House of Commons Hansard #198 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chairman.


Government Response to PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Halifax West Nova Scotia


Geoff Regan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to two petitions.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

John Williams Canadian Alliance St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 23rd report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts in chapter 7, “Canada Customs and Revenue Agency--International Tax Administration: Non-residents Subject to Canadian Income Tax”, of the December 2001 report of the Auditor General of Canada.

I also have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 24th report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts in chapter 2, “Recruitment for Canada's Future Public Service: Changing the System”; and chapter 3, “Recruitment for Canada's Future Public Service: Changing the Practices“, of the December 2001 report of the Auditor General of Canada.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109 of the House of Commons, the committee requests that the government table a comprehensive response to these two reports.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.


Ghislain Lebel Bloc Chambly, QC

Mr. Speaker, for the second day in a row, I rise to table a petition in the House. This morning again 35 people consider this government to be corrupt.

The petitioners are asking that parliament call a public inquiry to get to the bottom of the whole issue of sponsorships in Canada, and the companies involved such as Groupaction. Recent statements show that they are not totally beyond reproach.

So here are 35 more people who join previous petitioners in calling on the government to hold that public inquiry.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rick Casson Canadian Alliance Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I have three petitions to present today. Two of the petitions deal with the issue of protecting our children in Canada.

The petitioners call upon parliament to protect our children by taking all necessary steps to ensure that all materials which promote or glorify pedophilia or sadomasochistic activities involving children are outlawed.

One petition contains 50 names and the other contains 44 names.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rick Casson Canadian Alliance Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to table another petition with 125 names. It calls upon parliament to uphold the motion presented some time ago that reaffirmed that marriage must be between a male and a female.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Halifax West Nova Scotia


Geoff Regan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, the following questions will be answered today: Nos. 147 and 148.

Question No. 147Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Brian Fitzpatrick Canadian Alliance Prince Albert, SK

Regarding the current trade issues with the United States with respect to the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB): ( a ) what percentage or proportion of the legal fees and costs incurred by the CWB will the federal treasury absorb; ( b ) is there any portion not covered by the federal treasury; and ( c ) is this consistent with the federal government's position with respect to other industries and sectors such as Bombardier?

Question No. 147Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Wascana Saskatchewan


Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services

(a) Nil.

(b) Yes.

(c) The federal government's policy is that Canadian stakeholders that participate with the government in foreign trade law cases assume their own legal costs. Thus, the Canadian Wheat Board has assumed any legal costs it might have incurred related to its participation in the recently completed section 301 investigation by the United States, while the federal government assumed its own legal costs incurred during that investigation. A trading partner that wished to challenge Canada's trade policies in respect of the Canadian Wheat Board would bring its challenge against the Government of Canada as the signatory to the relevant international trade agreement.

Question No. 148Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Brian Fitzpatrick Canadian Alliance Prince Albert, SK

With regard to the provision of certain paid prescription drugs by Indian Affairs and Northern Development Canada for aboriginals in Canada: ( a ) why have certain drugs been delisted; ( b ) is there a plan to coordinate with the various stakeholders to ensure that Treaty Indians receive coverage through alternative sources such as provincial health plans; ( c ) if not, is this consistent with the government's commitment to ensuring that all Canadians have access to essential health services?

Question No. 148Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Edmonton West Alberta


Anne McLellan LiberalMinister of Health

Drugs are delisted from the non-insured health benefits, NIHB, drug benefit list when:

(a) the drug has been discontinued from the Canadian market; new products possessing clearly demonstrated therapeutic and safety advantages or improvements have been listed; new toxicity data shift the risk-benefit ratio to make the continued listing of the product inappropriate; new information demonstrates that the product does not have the anticipated therapeutic benefit; the purchase cost is disproportionate to the benefits provided; and, the drug has a high potential for misuse or abuse.

(b) The NIHB program was established to assist in addressing the poor health status of first nations and Inuit people. Where the provinces/territories have not specifically excluded first nations and Inuit from drug plans and programs, AIDS, Methadone, the program does co-ordinate the funding.

(c) The provision of drug benefits to first nations and Inuit groups, as stated in the 1979 Indian health policy, is a shared responsibility between the federal, provincial, territorial governments and first nations and Inuit. The provinces and territories, through their drug plans, ensure access for provincial residents. The NIHB program meets that responsibility for first nations and Inuit people. We work closely with the provincial and territorial drugs plans in the listing of benefits, and through activities such as the common drug review announced by the premiers in January 2002. In doing so the premiers directed their health ministers to develop common recommendations for the approval of all new drugs to be covered under federal, provincial and territorial plans by the end of August 2002.

Question No. 148Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.


Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

I ask, Mr. Speaker, that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.

Question No. 148Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

The Speaker

Is that agreed?

Question No. 148Routine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members


Points of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

John Reynolds Canadian Alliance West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order regarding a notice of a meeting of the newly created transport committee. The notice has the committee meeting this morning at 11 a.m.

As you are aware, the transport committee was established on May 27 via a motion that created two committees, the transport committee and the estimates and government operations committee.

The motion provided for the procedure and House affairs committee to prepare and report to the House, within five sitting days of the adoption of the order, lists of members to compose the new standing committees. Such a list has not been prepared or reported to the House.

As you are aware, committees meet at the call of the clerk when an organization committee is required, by the call of the chair, or when a committee so desires to meet. The meeting is not an organization meeting and if it is there is no membership. Also, 48 hours' notice is required. It cannot meet by the call of the chair because it has no chair. It cannot meet by a decision of the committee because the committee has never met.

I can only conclude from this notice that Liberal arrogance is once again at play here and its disrespect for this institution is confirmed by this notice.

In April the Library of Parliament held a briefing on the estimates. At the briefing, it was stated that there was to be a new committee on the estimates to be chaired by the member for Winnipeg South. How did the library get the impression that such a committee existed one month before the motion establishing the committee was adopted by the House? How did it conclude that the member for Winnipeg South was to be its chairman?

As usual, it is presumed that if the Liberal leadership desires something it is only a matter of formality that the House of Commons gets involved.

