House of Commons Hansard #2 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was iraq.

Topics

Supply ManagementOral Question Period

October 1st, 2002 / 2:55 p.m.

Bloc

Louis Plamondon Bloc Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

While the whole agricultural industry expected the government to renew its commitment to maintaining and protecting supply management in the eggs, dairy and poultry sector, the Speech from the Throne is silent on this issue.

Consequently, is the minister prepared to renew his commitment, here in this House, to maintain the current supply management system, and will he pledge not to use it as a bargaining chip in future WTO negotiations, contrary to the secret memo issued by his department on August 7?

Supply ManagementOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Papineau—Saint-Denis Québec

Liberal

Pierre Pettigrew LiberalMinister for International Trade

Mr. Speaker, let me be very clear on this most important issue for our government.

The Minister of Agriculture and I were in Doha when, along with our colleagues from around the world, we decided to begin an important round of negotiations for our country.

In our mandate, it is very clear that supply management is among the objectives that we have to maintain a system that serves producers and consumers well in our country.

Our government firmly supports supply management. There is no doubt about that in anyone's mind.

Veterans AffairsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, for 50 years aboriginal and Métis veterans have been systematically denied the same rights and benefits that other soldiers receive. The paltry settlement of $20,000 now is less than one-quarter of even the most conservative estimate arrived at for the value of those benefits.

Will the Minister of Veterans Affairs agree to reopen this issue, revisit the issue and negotiate a fair compensation package that these aboriginal veterans so rightly deserve?

Veterans AffairsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Winnipeg North—St. Paul Manitoba

Liberal

Rey D. Pagtakhan LiberalMinister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary of State (Science

Mr. Speaker, the government was seized with this issue some two years ago. As soon as I was appointed to the ministry I sought to have this issue resolved.

As the member knows, I am not a negotiator; I am an advocate for veterans. I spoke to my government that we had an offer that should be seen as an offer of goodwill. It does not deal with the ascertainment of liability, absence or presence. It is an offer of goodwill.

I am pleased that the veterans have accepted the offer.

EmploymentOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Monte Solberg Canadian Alliance Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, the throne speech committed the government to a program to provide benefits for workers who leave their jobs to look after a dying family member.

How is the minister going to keep this new program separate from the EI program so that hard-pressed employers and workers do not have to bear the entire burden of what clearly is a social program?

EmploymentOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, each year many Canadians face the challenge of going to work and also being responsible for looking after a gravely ill child or a parent.

The hon. member might be interested to know that 77% of Canadians taking care of gravely ill family members took time off work and 56% took leave without pay.

Helping Canadians find a balance between the workplace and family is a priority for the government. The hon. member can rest assured that we will look for the appropriate solutions in concert with the private sector.

Government ContractsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Lanctôt Bloc Châteauguay, QC

Mr. Speaker, the internal investigation in the sponsorship scandal revealed that 20% of all sponsorship contracts were flawed. Yet, these contracts account for 80% of all the moneys allocated for sponsorships.

When 80% of all the moneys of a government program are spent in a manner that is flawed, does this not warrant an independent public inquiry?

Government ContractsOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Wascana Saskatchewan

Liberal

Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services

Mr. Speaker, with the former member for Windsor West within earshot, I must make the point that I thoroughly reject the premise of the question that has been put on the floor of the House of Commons.

I do not know where the hon. gentleman got the figure of 80%, but he is dead wrong.

Kyoto ProtocolOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

John Herron Progressive Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, on December 12, 1997 the Prime Minister and the premiers stated that first ministers agreed to establish a process in advance of Canada's ratification of the Kyoto protocol that will examine the consequences of Kyoto and provide for full participation of the provincial and territorial governments with the federal government in any implementation and management of the protocol.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister live up to that promise and not ratify Kyoto until Canadians know the consequences, the impact, the cost and the implementation strategy, or will this just be another Liberal broken promise?

Kyoto ProtocolOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Victoria B.C.

Liberal

David Anderson LiberalMinister of the Environment

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should sort out these issues in his mind.

