Debates of Feb. 1st, 2002

Minister of National Defence

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member misunderstands the role of the cabinet committee which in fact does not oversee the military operations in Afghanistan. That of course is the job of the Minister of National Defence and not a role of a cabinet committee.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister claims that we are playing politics. You, Mr. Speaker, obviously do not agree, by your ruling this morning, and neither do we. We believe that the politics being played here are the politics of deceit and the deceit is on the side of the government.

Our soldiers may have taken al-Qaeda prisoners but the government seems to be holding the truth captive.

The Minister of National Defence said that he and only he knew for a full week about the circumstances. The Prime Minister says that he did not know for a week what was going on.

When did the Deputy Prime Minister know what was going on?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member is asking about when we were informed, including myself, of prisoners being taken by Canadian troops, it was in cabinet on Tuesday. However, far be it for me to say that they are playing politics. I was quoting Major-General Lewis MacKenzie who was suggesting that.

I frankly do not understand why, when a minister has stood in the House, given his explanation and has expressed his regret, that they find it so fascinating to continue rubbing his face in it.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in a hilarious rebuttal yesterday, the Deputy Prime Minister claimed that it made no difference whether the Prime Minister knew whether our troops had taken prisoners.

It is the difference between open government and secrecy. It is the difference between caring and not caring about our soldiers putting their lives at risk.

If it makes no difference when the Prime Minister knows our soldiers have taken al-Qaeda prisoners, would it make a difference if our soldiers were taken prisoner by al-Qaeda?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I am having a little trouble following this.

The point I tried to make is that our troops were in place in Afghanistan. We did not give them instructions to shoot everybody they saw. It is not surprising that they might have been engaged with the enemy and they might have taken prisoners. They were doing their job and doing it courageously. They deserve our respect and our support.

The minister has said that he wishes he had informed the Prime Minister earlier but that would not have caused anything to happen to the prisoners that did not otherwise happen.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with such an important military operation being undertaken by an elite unit of the Canadian Forces, it is highly unlikely that the Prime Minister was not fully informed that Canada had taken prisoners of war and that they had been transferred, without any trial, to the Americans.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that the Privy Council had not received any information on this prior to the Prime Minister's statement on Monday that it was a hypothetical situation and that there were no prisoners of war?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of defence has already explained all of the events and all of the information he provided to the Prime Minister and cabinet. It was a complete synopsis of the situation.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I know just how smart the Deputy Prime Minister is. He did not understand my question at all. Therefore, I will ask him again, and I will ask him to pay attention.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that the Privy Council had not received any information on this prior to the Prime Minister's statement on Monday that this was a hypothetical question and that no prisoners of war had been taken?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I have no information that would indicate that this was the case.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the lives of our troops and the welfare of their families should not be taken for granted. Canadians demand that the government provide responsible, engaged leadership at the Department of National Defence.

The minister's judgment has been called into question. His ability to discern the important from the unimportant appears to be impaired.

How long must Canadians be forced to worry that their troops are being led by someone whose judgment appears to be so poor?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the suggestion that somehow or other troops were put at greater risk than was already the case by their engagement in a very dangerous situation is ridiculous.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague has just mentioned, you obviously agree that there has been some concern here to send this issue to the committee. The government is not taking it seriously at all.

The Minister of National Defence has too much responsibility and too many lives resting in his hands for questions to linger about his judgment. Will he rise in this place today and explain to Canadians how they can continue to believe he has the judgment to determine what the Prime Minister should or should not know?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, that is a member who knows something about making judgments. I think he also knows that when the minister has stood in the House and accepted the responsibility for the decisions he has taken and has indicated that he regrets the delay in informing the Prime Minister, that really ought to be the end of it.

The role Minister of National Defence plays with troops in the field in harm's way is far more important than these political games that the opposition is playing.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the transmission of information within government requires any important information to be provided directly to the Clerk of the Privy Council, who is the Prime Minister's deputy minister.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell us at what point the Clerk of the Privy Council was informed that the Canadian armed forces had taken prisoners in Afghanistan?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I have no information other than what has been given to the House already.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, can the Deputy Prime Minister explain to us why the Clerk of the Privy Council did not inform the Prime Minister, if only in order to prepare him for last Monday's question period?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

No, Mr. Speaker, I cannot inform a member of parliament concerning conversations between the clerk and the Prime Minister. Anyway, the Prime Minister has already explained that he received the information in cabinet on Tuesday.

National Defence

[Rob Anders, Canadian Alliance, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, men and women from across this great country are leaving today to help fight the war on terrorism. I would like to send my best wishes to them, but I also want to make sure that the government will not abandon these troops and their families when they get home.

Afghanistan is not classified as a war and we are not part of a UN peacekeeping mission. I ask the veterans affairs minister, will our troops receive the benefits and rights of veteran status after risking their lives in Kandahar?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to how our troops are treated when they go to the theatre of operations, they get all the training, equipment and support they need. When they are there they continue to get it. They will receive a great amount of support in the operation and also when they return.

We give our troops the support they need before, during and after, and we will continue to do that.

[Rob Anders, Canadian Alliance, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it reminds me of the Sea Kings.

The minister has let our veterans down again and again. From the merchant navy to the gulf war syndrome, the government has been doing everything it can to sweep our proud veterans under the rug.

The families of our soldiers are watching their loved ones go off to war. Will the government stand today and commit to veteran status for these troops?

[Carmen Provenzano, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should know that the government has the highest regard for all of the persons who serve in its armed forces. The commitment that is being requested is not something that can be made in the way that has been expressed at this moment but the matter will be brought to the attention of the minister and a proper response will be given in due course.

Airline industry

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.

The compensation period for third party war risk liability for air carriers is about to expire.

What does the minister intend to do afterward to ensure that air services in Canada continue uninterrupted?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, we have always been committed to a viable and competitive domestic air industry. It is even more important after the events of September 11. That is why today I am announcing that the government will extend its indemnification for third party aviation war risk liability for essential aviation service operators in Canada. This extension will be based upon the same terms and conditions for a period of 45 days until March 21. Obviously we cannot have our airports and airlines in the country in jeopardy at this very difficult moment.

Minister of National Defence

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Mr. Speaker, in light of your ruling this morning referring the issue of, quite frankly, the credibility of the Minister of National Defence, does the Deputy Prime Minister not feel that alone should justify the Minister of National Defence stepping aside, at least until the committee has finished its research?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, I agree with Major-General MacKenzie on this one. The last thing we need right now is changing the Minister of National Defence.