Once again it is this dismissive view of the role of this House that is at issue here and it is unacceptable.

The only notice I want to see is one for the organization of the transport committee but I insist on 48 hours' notice. I do not want to be told who the chairman is until the committee decides who the chairman is. That goes for the new estimates committee as well.

Points of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.


Reg Alcock Liberal Winnipeg South, MB

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member's point of order and I want to correct one thing. He made reference to the fact that it had been suggested that I would be the chair of that committee. That question was put to me also and I specifically said that was not the case. I have said it twice on television and in other forums.

I was involved in some of the thinking, as were other members, in how this committee might be created and that is all.

Points of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

The Speaker

The Chair will look into the matter raised by the hon. member for West Vancouver--Sunshine Coast. I appreciate his diligence in bringing this matter to the attention of the Chair. I will examine the situation and report back to the House if necessary in due course. This is a surprise to me and I will have to look into it.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Glengarry—Prescott—Russell Ontario


Don Boudria Liberalfor the Minister of Natural Resources

moved that Bill C-57, an act to amend the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say a few words on Bill C-57, an act to amend the Nuclear Safety and Control Act.

It gives me great pleasure to stand before the House today in support of amending subsection 46(3) of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act. This is a one clause bill. The amendment would clarify the wording in subsection 46(3) of the act.

According to the present wording of subsection 46(3), the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission can order the owner or occupant “or any other person with a right to or interest in the land” to take the prescribed measures to reduce the level of contamination.

This wording is an anomaly that must be corrected. Its consequence, unintended of course, is to require lenders to also assume responsibility for decontamination of the site, the same way as the owners and administrators.

As a result then, this subsection has discouraged the private sector interest from lending to the nuclear industry. Obviously no one ever wanted to create a condition that would deprive the industry from funding to continue to do its work.

The industry is a vital component of the Canadian economy. It includes electrical power plants, uranium mines, refineries, laboratories, universities and hospitals that use nuclear material to diagnose and to treat disease.

The proposed amendment clarifies subsection 46(3) by deleting the words I have just mentioned, which I shall repeat, “or any other person with a right to or interest in the land” and replacing them with “who has the management and control of the affected land”.

It also defines the risk for lending institutions. A lender that assumed management and control of a nuclear facility would be subject to this subsection.

No other industrial or power generation sector is encumbered by a federal provision of this nature that discourages its access to bank lending of any kind. The nuclear industry must have access to commercial credit to finance its needs like any other sector. This amendment would allow the nuclear industry to attract capital markets and equity. At the same time we have all the mechanisms in place to ensure that nuclear facilities are managed in a safe and environmentally sound manner.

Since governments encourage the private sector to get more involved in the acquisition and administration of facilities in all sectors of energy, companies operating nuclear facilities must have access to the same sources of financing as do others.

Let us not lose sight of the fact that companies need banks and other financial institutions in order to attract the capital they will need to finance present and future operations.

“Other financial institutions” can sometimes refer to union funds, pension or other funds. These are all capital that might be used for this purpose.

Therefore we must then be fair and consistent. We must ensure that all companies have an equal opportunity to conduct their business and to better position themselves in the marketplace. At the same time we must ensure that these companies are fully responsible for environmental stewardship.

This approach maintains the authority of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission to take the necessary measures for site remediation against those who have management and control. That is not removed. I say this so that all hon. members will be aware.

It will also not weaken Canada's stringent licensing and control system, which has been designed to protect Canadians' health, safety and security, as well as the environment.

All parties stand to benefit from this bill. The nuclear industry will be on an equal footing with the other industrial and energy production sectors. In parallel, the responsibility for cleaning up a site will be clearly assigned to the owner or those who assume management or control of the site.

Clearly this is a good governance bill and with that in mind I would ask all hon. members to join me in supporting the bill's immediate passing.

If later today members would agree, it would be highly appropriate, given the popularity of this measure for the industry, if we could do more than one stage today. Perhaps we could even entertain to do all stages. I am not proposing that by formal resolution right now in the House. I understand that some hon. members have not yet agreed to this proposal but perhaps upon reflection we could do that later this day. If not, then I hope the bill passes swiftly and after review in committee that we could pass the report stage and third reading, send it to the other place and hopefully have the legislation assented to before the recess, which is likely to come sometime soon.

I thank hon. members in advance for the support they will give to this measure.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Dave Chatters Canadian Alliance Athabasca, AB

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Bill C-57. I am disappointed but not surprised that the bill had to come to the House at all. It should not have been necessary. After all the Liberals have a long tradition of failing to deliver the goods when it comes to the needs of Canadians. We have seen this over and over again. The truth is Canadians deserve better.

Although there are many changes occurring within the ranks of the government and weekly cabinet shuffles, we cannot expect the Liberals to make progress too quickly. Surely it would be simply unheard of for a bill that is as badly needed as this one is to get to the House in a timely fashion, ensuring the due diligence of the legislation has sufficient time.

The government and the industry have been aware of what I will refer to as a mistake for two years now. The government has had two years to correct it. Why the government waited until now to bring it to the House and then ask the House to consider all stages in one day is beyond me. It was not necessary and it should not have happened.

As we have seen with past practices of the government, we are rushing through the legislation at the end of the session, within days or weeks of adjournment for the summer. That puts the opposition in a very difficult position as a result of the government's actions. Either we rush the bill through to ensure its passage before the summer break or we do not comply and the nuclear industry will be unable to achieve the financing it so desperately needs.

The nuclear industry has been waiting two years for a seven word amendment. We find ourselves ignoring the needs for a measured and accountable debate because either the government is embarrassed, as it should be, by this obvious misstep or the government is in a hurry to close business for the summer. Canadians deserve better.

The truly sad thing about this exercise is that in reality the amendment should never have been required. All sorts of justifications have been offered as to why the original legislation includes a problem that could make lenders liable for the clean up of a nuclear spill. The truth is that it was a foolish oversight by the bureaucrats who drafted the bill, a foolish expensive oversight that has cost the nuclear industry millions in delays and/or potential loss of domestic and international financing.