The fact is that we very clearly want to have the full participation of the provinces and territories, the private sector, the general public and environmental organizations in creating a made in Canada plan for achieving our ratification goal of minus 6% of 1990 levels. That has been clear all along.

I would like to point out to the hon. member that for five years this process has been ongoing. I would like to point out to him as well that the ministers of environment and energy of the provinces and the federal government were asked by 14 first ministers to do this, not just by the Prime Minister.

Presence in GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

I draw to the attention of hon. members the presence in the gallery of Mr. Armen Khachatryan, Chairman of the National Assembly of the Republic of Armenia.

Presence in GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Presence in GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

I would also like to draw to the attention of hon. members the presence in the gallery of a delegation from the Northern Ireland Assembly led by the Speaker, Lord Alderdice.

Presence in GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Presence in GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

I would also like to draw to the attention of hon. members the presence in the gallery of two members of the International Joint Commission: the Hon. Dennis L. Schornack, Chairman of the U.S. Section, and the Right Hon. Herb Gray, Chairman of the Canadian Section.

Presence in GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

The House resumed consideration of the motion for an address to Her Excellency the Governor General in reply to her speech at the opening of the session, and of the amendment, and of the amendment to the amendment.

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I want to do two things in my remarks today. First, I want to talk about the benefits to my riding contained in the throne speech, and second, I want to refer to some comments made by members of the opposition parties. I listened to them carefully this morning and I would like to respond. Unfortunately my remarks on the benefits to my riding will take up virtually all of my time, but I will save my other remarks for question period and when the parties ask their questions, I could then comment on their comments.

I was delighted that a number of things in the throne speech will be very helpful for my riding. Last Friday I spoke at a conference and listed a few things I supported and I was very happy that these items showed up in the throne speech.

The first item was support for the headstart program which is very important to help in early childhood development. It has been very successful. I have been lobbying for a long time for an increase, and I was delighted to see it included in the throne speech.

The second item was support for small and medium size businesses to help them use emerging technologies. Everyone heard the loud applause this morning when the Prime Minister mentioned this type of support.

The third item relates to improving the regulatory environment. At the conference on Friday, a number of Yukoners came forward and said they wanted improvements in the regulatory environment. I told them I was very supportive of that and I was absolutely delighted to see it in the throne speech.

I was also very happy to see air quality included in the throne speech. Her Majesty's loyal opposition was happy as well because it suggested there should be help relating to pollution. Members might have missed it, but this item was included in the throne speech. I was delighted to see support for improving air quality because one of the Yukon medical associations lobbied me on that particular item.

One of the items that received the most applause was the 10 year infrastructure program. I was delighted to see that item in the throne speech because the last two iterations of the national infrastructure program have been very successful in the Yukon. They have helped all communities in some way or another. I was delighted to see it extended for a 10 year period. Local communities need to have a long time frame in which to do reasonable and logical capital planning. This will provide them with that. This is probably a very popular item with all parties across the country. The NDP in its response to the throne speech mentioned the importance of infrastructure.

I was delighted to see the extension of the supporting communities partnership program. This is another item that I had lobbied hard for. It is a program that supports homelessness initiatives.The Yukon has a very efficient and active committee which has done a number of innovative projects with that program but it realizes the job is not yet done. We were hoping the program would continue. I am delighted the minister responsible for homelessness, who has been doing a great job, was able to make that occur.

A number of initiatives to help first nations people were also included in the throne speech. Because my riding has a significant percentage of first nations people, perhaps 24% of the people in the Yukon, it will receive tremendous benefits from this.

Initiatives were included for new tools to deal with FAS. There were initiatives to improve support for skills and training of first nations people by increasing the funds for Aboriginal Business Canada. Money was included for early childhood intervention. There was support for health promotion and disease prevention in first nations communities. There was support for aboriginal children with special learning needs as well as support for aboriginal culture.

