government to act to ensure that the weak links in our immigration laws are tightened. We must listen to the suggestions of Canadians.

Calling people who are pointing to the flaws in our immigration laws racists and bigots has the effect of strengthening racists and bigots because terrorists are racists and bigots. I hope the minister of immigration will take note of this.

Another area that requires attention is giving law enforcement agencies the tools to fight terrorism. Today's motion is an important step in that direction. Law enforcement officers are our new soldiers in this battle. Let us give them the tools they need and our full support. However I need to say a word of caution to our law enforcement agencies. They should ensure that these tools do not become the tools of harassment of the innocent or they will lose this battle.

Terrorism is born from poverty. Canada should fight this new war, but Canada should also assist those developing states that are also joining the fight against terrorism. We cannot allow the seeds of terror to be sown in those states that wish to help us in our hour of need.

We must not forget that most societies are built on respect for human rights, democracy and the rule of law. We cannot allow those few to shake the foundation of what we have built. People have come from around the world to build this free and prosperous society, and this should not change. We should not shake this great foundation.

[Greg Thompson, Progressive Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Speaker, because of circumstances and a limited debate I will not have a chance to rise on debate today. However I wanted to take the time during questions and comments to simply extend my sympathy to the American people and the families of the victims of that horrible tragedy that took place a week ago today in New York City. I am doing it on behalf of the constituents of New Brunswick Southwest.

It really drives home the point that none of us are safe in a world of terrorists. It certainly is a war against civilized society. It is a war that we all have to fight. We can all do our part, including every member of parliament. We are depending on the government of this country to show leadership on this issue. We hope that it does.

We certainly hope that the debate today leads to measures to be taken by the government to do what is necessary because the attack on the United States was not an attack on their country as such. It was an attack upon all of civilized society.

As Canadians we will pay a high price for that. We already have in the sense that at least 100 Canadians and maybe more have lost their lives in New York. However every one of us has certainly lost a sense of innocence. We do not take our freedoms and the luxuries that we have had as a free and open society as lightly as we did a week ago.

My sympathies to the American people. I want them to know this because I do share a border with them. Most Canadians live within an hour's drive of the U.S. Personally I will do what I can as a member of parliament to sustain them through this. I will do what I can as a member of parliament to ensure that the Canadian government does the right thing as we follow up on this horrendous event.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in his speech, our honourable colleague from Calgary East raised something I consider very important in the light of the events of September 11.

Among other things, he mentioned international development and poverty. He also spoke of help to developing countries which are also trying to build democracies and to fight violence where possible.

As the events of September 11 were unfolding, I was attending a meeting of parliamentarians from around the world. There were 1,000 of us gathered in one of the world's poorest countries, in central Africa.

I noted that cuts in assistance to developing countries have resulted in major tragedies in certain areas of Africa and elsewhere in the world.

I would like to know the position of the member for Calgary East on international development and the aid we provide to developing countries. We know that Canada has cut its aid to developing countries. If memory serves, we spend less than 0.4% of our GDP on international assistance.

Could the member for Calgary East tell me his opinion on this?

[Deepak Obhrai, Canadian Alliance, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for giving me this opportunity to talk about international development. There are two connections here.

He talked about poverty around the world. The causes of poverty are many. Causes can be attributed to a lack of governance, opportunity and corruption and other issues for which unfortunately the poor have to pay the price. I just returned from Africa where I witnessed the unfortunate tragedy of AIDS and bad governments.

However, what I was trying to say in my speech against terrorism and what I was trying to say about the support which we need to give to countries that will stand with us to fight this new menace, is that many countries lack the resources to help us in fight these terrorists.

Those countries, which need assistance, have pledged to stand with us against terrorism. While we have military and naval intelligence and other kinds of solutions, these countries will require assistance to sustain themselves. At the end of the day we do not want these countries, through internal turmoil, to break down creating a new state as we witnessed in Somalia.

To stop the growth of terrorism and the recruitment of terrorists, it is important for us to assist those countries.

[Werner Schmidt, Canadian Alliance, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a very sad and rare opportunity that we have to face at this time in Canada, the United States and in the civilized world a tragedy such as what we had last Tuesday.

It goes without saying that our condolences and sympathies go out to the parents, friends, associates and all those people who have suffered the loss of loved ones.

One of the first thoughts I had was how terrible that this happened and I felt immediately the pain of the parents, brothers and sisters who were lost. However, there was a second thought that came to mind, which was what kind of minds would make the kinds of choices or decisions to do what they did. This was something that was done in some kind of vacuum. Somebody thought and planned very carefully what to do, when to do it, where to do it and what the effect would be.

Who are these terrorists? I have to conclude very carefully that the terrorist is a fanatic who has a disposition for unlimited violence. If that is what a terrorist is, then what we have perpetrated in the world today, as Mr. Schroeder said in Germany, is a war declared against civilization and democracy.