I have long advocated a simple change in this place that would have avoided this. I have referred to this over and over again for the last nine years. We in this place have a committee process that allows all party committees of the House to examine issues and, if necessary, to call the best expert witnesses from all over the world to testify. After hearing all the expert witnesses and having access to that knowledge and understanding of the issues, the government could have the committee draft the amendment or bill before it comes to this House, with the backup of that expertise and the involvement of the justice department and the bureaucracy of government as well at the committee. If it did that, we would not get into these situations.

Instead committees spend days, weeks, months and sometimes years examining issues. The endangered species legislation and human reproductive technologies are just a couple that come to mind. We spent months examining and listening to the best people who came to committee to talk to us. Then the bills went somewhere into the nameless, faceless bureaucracy where they were drafted, ignoring all that testimony and expertise that was brought to committee.

That should not be. It should not happen that way. It would not need to happen that way if the government was serious about doing the best job it could in this place on behalf of Canadians. I hope somewhere down the road a change takes place and it is done that way. However the way things work around here it will probably be long after all of us are gone. I will come back to the issue a little later in my presentation, but from what I have seen in my nine years here the expression “The more things change, the more they stay the same” is appropriate. It seems to be the only way this place operates.

The current embarrassment is the result of another humiliating embarrassment to the nuclear regulating bodies. There were serious safety problems in Ontario Hydro's nuclear reactors, problems the Canadian nuclear regulator should have known about and taken action to correct. Instead, an American consultant hired by Ontario Hydro identified the problem and has since shut down a number of Ontario Hydro's reactors.

In an effort to rectify the deficiencies in the existing regulatory regime we went through a process two years ago of restructuring the Canadian nuclear safety and control bureaucracy. Bill C-57 is an amendment to the Nuclear Safety and Control Act that would fix the problem with subsection 46(3) of the current act, a problem which should have been recognized by the drafters of the bill at the time.

Subsection 46(3) of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act prevents owners and operators of Canadian nuclear facilities from obtaining debt financing. It represents a significant barrier to any form of domestic or foreign investment in the nuclear industry in Canada. It puts the Canadian nuclear industry at a substantial competitive disadvantage internationally. This is because it provides that where the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission believes a site may be contaminated in excess of prescribed limits, the commission may conduct a public hearing. After the hearing, if the commission concludes that contamination exists it may take action to:

--order that the owner or occupant of, or any other person with a right to or interest in, the affected land or place take the prescribed measures to reduce the level of contamination.

The subsection means there is unlimited liability for the cleanup of environmental contamination for anyone with a legal right to or interest in the contaminated land or facilities. This includes mortgage lenders and other security holders. The provision is unique to the nuclear industry. It does not appear in any other federal or provincial environmental legislation.

Subsection 46(3) goes so far as to make passive investors such as mutual fund holders, pension fund holders, private shareholders, and lenders such as banks liable for the costs of cleanup. It is obvious why the nuclear industry has been having such a terrible time arranging for financing since the bringing into force of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act two years ago.

Subsection 46(3) of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act goes far beyond the common law principle of liability and the provisions of provincial and federal legislation. In all other such environmental legislation, lenders and other security holders are not exposed to such levels of liability unless they exercise their security and assume management and control of the secured assets.

I find it difficult to believe that the individuals who drafted the original legislation could not foresee this complication in the form of the current act. The problems inherent in the legislation are obvious. The argument has been made that the original wording may have been intended to address the issue of orphaned sites; that is, when companies operating facilities, usually mining, have gone bankrupt and walked away from remediation thus leaving the federal and provincial governments with the cleanup responsibilities.

It strikes me as odd. If this kind of situation is almost exclusively found in the mining industry, why would the government hamstring the nuclear industry with this provision? As we have seen, sometimes the most obvious problems escape the notice of the Liberal government until the problems become so significant it finally is forced into action.

The way to protect the public purse from companies declaring bankruptcy or disappearing and abdicating responsibility for reclamation is to require as part of the licensing process adequate bonding of the company to cover the costs of cleanup in the event the company becomes insolvent.

When we consider the ramifications of subsection 46(3) it is easy to understand why banks and potential investors have been running in the opposite direction at the thought of investing in the Canadian nuclear industry. After all, what bank or lending institution would impose that kind of liability on its shareholders?

The change to the wording of the subsection as proposed in the amendment would bring the Nuclear Safety Control Act in line with other environmental legislation. Changing the phrase “a right to or interest in” to “management and control of” would ensure liability for the cleanup of nuclear spills remained with the owners and producers of nuclear facilities rather than saddling private sector investments and their clients with the uncertainty and potential huge costs of cleanup.

The Canadian Alliance supports private sector involvement in the financing of the nuclear industry to keep government involvement and public funding of such projects to a minimum. I have long had a problem with the conflict situation in which the Canadian government is both the sales agency for Canada's nuclear technology such as the Candu reactor and the sole regulator of the nuclear industry and nuclear research in the country. The situation makes us vulnerable to compromises in the safety and regulatory body in favour of the commercial side of the industry. In the past I sponsored a private member's bill to split responsibility between different ministers and departments.

The Canadian Alliance also supports reducing barriers that impede private sector competitiveness at a time when all forms of cleaner fuel must be considered. If the nuclear industry is to be part of the energy mix of the country it is imperative that it is kept on the same playing field as other energy industries in Canada. I am not convinced nuclear energy is the answer to Canada's clean air challenges but that is a debate for another day.

I support allowing the nuclear industry to attract investors and thereby make investment decisions and plans for the future development of the industry on both the domestic and international fronts. Like many energy industries, the nuclear industry requires a huge amount of funding to remain viable. It must be able to make accurate long term plans to remain stable and attract private sector investment. Continuing uncertainty regarding the availability of financing could jeopardize not only the substantial economic spinoff benefits of such investment for Canadian nuclear manufacturers but also the jobs of thousands of Canadian workers.

Passage of the amendment is critical to the revitalization of Ontario's electrical industry. As the amendment falls in line with Canadian Alliance policy we will be supporting passage of the bill. However although we support the bill we do not support the government's hijacking technique to ensure speedy passage of it. There is no reason the amendment could not have been tabled a month ago, gone through all the appropriate stages of consideration and been passed by session's end.