A very important item for my riding was support for the training of aboriginal people to take advantage of coming megaprojects in the country. Of the two or three mentioned, the northern pipeline was also included. The northern gas pipeline going through the Yukon with Alaska gas is the biggest industrial project in history, perhaps in the order of $20 billion, of which Canada will receive half of the construction benefits as the study showed. We are providing support for helping northern people and aboriginal people be trained to take advantage of this project and the thousands of person years and millions of dollars of contracts. That is great news for my riding and for the people of northern Canada.

I think all parties were equally happy that there was a big emphasis on health care in the throne speech. The Romanow commission is doing a very detailed study. It will come up with suggestions and recommendations for improving the health care system, which we have all agreed is a challenge.

In the meantime, as the Bloc emphasized, the Canadian government is continuing to move ahead. It is dealing with emerging risks in the health care system. It is going to work on dealing with new technologies in the health care system and adding more health prevention into the health care strategy for Canada. This is very important. In my riding health care advocates have long emphasized the importance of prevention in the health care system. We are very excited to see that. A national drug strategy is linked intricately to health care and we were delighted to see that in the throne speech.

There are also a number of other areas with which I do not think any of the other parties could quarrel and which I believe they support. They include increased support for things like literacy and research, and reducing the barriers in the workplace for people with disabilities. I was delighted to see that because just this week I had a discussion with a constituent on that specific topic.

I am also happy that the throne speech mentioned that the government is going to put into action the accord it has with the voluntary sector. I have spoken a number of times in the House about the importance of volunteers to our society in Canada and the great contribution they make. I will be glad to see us move forward on that front.

I think everyone supports the increase to the child benefit, a very important element in the throne speech. This will help all Canadians, especially those children in poor families. How could people argue with other items in the throne speech such as helping families with gravely ill children or dealing with increased drug addiction?

As chair of the foreign affairs, defence and international cooperation caucus, I was very happy that the throne speech emphasized Canada's support for the rule of international law and for the United Nations, while maintaining that the United States is our closest and best ally. I was happy to see the reaffirmation of the fact that there is going to be a review of foreign affairs and defence policies to put them in line with today's world which has changed dramatically since the last throne speech. Coming out of those reviews, as from the Romanow commission, will be recommendations that we can act upon to deal with the problems that have been carefully and logically studied to respond to today's needs.

Another area is international cooperation and foreign aid. I can imagine that my colleagues on that committee are delighted about the increases announced to help the poorer nations. There are a lot of items in the throne speech to help poor people in Canada but this extends to the poorer people in the world. Another item which does that, and which members may not mention in the House too much, is that we are going to eliminate tariffs and quotas for most products for the least developed countries. When they try to attain self-dependence to get off foreign aid and do something for themselves such as making products and services, they will be able to sell them to the western world if we can reduce those tariffs and quotas to give them a chance to succeed.

In closing, I am also delighted in the way this is going to be accomplished and resourced. I was delighted to hear that we will be doing old spending in new ways. The Prime Minister emphasized that we are still going to have a balanced budget and that the debt to GDP ratio will continue to decline so there will not be an extra burden on our finances. Yet all these people in areas I have outlined relating to children and poverty, the environment and health will be helped.

This will be a worthy chapter in Canada's history. A country is judged, as we have heard many times before, not by how it helps the wealthy but by what it does for those most in need. This will be a very worthy final chapter in the Prime Minister's 40 year history in the House of Commons, with the support of his cabinet colleagues, in the area of assistance for people who should be helped in Canada.

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:15 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

James Moore Canadian Alliance Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Mr. Speaker, in the throne speech, not very much was mentioned about the possibilities for Canada in terms of expanding free trade. As a member from western Canada, the member understands as much or more than anyone else the major problems we will have if we do not expand free trade, particularly in natural resources so that we are not entirely dependent upon a single customer for our resources.

In mid-September I participated in the Northwest Corridor Development Corporation conference. The member was not there but I want to know specifically what is the member going to do within the current government, within his caucus and in concert with the cabinet of the Liberal Party to advance the idea of the Northwest Corridor Development Corporation in expanding free trade, developing the port of Prince Rupert, and making the northwest of North America a real trade hub to the Pacific Rim?