All democracies will have to get together to fight it, as Tony Blair said. However, probably the best statement was by Mr. Steyn, as reported in the National Post . He said:

This is freedom's fight--not an argument about “foreign policy” or “tensions and hostilities,” but a war on values.

It is about joining the fight for democracy and defending civilization. If it is a matter of values, we should look at why we are in this situation. We stand here in some ways almost sanctimoniously saying thank God we are not like that.

We just heard how we are harbouring certain terrorists in our country, and we say we are not like. How is this possible? I believe this is possible because we have a certain phenomenon developing in our universities and high schools, among our parents and even among the members of parliament. It is called political correctness.

President Roche, of Hillsdale College, which is a very reputable private college in the United States, reached the conclusion that political correctness was to a large extent to blame. He said that the doctrine of political correctness held that all differences and ideas, values and lifestyles were equally valid

We have had demonstrated to us as never before that values and lifestyles do differ and that there are some that are more important than others. We certainly do not tolerate or want to value dictatorship in the same way we do democracy, as one example.

We need to recognize that it is time to make a difference in the values that we hold dear and those that we want to support. I will list what some of the values are.

The first is truth. If we do not protect the truth we are in serious trouble. A colleague in the House criticized the government for a lack of certain fortitude with regard to certain laws.

It has penetrated into our high schools and our universities. There is not a person here who has not read about the difficulty in one of our law schools. Kids were saying that it was okay to lie and cheat on exams because everybody did it. We need to establish the truth.

We have lost a large part of our moral literacy as well. Honour and virtue are very scarce commodities in our society today. It is time that we recognized that honour and virtue are good things to have.

To a large degree, we have lost trust in one another to a large degree.

On the one hand we distrust politicians, film makers and television, then we turn around and look to our politicians, film makers and television to tell us the truth, give us the facts and interpret the world around us. It is a contradiction.

We also have lost trust in our fellow citizens. There are many members in the House from different parties. Somehow we are supposed to be fundamentally different from one another. On these things we must not be different.

We need to trust one another. We need to be able to depend on one another, but it is more than that. We have lost empathy. We pass people who are suffering and think that it cannot be that bad. That changed last week. We have demonstrated empathy like never before. In a heartfelt manner, people wanted to help. However, many of us will go back callously into our communities and ignore the problems and the suffering that exists there? We need to re-establish our empathy.

We have also lost the feeling of independence and confidence to solve our own problems. It is almost as if our problems are so big and so complicated that only the government can solve them. The government did not decide upon this terrorist act. This act was decided upon by an individual or a group of individuals. They were confident they could do it and they did it.

We can solve our problems but they will be solved one person at a time. Where will we start? In the family. We need to recognize the family as the solid, most powerful and effective building block of a society in building a civilization. What has happened? In many instances our children are not in families. They are with single parents. They need the love of a mother and a father. They need the stability of people who have committed their lifetime to each other and their children.

We have also lost faith to a large degree. I was terribly saddened when I saw 100,000 people assembled on Parliament Hill last Friday in remembrance of what had happened. The Prime Minister talked about prayer but there was no prayer. There was no reference to the spirituality of man.

We have lost sight of the fact that God is the most important guiding factor in our daily lives. We do not speak about Him in our social gatherings. We have a difficult time speaking about Him in the House. God is real. Whether one likes it or not is another issue. Whether one believes it or not is another issue. The truth stands whether one believes it or not. We can ignore gravity but it does not make it go away.

How can we protect ourselves? We can do a number of things. I would like to read into the record the words Pope Paul II when he addressed the United Nations in 1995.

We must not be afraid of the future. We must not be afraid of man. It is no accident that we are here. Each and every human person has been created in the “image and likeness” of the One who is the origin of all that is. We have within us the capacities for wisdom and virtue. With these gifts, and with the help of God's grace, we can build in the next century and the next millennium a civilization worthy of the human person, a true culture of freedom. We can and must do so! And in doing so, we shall see that the tears of this century have prepared the ground for a new springtime of the human spirit.

Let us dedicate ourselves to a pursuit of truth. Let us dedicate ourselves to a development of empathy. Let us become confident of our independence and our ability to solve problems. Let us trust one another to build a better country for our children and grandchildren.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I wish to seek unanimous consent to withdraw the motion in the name of the member for Crowfoot, as well as the amendment and replace the entire motion and amendment with the following, in an effort to perhaps have a motion that is acceptable to the entire House, which I hope is the case. The new motion would read that the House mandate the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to study the matter of anti-terrorism legislation and report at the earliest opportunity with recommendations for legislation.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

Does the hon. government House leader have the consent of the House to move the motion?