The government must be embarrassed to feel the need to delay such an important amendment to one of its own acts. Perhaps it is afraid Canadians will notice yet another Liberal attempt to cover up misguided incompetence. Canadians deserve better.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.


Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Madam Speaker, Bill C-57, an act to amend the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, was introduced at first reading on Friday of last week. Today is Tuesday; this is only two working days. This is not much.

We have not been informed of all the government's intentions, but the bill might seem fairly straightforward, given its brevity.

It seems fairly straightforward but, on reflection, more information is needed to be able to consider it further. Fortunately, the Internet is available 24 hours a day so I did some research into nuclear issues yesterday evening and part of the night. I do not have a written text but I will take one step at a time.

The bill is only one page long and it consists of one short paragraph. Paragraph 46(3) of the previous legislation reads as follows:

Where, after conducting a hearing, the Commission is satisfied that there is contamination referred to in subsection (1), the Commission may, in addition to filing a notice under subsection (2), order that the owner or occupant of, or any other person with a right to or interest in, the affected land or place take the prescribed measures to reduce the level of contamination.

“With a right to or interest in” has become “who has the management and control of”. This limits the responsibility of financiers a good deal in this connection.

There is already a bill and normally it would be a straightforward matter. This puts me in mind of Cyrano de Bergerac whose reactions would run something like this:

“Oh no, young man, that is a bit brief. One could convey much to the gods just by varying one's tone of voice.

There is curious: But what does this apparently inoffensive simplicity conceal?

Timorous: There are therefore risks if financiers do not wish to commit themselves.

Cavalier: Ah, that is a private matter. We should not concern ourselves with it.

Interrogative: Can we do without nuclear energy?

Affirmative: Nuclear energy is not a greenhouse gas solution.

Provident and considerate: Invest in renewable energy; it will be to your advantage”.

In fact, the arguments of the minister and the backer are fairly simple as well, relying solely on the financial aspects. As an accountant I have often had to assess financial risk. Often such risk was limited to the money invested in or loaned to a company.

The nuclear issue goes beyond nuclear plants, and private sector ownership and investment in nuclear plants. But it seems this is the first time we are debating this provision. I am told they have been working on this for two years. That is rather long for a single section of an act, but when the initial bill was first introduced in its entirety, what was the point of clause 46(3)?

The question begs to be asked. I am told nobody made any comments on this clause, but it is being suggested that the intent was not to move toward the privatization of the nuclear industry. This is the most relevant question that should be asked.

The main user and owner of nuclear plants in Canada is the province of Ontario, with 20 plants. Ontario Power Generation, formerly Hydro Ontario, was the owner of the plants and its was experiencing significant losses. It had to invest enormous amounts just to keep the system working. There had been many disruptions and serious problems were looming. The situation remains unchanged, nuclear energy being nuclear energy. Nuclear energy is said to be the solution to the greenhouse gas emissions problem but I do not share that view.

It is clear that the minister would like the private sector to invest more in the nuclear industry. Here is a quote from his backgrounder:

With governments encouraging more private sector participation in the ownership and management of facilities in all energy sectors--

Presumably he also favoured the nuclear industry as far as the private sector goes. Obviously this is a matter for the natural resources minister. He has answered many of our questions so that we might readily accept his conclusions.

However, there are also the backers. The backers are the ones making the request and pushing for this because funds were not made available by the lending institutions. The aspects of government policy that backers take into consideration are the following. They say that the current provisions of section 46(3) of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act prevent nuclear power plant owners and operators from having access to financial markets and from obtaining financing. The big Canadian banks have refused to finance power plants and have officially told the Minister of Natural Resources that section 46(3) was the reason behind the refusal.

Once again, for those interested, the current legislation is said to have a negative impact on the ability of private enterprises to invest in nuclear power plants, to the detriment of the development of Canada's nuclear industry.

This is an important element. We are being told that it is to the detriment of the future development of Canada's nuclear industry. What of this? Do we really want to push the development of Canada's nuclear industry even more?

It is worth asking whether or not this is the best way to proceed. We know quite well that this is not the best way to proceed when it comes to greenhouse gas emissions. Obviously, I could come back to this later.

We have also been told that this is unusual, that there are no other similar provisions in other federal or provincial environmental legislation. In other statutes on the environment, the responsibility for compensating for damages caused to the environment is up to the owners, occupants or those who manage or supervise the contaminated site. Lenders and title holders are not exposed to environmental responsibility, unless they have not exercised their rights on the title and are not ensuring that the asset is being managed or monitored.

If at some time possession of the site occurs due to a loan, obviously, then there is responsibility involved. When it comes to this responsibility, the dangers involved in the nuclear industry are far greater than with other energy sources, as far as I am concerned. We know that in oil and gas, contaminants are shamelessly released into the atmosphere. We are told that nuclear energy is clean. However, we know that there is a great deal of waste and risk involved in operating and managing these facilities, and automatically, a great deal of risk in terms of contamination. We also know that when it comes to the management of waste, we recently had the nuclear waste disposal act.

As members know, we were still not in agreement with how this was done. Now, we figure there never was any debate on the advisability of continuing to develop the nuclear industry in Canada and in Quebec. In Quebec, it is not a real issue, because we have hydroelectricity and it is likely that, in the relatively close future, we will not even rely on nuclear energy anymore.

It is also said that the proposed legislative amendments will not reduce the power of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission to require owners and operators of nuclear plants to post an adequate guarantee to protect the environment, since the commission will continue to deliver licences to nuclear plants.

Of course, this is not quite the same thing. Amounts of money or guarantees can be provided. However, we can see that, increasingly, the government wants to promote nuclear development through the private sector.

The government's main argument is that the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission will still be omnipresent and have control over everything. If a place is contaminated, the commission will force its owners or operators to fix the problem.

We all remember that the former Atomic Energy Control Board was created in 1946, shortly after the Hiroshima tragedy. Back then, there were already some serious concerns which triggered a will to promote effective monitoring of atomic energy and, of course, nuclear plants.