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his excellent question. I think increasing free trade is one of the areas in which our two parties generally agree.

At the end of my speech I talked about the benefits of increasing free trade for the less developed nations, which is outlined in the throne speech. It will allow the least developed nations to become less dependent on foreign aid. It will boost their economies and provide them with incomes with which to buy our products.

The member is probably not aware that I was director of the international trade centre program in Yukon before I had this job. I have always been a big supporter of increased trade. Reducing the tariffs at borders between countries, including in the northwest, of course, reduces costs for all of us, especially for poor people who cannot afford to pay those costs at the border. It gives poor people reasonable access to products at lower prices. I was also delighted to hear in the last budget about all the money going toward improving the borders subsequent to September 11.

Before September 11 there were a number of border irritants and problems. It has been one of the remarkable success stories over the last year. I am sure the Alliance has contributed to keeping the emphasis on our borders. However we have made progress in improving those borders. The Prime Minister and the Minister for International Cooperation announced funding of $300 million for the busiest border crossing in the world to increase our goods and services crossing the border. I am sure the member will be happy about that.

I will do anything I can to support increased trade into the northern regions. Prince Rupert is outside my jurisdiction, but in my region I am supportive of having competitive airline services. I have been using a new service to ensure competition. Businesses will now have the option of getting their products out at more reasonable rates which will enable them to compete with the rest of the world.

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have listened with interest to what the member had to say and I can tell that he has done his homework on the Speech from the Throne. I am pleased that so many of the things I have supported were represented in the throne speech.

I know the hon. member is pleased for Yukon college and other colleges and universities across the country with the emphasis being placed on access to college and university education. He specifically mentioned research. Yukon and the other territories stand to benefit particularly from research.

There is great emphasis in the throne speech on strengthening the research capacity of Canada. However there is one sentence which I think bears repeating very often:

It will strengthen government science, integrating its efforts across departments and disciplines, and focusing on the priorities of Canadians.

Given the special responsibility of the federal government in the north, does the member not think that he, I and the rest of us here should take to heart the recommendation in the Speech from the Throne about integrating government science, that we should use northern science as an example and take all the federal departments which do research in the north and get them to continue the fine work that they are doing but integrate their efforts better to the benefit of Yukoners, other northerners and of all Canadians?

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I do not see a problem with that. I and some of my colleagues lobbied hard last winter for more research moneys from the granting councils for the north and for rural universities, small universities like the member's university. Historically that has been a problem for people like myself and members from rural constituencies.

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:20 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Loubier Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, before commenting on the Speech from the Throne, I would like to extend the condolences of myself and my family to the family of Mr. Duhamel, who passed away last evening.

The throne speech is often an opportunity to inform the public on the government's choices of priorities for the coming weeks, if not months, in this House.

Yesterday, however, the Prime Minister, through the Governor General, missed the mark a bit in that he omitted several priorities that ought to have been part of the throne speech, an omission that may have been deliberate.

One of these was employment insurance. The Speech from the Throne is totally silent on this subject, despite countless promises that have been made to the public in the past by representatives of the Liberal Party of Canada and despite demonstrations by representatives of the unemployed in all parts of Quebec and Canada, thousands of whom have been pushed out of the employment insurance program by this government in the last six years.

We might have expected a Prime Minister who was presenting his final throne speech—a kind of political last will and testament after 41 years in politics—to be sensitive to the fate of people who are getting kicked while they are down, that is those who have already been hit by job loss and now find they are not eligible for benefits, as is particularly the case for seasonal workers.

The Prime Minister was also off the track in omitting to mention a fundamental and urgent problem, that is health funding. There was no need to pay for a commission to travel the length and breadth of Canada in order to find out that there was a problem in the health system. All that was needed was to turn on the TV. Every day from morning to night, there are reports on the problems from east to west, from coast to coast to coast, as the Prime Minister is so fond of saying, particularly the situation in emergency rooms and the underfunding of the health system.