The commission's role is to regulate nuclear industry in Canada, so that the development and use of nuclear energy do not pose an unacceptable risk to health, safety and the environment. The commission must also control imports and exports of regulated nuclear substances, equipment and technologies, and help Canada fulfill its domestic and international obligations under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

In this regard, we are told that the plutonium used to make atomic weapons comes primarily from nuclear plants operated by the private sector.

We know that, for a significant number of Canadians, the Candu reactors operated by electric utilities are the most obvious example of nuclear plants. So, when we talk about funding of nuclear facilities by financial institutions, we are not just talking about reactors, as we know, but the public believes that this is what we are primarily talking about.

For sure there are many fields of research. They are varied. There is uranium processing, naturally; there are also research reactors; nuclear research and test establishments; big irradiators; and, at the end of the spectrum, nuclear weapons of course. Everybody knows we have to strive for nuclear non-proliferation. However, fear may always remain in people's minds regarding all this.

We learned from a former head of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission that it was not up to the commission to make decisions on whether to use nuclear power in Canada. She added “However, once such a decision has been made, our role begins—and it does not end until the facility has been successfully decommissioned according the regulatory requirements”.

We know the government wants to proceed swiftly, as witnessed by the fact that first reading took place on Friday, second reading today, and that the bill will probably go through committee very quickly and third reading stage before the end of the session.

There has been no update on whether or not to go forward with nuclear energy, which would be very worthwhile, I believe. We are not just trying to prolong proceedings or interfere with financial interests. What is in place today will probably have to stay in place for a while yet. The laws of finance require that equipment be amortized, but we know that if we do amortize our equipment, we produce dangerous nuclear waste in increasingly large quantities. The government is ignoring this fact, it is not paying attention to it, but it is the Damocles sword that hangs over every one of us.

While doing my research, I looked into why private companies are and will be getting increasingly more involved in the nuclear sector. It is the result of deregulating the electricity sector. A case in point is Ontario Hydro and the decision by the provincial government to deregulate the electricity market. It has been very much in the news lately, and Ontario is not the only place where this is happening.

Deregulation of electricity markets is occurring all over the western world. However, Ontario was the first province in Canada to legislate in this area when it passed the Energy Competition Act in 1998. The purpose of this act is to restructure the electricity market and electric power utility. Ontario owns 20 nuclear power stations and is beginning to dispose of them. I think that four of them have gone to Bruce Power.

I also read the Ontario Power Generation reports. There were significant losses. For the first quarter of 2002, losses totalled $217 million. It is significant.

One has to wonder why an organization that is experiencing losses would want to dispose of some of its assets—it is a form of lease, of course—or to transfer the management or control of these assets to the private sector. First of all, there are substantial sums of money involved, as one can see in the financial statements. Ontario Power Generation is receiving substantial payments.

However, one can question the viability of the private company that will run this nuclear power station. We know all about the maintenance and management of such stations, emergency procedures and control. If there is any decontamination involved, it is even worse. In situations where businesses are struggling, how will they make a profit? For a business that is not making a profit, the risks can be huge.

I will spare you another report that I have read. It is clear that promoters are very good with the rhetoric. They were promoting Ontario Power Generation for the transfer of various facilities so they could manage these facilities themselves. In fact, I think that one or two stations are not operating right now because they do not comply with the commission's regulations.

Earlier, I asked this question: can we do without nuclear energy? This is the fundamental question we should be asking. By amending this section, we are, in effect, handing over to the private increased management of nuclear plants. Therefore, in contributing to the development of nuclear plants and getting the private sector to invest more and more, will we, at some point in time, be building nuclear plants to produce electricity to be sold tor the United States, which is increasingly starved for energy? If nuclear plants owned by the private sector in Canada are allowed to proliferate, of more and more nuclear waste will also be produced.

I asked if we could do without nuclear energy. I believe that we can. It all boils down to how we look at the issue. The only question that must be asked is this: is nuclear energy acceptable or not? If it is, then I would be in favour of it. However, like all the people who have seriously examined the issue, I believe that nuclear energy is unacceptable, principally because of the risk of major accidents.

Of course, in our modern societies, we must accept a certain degree of risk. We will not stop travelling by plane because a plane crashed. People do take risks. However, in this case, the banks are not willing to take risks. One must conclude, therefore, that there enormous risks associated with nuclear plants.

The nuclear risk is without parallel. It is completely out of proportion. After a nuclear accident, a whole area would have to be evacuated for centuries, and, for generations, children would be born with all kinds of deformities.

I spoke earlier about the other problem with the burial of radioactive waste. If it is really that safe, why bother to bury it in practically unpopulated areas? Why not closer to big cities? We would like Canadians to know enough about that to wonder about this. Is nuclear energy acceptable or not? As far as I am concerned, it is not. For the population, I think the answer would also be no.

I was also asking a little earlier if nuclear power could be a solution to greenhouse gas emissions. We often hear that nuclear energy is one of the best solutions, if not the only reliable solution to greenhouse gas emissions. The nuclear industry is working very hard to be included in the post-Kyoto negotiations. Nuclear reactors are presented as an alternative that should be taken into consideration in the development of flexibility arrangements, as for emission permit trading or the joint implementation of clean development mechanisms such as wind energy, solar energy and hydroelectricity.

This attempt is seen by these backers as a last chance to revitalize the nuclear industry, which has never reached the level of expansion announced by the pioneers and has even started to show the first signs of decline.

In 1974, the International Atomic Energy Agency was forecasting a worldwide nuclear capacity of 4,450 one thousand megawatt reactors by the end of the century. At the end of 1999, the same agency had only 433 nuclear reactors listed around the world, or only 8% of what had been forecasted.

Nuclear energy is being used in 32 only countries around the world. In 1999, it provided only 7.5% of the commercial primary energy in the world, way behind the fossil fuels, like oil, gas or natural gas, which produced 40%, 25% and 25% respectively. It represents 17% of commercially rpoduced electricity, but only 2.5% of final energy demand.