It does not take an astrophysicist to know that one plus one makes two, to figure that if $30 billion is cut from transfers to the provinces since 1995, thanks to the member for LaSalle—Émard, the former Minister of Finance, and also to the Prime Minister, that there will be underfunding in the end. Two plus two equals four, four minus two equals two. It is basic arithmetic. When cuts are made on one side, there will be problems on the other side. Everyone everywhere agrees unanimously, from Quebec to British Columbia, including the maritimes. I will make a special detour.

During their last meeting, the premiers of Canada and the ministers of finance put the issue of health care underfunding back on the table. They reached a consensus. As the Romanow commission recently stated, we have been talking about the underfunding of the healthcare system thanks to the thoughtless acts of the member for LaSalle—Émard and the Prime Minister for a long time now.

The premiers and ministers of finance of Canada came together with one voice to call on the federal government, which has accumulated considerable surpluses in the last three years, to increase health care funding. There is not one word about this. There is reference to the possibility that some day certain things may be corrected, but there is no firm commitment in the Speech from the Throne when it comes to health care, when everyone was expecting that there would be some firm commitment to increase health care funding.

It is easy to pen a fine Speech from the Throne, with carefully crafted phrases and carefully chosen words, but it is quite a different ball game to head a provincial government and manage the health sector, which is in constant crisis from week to week, across Canada. There is not one word about this urgent need for additional funding.

One would also have expected that the urgent situation created by the softwood lumber dispute and the measures taken by the Americans would be echoed in the Speech from the Throne. But the government is silent on this issue, as if the softwood lumber crisis and the situation in numerous regions affected by job losses and an economic slowdown did not exist. There is a limit to the government ignoring priorities, particularly in a government program that will guide our proceedings in the months to come.

The throne speech is also silent on the WTO negotiations that will begin this fall, except for small minor references to globalization. It looks good to talk about globalization and new technologies in a document. It looks very good. But what is Canada's position regarding this round of WTO negotiations?

There are major issues at stake in these negotiations, including cultural diversity and agriculture. There are memos signed by ministers that are circulating. They are drafted, signed, then re-drafted and re-signed. These memos are saying that Canada is prepared to sacrifice the supply management system for the dairy, poultry, table eggs and hatching eggs sector. In this regard, the minister told us during oral question period that it is out of the question, that they will fight tooth and nail during the negotiations to protect this system.

I remember that, in 1988, another minister, sitting almost in the same seat, said the same thing when the agricultural industry asked that article 11 of GATT be maintained. At the time, this article protected Canadian borders by controlling import volumes for dairy, poultry and eggs. These imports were strictly regulated because, in Canada and Quebec, a strict production system has been put in place, whereby farmers produce only what the market needs. This way, imports that could destabilize this system are regulated.

We are being told the same thing today. But a memo to the Canadian negotiators says that they can sacrifice the supply management system to save international grain markets, for instance. At some point, the members opposite are going to have to wake up, just as the Progressive Conservatives did. It took at least five major demonstrations in Ottawa in the late 1980s for the government of the day to understand that the supply management system is not for sale internationally, that it is working, and that it does not cause distortions.

Right now, we have the same situation again, with a Minister for International Trade telling us that he believes firmly in it. If that is so, let us have no more memos circulating with his signature and the signatures of two other colleagues, which serve as mandates for the Canadian negotiating team acting on behalf of Canada in Geneva as part of this WTO round.

There is fiscal imbalance and much harm is caused by too much money going to Ottawa and not enough to the provinces to finance such things as health, education and social assistance. There is not a word about fiscal imbalance, as though it did not exist.

Once again, there is unanimity in Canada. The provincial ministers of finance have even called for another study to look into what fiscal receipts in Ottawa and the provinces will be like in the years to come, as well as the size of the federal surplus and the provincial shortfalls.

Once again a conclusion has been reached: a third such study. We have had the Séguin commission, the Conference Board, and now Conference Board 2. What more does the goverment need before it understands that there is fiscal imbalance and that this imbalance is having serious impact on the health and education sectors in both Quebec and Canada.

But no, it is as if there had never been such a thing as a fiscal imbalance. Never such a thing as regions, either. There is very little reference to them in the throne speech, although there are specific problems with regional and rural development. There is just one small mention of the fact that new technologies should be accessible in the regions. This is just the same wish list we have been hearing since 1993.

We would have expected an action plan, but all we got in this throne speech was bla bla bla and repetition. There are even some passages, which I can point out later, that say essentially the same thing, or just about, as in the 1993, 1997 and 1999 speeches. The same words, the same things.

The Prime Minister could have taken advantage of this unique opportunity afforded him at this point in political career to ignore the mandarins and advisers who are pushing him to take a certain direction, but not to go too far, because the potential successor, the hon. member for LaSalle—Émard, does not want to go too far in this or that direction. In short, we are dealing already with the machinery that is in gear for finding his successor. The Prime Minister could have taken a stand and said, “I want to end my political career by solving real problems, by seeing that the real priorities of the people of Quebec and of Canada are dealt with in this Speech from the Throne, and that there is follow-up action”.

Here too, when there is a Speech from the Throne, not only does the work plan have to be mapped out and the priorities defined, but the government must follow up. Since 1993, there have been surprises on this score. Often, there have been contradictions between the intentions expressed in the throne speech and subsequent action, and sometimes no action at all.

Some of the statements, including those about the disabled, which have appeared in the various throne speeches since 1993 have also surprised me. It is embarrassing to be sitting opposite a government which claims to be so concerned about the disabled. This frequently comes up. At the same time, my Bloc Quebecois colleagues and I more often than not have heard stories in our riding offices of flagrant cases of unfair treatment of the disabled. These involve cases where Revenue Canada was unbelievably harsh with disabled individuals.

Because of bureaucratic changes in definition, people who had been allowed the federal disability tax credit for the past 10 years had their eligibility questioned—despite the presence of a disability and often even one that was growing worse.

People were not examined. No doctor was sent. Revenue Canada did not send a doctor to examine people and determine whether they were still entitled to the disability tax credit. They were simply denied it. Despite examinations carried out by doctors supplied by the disabled, the government would not budge on this unbelievable ruling precipitated by Revenue Canada.

Now, after having blocked the right of the disabled to the federal disability tax credit for nine years, we are treated to a Speech from the Throne where it looks good to talk about the disabled and the concern the government has for them. It is a real disgrace.

It is the same thing for aboriginals. I asked for copies of the throne speeches for 1997, 1999 and 2002. I did not go further back, because one has to stop somewhere. I found the same wishes expressed, but no follow-up with respect to aboriginal health, to take one example.

The 1997 Speech from the Throne said that the government wanted to work with aboriginal communities to find solutions to aboriginal health problems.

In 1999, we were told that the government would “continue to address the serious health problems in aboriginal communities”. The speech said “continue to address”. This means that it was already being addressed before. However, the government wanted to “continue to address” the problems, not solve them, but “continue to address” them.

Yesterday, the speech mentioned possible measures that could be established to fight fetal alcohol syndrome in particular. It is high time the members opposite start acting and stop simply paying lip service through the Speech from the Throne because it looks good to talk about aboriginals and their health.

As regards aboriginal peoples, I found other interesting things about past throne speeches. I am referring to the throne speeches from 1997, 1999 and 2002. If we look at how this government's position has evolved, it is clear why a bill on governance was tabled before hearing the Speech from the Throne yesterday. The governance bill will be carried over.

In 1997, we were told that the government wanted to “develop relationships with aboriginal people based on the principles of partnership and transparency”. In 1999, the government said it wanted to “building stronger partnerships with aboriginal people”. The 1997 speech talked about partnerships, in 1999, the government talked about building stronger partnerships and, in 2002, it no longer mentions partnerships, but talks about adopting legislative measures to establish First Nations governance institutions.