In 2000, no reactor was under construction, on order or even in the planning stages in North America or in western Europe. The last order that was not cancelled later on was made in 1973, in the United States, and in 1980, in Europe, except in France, where construction of the last plant began in 1993.

The decline is starting to be seen worldwide. The nuclear park has lost seven units, from its all time record of 440 operating reactors in 1997. And the chances of recovery are slim. Most of the 38 reactors listed by the IAEA as being under construction at the end of 1999 are located in eastern Europe, in the former U.S.S.R.

This record has not prevented nuclear proponents from developing very optimistic scenarios for the recovery of the nuclear industry, and climate change is being given a crucial role in influencing decision makers.

Thus, in early 1999, the OECD Nuclear Energy Agency developed three scenarios for the period extending from 2000 to 2050. While the first one would be the demise of nuclear energy in 2045, both of the others forecast either continued development or a decline, followed by a recovery, which would lead to the same worldwide installed capacity of 1,120 megawatts in 2050. In contradiction with short term outlook, these scenarios would imply an unprecedented building campaign.

The argument generally used by the nuclear lobby is the direct comparison of greenhouse gas emissions from a reactor with those from a coal fired power plant. The very favourable figures that are misleading. In particular, the comparison must cover all the alternatives: gas, which now represents most of the new capacity installed in Europe and which produces 1.5 to 2 times less greenhouse gas emissions than coal, but also alternative energy sources and energy efficiency.

Nuclear plants and nuclear energy are in a decline. This is obvious. Now, there are things that we, in the Bloc Quebecois, would still like to point out. Since there has to be a debate on the appropriateness of Canada's continuing to invest and to work at producing energy from nuclear sources, we say that there are major alternatives.

Looking at investments made in the past by the Canadian government in other sources of energy, we realize that direct grants from the federal government into the oil industry since 1970 amount to $66 billion, compared to $6 billion in nuclear energy and only $329 million in renewable energy.

Just imagine what $66 billion would have done for wind power and solar energy. Most likely this would not even be an issue today. We know that, together, nuclear plants in Canada generate between 16,000 and 17,000 megawatts of energy. However, wind power is also creating a great many jobs. I could get back on this later.

The wind power industry is expanding around the world. Over the last six years the average annual growth of this industry was 30%. With 40 times the installed power capacity of Canada, Germany is the biggest user of this form of energy. Europe alone owns close to 75% of all wind generators in the world.

At the present time the total wind power generated in the countries using this kind of energy is 24,471 megawatts. Canada's contribution is currently 207 megawatts.

I revert to the job creation aspect. According to the U.S. department of energy, wind power creates more jobs by invested dollar than any other technology. It creates over five times more than thermal power produced from coal and nuclear energy.

Let us take a look at the number of jobs created by the wind power industry in Europe: in 1996, for the production of 3,500 megawatts, 72,000 person years of employment were created. Could the same kind of investment in nuclear power have the same impact? I doubt it very much.

In the year 2000, for an installed production capacity of 8,000 megawatts, 512,000 person years of employment were created. According to forecasts for 2020, with 100,000 megawatts installed, 2.4 million jobs directly related to wind power would be created.

As members know, the federal program is very skimpy. The December 2001 federal budget introduced a production incentive for electricity generated from wind energy projects: 1.2 ¢ per kilowatt hour of production from projects commissioned as early as 2002; 1.1 ¢ per kilowatt hour in 2003, and so on, down to 0.8 ¢ per kilowatt hour in 2007. The federal government is far from the 2.7 cents per kilowatt-hour assistance provided in the U.S. Moreover, this program only has an overall budget of $260 million, spread over 15 years. That is $17 million a year. That is not even enough to build 15 wind turbines a year.

Instead of asking ourselves questions, trying to encourage the private sector to invest in nuclear energy, when the government has invested close to $66 billion in the oil industry and a minimum of $6 billion in nuclear energy since 1970, in other words in the past 30 or so years, imagine what could be done, especially with a large budgetary surplus. Taking Quebec as an example, the Gaspé would be one appropriate place for the development of wind energy. If Quebec were not hampered by the fiscal imbalance, it too might be able to invest in these energy sources, given the federal government's lukewarm interest in investing in wind energy.

Quebec is proposing the creation of a federal program to invest $700 million in the wind industry over five years. This is the equivalent, on a per capita basis, of federal assistance to Newfoundland for the Hibernia project. The federal government has the means, as witness its $9.8 billion surplus for the 2001-02 budgetary year.

The goal is to create wind capacity of at least 1,000 megawatts in Quebec, primarily in the Gaspé region. To accomplish this, a strong wind industry must be developed. Such a capacity would have the potential to create 15,000 jobs at the very least. That is why the program will be used to set up plants to manufacture wind turbine components.

We can certainly see the potential for private investment in the nuclear industry. Let us also put some money into renewable energies so that in the future we rely less and less on nuclear energy, and future generations never have to deal with disasters that could strike at any time.

I will repeat, and with no one in particular in mind, what I said at the beginning of my speech. Plutonium used to make atomic bombs mainly originates with civilian nuclear plants that have financial backers. This is strictly a cautionary remark. Let us try to imagine what will happen if the program is continued.

This is why it should focus on the manufacture of wind generators. The project should absolutely include local content and an aspect to encourage the development of regional industry. The region has definitely been affected from the economic point of view. In terms of energy and job creation, there are huge possibilities.

Returning now to my first and most basic ideas, I believe that if financial backers find this too risky an investment, there is no reason for society to react differently.

We believe that the hazards relating to nuclear energy require tighter regulations than for any other type of energy. We also believe that the government should focus its efforts on developing clean energy such as wind power. Where energy is concerned, the Bloc Quebecois also demands, first and foremost, ratification of Kyoto.

Why change a section that in my estimation was mainly aimed at blocking private investment in the nuclear energy field? With regard to nuclear energy, we know that the risk increases as use increases. If the government wants to enlist private enterprise in order to increase the production of nuclear energy, I do not see this as the ideal solution as far as the greenhouse effect is concerned. It is erroneous to think that the nuclear approach is the only one with positive effects on greenhouse gases. Wind energy might very well takes its place and would have far more significant economic impact than investments in nuclear energy where the risks are too great to warrant any such considerable investment.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Progressive Conservative

Gerald Keddy Progressive Conservative South Shore, NS

Madam Speaker, I listened closely to the comments of my colleague on the particular change to the act proposed by Bill C-57.

My colleagues from Athabasca, Sherbrooke, and although he did not speak yet, my colleague from Windsor--St. Clair, have spoken at length on a number of government nuclear policies and the importance of various pieces of legislation affecting the nuclear industry. We have agreed with many of the policies. I take no exception to the thoughtful comments made by my colleague from Sherbrooke although I expect that at the end of the day on this vote we will probably not be in complete agreement. That does not take away from the importance of what my colleague from Sherbrooke said.

Bill C-57, an act to amend the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, is almost a piece of housekeeping legislation. The difficulty, as has been mentioned already, with housekeeping legislation introduced by the government is that one has to go back and check the entire bill again because there is always something hidden.

In this case I do not think there is anything hidden. It is a pretty straightforward, uncomplicated change contained in a few words in subsection 46(3) of the bill.

The government House leader rose earlier and asked that we pass all stages of the bill. The Progressive Conservative Party is in agreement with that. However, it has been said, and needs to be said again, that this is not timely. The government had an opportunity to bring it forward and did not bring it forward. All of a sudden we have a bill on the table in the dying days of this sitting of the House.

Once again there is an unprecedented urgency that all stages of the bill be passed in unison. Because of the subject matter, I agree, but the point needs to be made that it is not the way legislation or changes to legislation should be brought to the House. We should be more thorough in the original legislation. Part of the problem is the absolute sloppiness of the legislation the government has been passing, and its absolute refusal to make amendments to poorly worded legislation.

Under proposed subsection 46(3) in the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, that measure can be interpreted to extend liability for nuclear site remediation, as it is worded now, to an owner, operator or any other person with a right to, or an interest in, the affected land or place.

Obviously that was a mistake in the original act that should have been picked up. Unfortunately it was not picked up and as a result of that clause banks or other financial institutions are reluctant to lend money to nuclear operators because of potential liability. The cost of the liability could exceed the initial financing to the operator and negatively affect the financial situation of the lending institution. This is unprecedented in any other section of Canadian law or legislation.

Even with the changes it is conceivable that a lending institution could still be liable if it owns the property. If for some reason the original owner forecloses then the lending institution could be held liable. That is a different situation and it is not unforeseen with the changes.

Under the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, which is the nuclear control agency, is authorized to conduct investigations to see if nuclear contamination exists onsite if and when any site has been decommissioned. Under subsection 46(3) the commission can order that measures be taken to minimize or eliminate the contamination and that those measures be carried out in a prompt manner, as it should be. However, who is liable for the cost of that clean up?

It was mentioned earlier by my colleague from Athabasca that subsection 46(3) in the original legislation was a section carried over from the mining sector. It was not really meant to affect the operation and control of nuclear reactors. It was meant to deal with mine site reclamation, acid mine drainage and possible tailing ponds contamination to any area surrounding a mine or a smelter. There are ways to deal with that. It was not meant to hinder or control financiers of the nuclear sector.

This is not about whether one supports nuclear energy or not. This is not about all of the correct things said earlier about our responsibility as legislators to seek more avenues and opportunities for green power, hydroelectricity, wind energy, solar energy and thermal energy. That is not what this is about.

This is about taking away the liability of a lending institution from the responsibility for nuclear onsite contamination. That does not exist if, for example a lending institution suddenly became a service station with onsite gas or diesel contamination which needed to be cleaned up. The lending institution is not responsible for that, nor should it be. This change that has been asked for is not a complicated change.

The amendment to the Nuclear Safety and Control Act addresses a number of issues. The possibility of liability for lending institutions for site remediation impedes nuclear facilities from accessing debt financing. Barriers to financing place nuclear operators at a competitive disadvantage compared to non-nuclear operators where barriers do not exist. The amendment also addresses nuclear facilities able to produce electricity with minimal greenhouse gas emissions.

This is not about whether we are supporters or non-supporters of nuclear energy. Nuclear energy is a fact of life. Nuclear energy reduces greenhouse gas emissions. The government is trying to get public opinion on its side to sign Kyoto. There are good reasons to look at the agreements under Kyoto and it is the government's responsibility to look at those agreements. As Canada attempts to meet its commitments under Kyoto there is no question that we will have to turn to alternative sources of energy, namely nuclear energy.

It is not the job of government to stifle the nuclear sector or to prevent it from being a supplier of clean energy. Nuclear waste is still problematic and has not been dealt with. All opposition parties in the House voted against Bill C-27, an act respecting the long-term management of nuclear fuel waste, because it was a poorly worded, poorly crafted and sloppy piece of legislation. The government has not dealt with the long term storage problems inherent in the nuclear energy sector. However, that does not mean that we should not approve a small change to the legislation which would allow nuclear operators to access debt financing.

It is not apparent to me that there is the legislative intent in the original wording of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act to extend site remediation liability to parties without management or control of operations. I certainly believe that statement. What has happened here is exactly what happened with regard to the storage of nuclear waste in Bill C-27. What happened was that a piece of legislation that was supposed to be housekeeping legislation, just a matter of tying a few loose ends together, became legislation because the government has a huge majority and a huge ego. It could not bear the fact that well-meaning amendments were needed to make that piece of legislation better and to make this piece of legislation better. The government simply voted down the amendments.

It is not about whether the amendments are good or bad, quite frankly. It is about whether or not the Liberals put their majority in place in the committee and vote down amendments because they come from an opposition party. I have made amendments to Liberal government legislation which were voted down at committee and then the government brought back to the House the exact same amendments with the exact same wording and passed them. This is not about passing good legislation. It is all about the ego of a huge majority government that has not done its job.

The next government to come to power will have to go back through all the legislation that the government has passed and improve it. It will not have to change every detail and every word of it but it will have to improve it.