The bill that was tabled and that will be carried over has been widely criticized by aboriginal communities as extending the paternalistic guardianship of aboriginal nations that is already found in the Indian Act. Aboriginals continue to be treated paternalistically. The language has evolved from 1997, when it referred to partnership. In 1999, reference was made to partnerships between nations and now, of paternalistic governance for aboriginals.

It is shameful that things evolved in such a direction. If the government does not come back to better provisions, it may well run into problems with aboriginal communities in the coming months.

I will take a few minutes to discuss the aboriginal issue, since it is part of my new responsibilities.

Aboriginal communities released their first nation plan in February 2002. I will quote an excerpt that will show how aboriginal nations envision the future, the notion of self-government and aboriginal rights inherent to their self-government. We will see that, given the governance bill and the infantilization of aboriginal people with the Indian Act and with reserves everywhere in Canada, there is an incredible margin between how aboriginals envision the future and what the government thinks.

This excerpt is from the first nation plan released in February 2002:

First Nations must re-draw constitutions which will lead to the establishment of the basic governmental institutions, including the designations of laws and courts and the confirmation of citizenship criteria and procedures. First Nations will then be in the position to run their own schools, maintain their own health and social services, deal with family matters, regulate many economic activities, foster and protect their language, culture and identity, regulate the use of its lands, waters and resources, levy taxes, deal with aspects of criminal law and procedure, and generally maintain peace and security within their territory.

This is the sovereignty of aboriginal nations. This is not an act on governance that infantilizes them and maintains them in a state of dependency, as the Indian Act has been doing for decades. The act keeps them on reserves which, traditionally and silently, have served to assimilate them rather than to ensure that they become full partners.

This must stop. There must be a return to the situation in 1997, indeed in 1993, one when there was talk of true partnershp, which led in fact to the Nisga'a agreement, and now to the negotiation with the Innu of Quebec. That is what nation to nation is, not paternalism, but dealing one nation with another. That is all I will say for the moment about the aboriginal nations.

As usual--and we should be used to it after 41 years, and not be surprised--in his Speech from the Throne, the Prime Minister has laid the foundation for squabbles with the Government of Quebec. They no longer even try to conceal it; the Prime Minister has become the specialist in invading areas of provincial jurisdiction. From a reading of the throne speech, this is even more flagrant than before.

Not only has he invaded education, an area exclusive to Quebec, with his millennium scholarships, but he continues to do so. He is at it again here. With his reference to a summit on innovation and learning, he is getting into education through the back door. Again, when he speaks of securities regulation, this too is excusive to Quebec and the provinces. If he wants to please Toronto, that is his political choice, but in other parts of Canada where there are other major securities commissions, there is opposition to that idea.

In conjunction with the securities commissions, we have developed harmonized regulations as well as centralized procedures, the latter being necessary in order to keep securities costs to a minimum. As well, administrative procedures have been reduced to a minimum.

The federal governmetn has no need to meddle in this sector. In coming days, my colleagues and I will have an opportunity to revisit some of the questions contained in the throne speech. We will, moreover, also have an opportunity to do so in the weeks to come, as the government tries to implement certain negative aspects of the throne speech.

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Brenda Chamberlain Liberal Guelph—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to welcome everyone back. I am glad to be here with everyone else.

The Speech From the Throne, which was given yesterday by the Governor General, but of course is the Prime Minister's thoughts and ideas on where he wants to take the government in the next period of time, was an excellent speech. It covered many topics that were of real importance to Canadians. In my opinion, the Prime Minister probably gave the best throne speech since the early Trudeau era. He was really visionary. He talked about a map for Canada.

The Guelph Mercury phoned me and wanted to know how we were going to pay for all this. That was a good question and it is a question that is not answered in the throne speech. A throne speech is something that maps out where a government sees itself going. It is a good thing to have a strategic plan, a vision, a map.

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for York West, who has been instrumental in the throne speech. She worked on a special task force to recommend to the Prime Minister that he look at funding our cities in a different way.

What we have been doing with infrastructure has been a tremendous success. The City of Guelph has benefited from it greatly, as have cities, communities and rural areas all over Canada. However, more is needed. As the member for York West said in her task force, new ways of doing business need to be looked at. My policy planner from the City of Guelph really welcomed this inclusion in the throne speech.