The amendment to the Nuclear Safety and Control Act which we are dealing with today will change the wording of subsection 46(3) to limit liability to those with “management and control” of the affected sites. This will replace the reference to anyone “with a right to or an interest in”, which clearly puts the liability of any nuclear contamination upon the person with management or control of that site. There has been some opposition to the idea: that somehow we are helping out the big banks or the big financiers of the world. It does not exclude them from responsibility if in fact they have management or control of that site.

If there were a private nuclear institution, nuclear producers who actually found themselves in financial difficulty and went bankrupt, and the financiers loaning the money to that institution suddenly became the owners or were in management of or control of that institution, they would assume the liability, which they should. That is a different situation and that situation is covered.

However, for a regular institution loaning money, why should the government hamper and burden the nuclear sector under what is really a very strange clause that never should have been there to begin with and is there only because the government side of the House has not passed clear, consistent, well thought out legislation in this piece of legislation or in any other piece of legislation?

The PC Party will support this change to the legislation because it will provide operators of nuclear facilities with the opportunity to access debt financing from private investors. Clearly that is needed. It is important for a number of reasons. It is important to allow nuclear operators to compete equally with other electricity generators and operators and it is important to be consistent with other environmental legislation. We should not be singling out the nuclear sector as one that is somehow different from other sectors. We have a certain amount of and, I think, a very clear environmental responsibility, which should sit evenly on all sectors. The amendment clarifies the Nuclear Safety and Control Act and limits the liability of banks and other financial institutions providing funding to nuclear facilities, as I believe it should.

In closing, let me say again that this is not about nuclear energy or non-nuclear energy. This is about an amendment that should have been made in the original act, a change that should have taken place in the wording of the original act and never did. It is not about supporting or not supporting alternative sectors. I believe everyone in the House supports more clean energy, more green energy, wherever that green energy is from, including ways of improving the so-called dirty energy sectors, the oil generation, certainly even any hydrocarbon electricity generating stations and coal-fired electricity generating stations. There are many areas where we can do a better job and where we have a responsibility to do a better job. There are all kinds of tidal, wind and deep sea current energy that has yet to be harnessed or utilized in Canada. We can spend $66 billion, as has been mentioned earlier, to improve our capacity to burn oil. We spent somewhere around $296 million, which I think was the quote, on types of alternative energy. Something is seriously wrong. It is a completely lopsided agenda that the government has.

Let us take a look at the alternatives, but let us not stifle the nuclear energy sector while we are doing that. This does not take away the government's responsibility to deal with nuclear waste, which it has not done. This does not take away the responsibility of the nuclear sector to be a very good guardian of the planet, to prevent nuclear contamination and to prevent any form of radioactive contamination. However, for the purposes of the bill, for a very simple change in the wording, we support the piece of legislation. It is not timely, being brought in at the end of the session, but it is needed and the PC Party will support it.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.


Julian Reed Liberal Halton, ON

Madam Speaker, I wonder if my hon. friend realizes that the reason for introducing these amendments at this time is that for the first time in the history of Canada nuclear power will be controlled privately. Prior to this, clauses of this nature were not necessary because funding did not come from private sources.

Does my hon. friend understand that? It is not that the bill was imperfect but simply that this is the first time in our history that funding will come from private sources. These amendments would allow the lender to not be liable but would still keep liability with the generating company and, in the case of Ontario, with the government of Ontario as the backstop for liability.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Progressive Conservative

Gerald Keddy Progressive Conservative South Shore, NS

Madam Speaker, the way the member brought his comments out is interesting. He made a comment that I would tend to agree with and then he reiterated that comment and said, no, that was not correct.

I disagree with the member's statement. What the member said is that somehow or another this has been brought out because the government has decided to allow private lenders to the nuclear sector or privately owned reactors and privately owned generators.

The way the original wording under the Nuclear Safety and Control Act read under subsection 46(3) had nothing to do with preventing private ownership of nuclear reactors and private generators of nuclear electricity. That was not what it was about. It was a mistake in the legislation. It states “any other person with a right to or an interest in”.

That clause was not put in there to prevent private lenders to nuclear institutions. That was put in there because the Liberals did not know what they were doing at the time. This is just another example of poorly crafted, poorly worded legislation. It was not anything about preventing private ownership of nuclear facilities. It had nothing to do with it.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.


Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague a technical question that has to do with allowing businesses to obtain financing.

The original subsection of the act did not necessarily prevent the private sector from investing in nuclear plants. I suppose that if my colleague, who is a wealthy man, decided to buy a nuclear plan he would pay cash and would not have to seek financing.

However, someone who wishes to share a risk must know that nuclear plants represent a significant risk. Someone wishing to invest in a nuclear plant would want to reduce his risk and share it with financial institutions. When the original section was drafted and considered in committee—and we know how things are done in committee at section by section stage and how things are analyzed—we knew perfectly well that financial institutions would not invest and hence that there would be no investment by the private sector.

The changes proposed today greatly favour privatization of nuclear plants. In view of this, does my colleague still agree with increasing private sector investment, in spite of the risks involved?

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Progressive Conservative

Gerald Keddy Progressive Conservative South Shore, NS

Madam Speaker, that is a different angle and a different question. I still question whether or not it is the correct angle or interpretation. The original wording, and again I would categorically state that it was simply a mistake and poorly crafted legislation, states “any other person with a right to or an interest in”. The change to subsection 46(3) states “management and control of”. I do not believe that leaves investors out of the loop.

There is a difference between someone who has a direct investment in a company or business and is making a profit out of that investment and a financial institution that is simply a loner and has nothing to do with the management and operation and control of a particular facility. I separate the two. I think there is a clear separation and I think there is a clear delineation in the liability. It is still a point that needs to be examined more closely and is certainly a point that we have to take into consideration, but if we take a very clear reading of the legislation, at the end of the day I do not really think it is a valid point.

Nuclear Safety and Control ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.


Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC

Madam Speaker, I have another question for my colleague.

Instead of favouring private sector investment in the nuclear industry, should the government not implement various incentives to develop renewable energies like solar energy and wind power?