One of the things I have been most interested in over the last three to four years has been the health care issue. I have certainly spoken on it time after time in caucus. I have written to the Prime Minister a number of times on the issue and have spoken with the ministers of health. I really feel that Canada needs to continue to have a first rate health care system.

A national poll on health care, which, oddly enough, was released today, stated that 85% of Canadians across the country were very happy with the delivery of health care. However that is not to say that there are not problems. There is no question that communities, such as mine in Guelph, and Kitchener and in many areas around, are short of doctors. It is a serious problem.

I know this is a provincial issue. I also know that my counterpart, the member from the legislature in my area, actually led a task force on this. However no solution came out of that, and I do not think that is good enough. I think people have a right to universal health care. We say they do and I think they do. I think when one cannot get access to a general practitioner that is not fulfilling everything that all governments want to fulfill in every province across Canada.

My hope is that in this throne speech, with the desire to do more for health care, we now will look to working closer with the provinces, to get them to do things like opening up rather than capping the medical schools so tightly, and to try to find other avenues to help bring in more general practitioners, perhaps from other countries, to help service Canada.

There is a multitude of things that need to be discussed and explored to fix this bottleneck. Will it happen overnight? Probably not. Should we be trying harder? Yes, we should.

The other thing I have seen for quite some time as a problem in health care, and I have spoken on it a number of times, is the waiting lists to see a specialist if some help is required. That is serious. If people are sick or someone in the household is sick and that person is unable to get in to find out what the problem is, they become afraid. They do not know what is happening. These are two very concrete areas that are governed by the province. We have little say over this.

As a federal government we need to push the provinces harder and try to help them find solutions.

I also want to say that my experience with doctors, nurses and the staff in the hospitals has been tremendously positive. I was at St. Joseph's Hospital recently for the opening of a new unit. Many of the staff at St. Joseph's are nuns. I told them that somebody was watching over the hospital. I told them also that I believed in angels and in this hospital I had seen angels helping the sick.

The people who do this on a daily basis and give of themselves, the doctors who go out in the middle of the night, the nurses who stay after their shift to help someone or come in after someone has died or go to the funeral, are the people who really care and genuinely make a difference in society day after day, sometimes by the minute. I think they are tremendously undervalued and not thanked.

I want to thank them all for all they do on a daily basis to make our health care system what it is. We all know the health care system is nothing without the people who work in it.

In this particular initiative of the throne speech health care is paramount to me. I want to see movement. I want to see the provinces opening up avenues to help us get doctors. I want to be more responsive, even though 85% of people say that this is a good system.

I recently did a survey in Guelph on the health care system. I found that it was consistent with this 85%. The people in Guelph spoke of the system as generally very good. They said that some reorganization was needed to increase efficiency and effectiveness. They also said additional resources were needed, but not at the expense of other priorities. My constituents were concerned about user fees and paying for quicker access. My constituents believed that quality of care and timely access to services were the two most essential aspects of health care.

I found that my survey was very much in line with the national survey. I am pleased to say that the people of Guelph are right on the money as usual. They know exactly what is going on.

In the Speech from the Throne the skills and training at the University of Guelph of course are very important. On the subject of the environment the throne speech spoke of 10 new national parks.

These are all things that are a road map to make our lives as Canadians better. I ask the House this. Is this not what a throne speech is all about?

Resumption of debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Roy H. Bailey Canadian Alliance Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest as the member for Guelph--Wellington spent most of her time on Canada's number one issue which is health care. In my constituency I happen to represent the hometown of Tommy Douglas who was the founder of health care.

I would like to repeat to the House and have the House's suggestion. He said that at no time should care be given without some user fee. The second thing he said was that all families or all corporations would have a premium to pay.

We used to have that and we disbanded it. I wonder if we went back to the founder himself and took a look at what we badly need, which is money, if she would not agree with what the founder of our national system had to say?