House of Commons Hansard #87 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cod.

Topics

AgricultureOral Question Period

April 9th, 2003 / 3 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Rick Borotsik Progressive Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Mr. Speaker, the Ontario Minister of Agriculture said recently that the federal government is letting down Ontario farmers. The province's farmers are left worried and uncertain about the future of their income stabilization program and are without adequate protection from economic hardship.

It seems the government needs an election or a byelection in order to make a policy announcement. With a byelection in Perth—Middlesex, can we now expect the agriculture minister to say something, anything, that is going to be acceptable to Ontario farmers?

AgricultureOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Prince Edward—Hastings Ontario

Liberal

Lyle Vanclief LiberalMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Mr. Speaker, I have informed all the ministers of agriculture that I now have the authority to sign the implementation agreements to put in place the agriculture policy framework and all the funding that goes with it to all the provinces. The Minister of Agriculture has the opportunity to sign that for her farmers in Ontario if she wishes to do that for them.

JusticeOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jay Hill Canadian Alliance Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice has stated that parents have no rights, only responsibilities, but he fails to understand that stripping parents of their rights also takes away the rights of children.

The Canadian Alliance, however, believes children do have the right to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents following divorce. Why is the Minister of Justice ignoring the rights of children by refusing to enshrine the principle of shared parenting in the Divorce Act?

JusticeOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Outremont Québec

Liberal

Martin Cauchon LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I have said many times following the tabling of the amendments to the Divorce Act that the notion that has been chosen by me as justice minister is the notion of parental responsibility, and of course the cornerstone of the legislation as well is the best interests of the child. When he refers to the question of the maximum contact, he should read the bill that we have tabled. He will find under section 16(2) exactly that very principle, which reproduces what was existing. That principle as well is in conformity with the international convention that we are part of.

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Monte Solberg Canadian Alliance Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, during question period the government House leader referred to a court action involving my leader and the Government of Canada. I simply want to note that my leader won that case and kicked the government's rear end very badly.

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

I am sure the House appreciates the hon. member for Medicine Hat's colourful language. I do not think it was a point of order. It sounded like a matter of debate.

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Yesterday in question period the Prime Minister informed the House, and I quote from page 5247 of the House of Commons Debates :

We are the government that proposed and passed legislation to authorize four reports a year [from the Auditor General]. Nobody can say that we do not want the Auditor General to do her work. We proved that we were more open than any other government when we gave the authority for four reports a year.

That statement was made in response to a question from the member for South Shore.

In fact, there were at least 17 requests over the last years, beginning in June 1980, to allow the Auditor General to report more frequently. The bill that authorized the Auditor General to deliver her annual report, plus up to three additional special reports in any year, was Bill C-207. It was a private member's bill introduced on February 1, 1994, by the member of Parliament for Ottawa--Vanier. It was not proposed by the government, as the Prime Minister claimed. It was proposed by the member for Ottawa--Vanier. It was not the government which gave the authority for four reports a year; it was Parliament which did so.

Not content with the few accomplishments of his government, the Prime Minister now finds it necessary to lay claim to one of the rare measures--

Points of OrderOral Question Period

3:05 p.m.

The Speaker

I do not think the hon. member really has a point of order here. It sounds like a matter of debate. I think there is no question; I personally remember that the hon. member for Ottawa--Vanier introduced the bill, and I heard the statement, but I suppose the government can claim credit for it anyway because at some point they must have voted for it to have it pass. Some did, anyway; I do not remember who voted which way, but it did pass.

I know the hon. member may have a technical argument on the matter, but I do not think it is a point of order. I know that if he disagrees with the answer that was given, he of course can raise the matter in other ways, and I invite him to do so, but I think a point of order is inappropriate.

Government Response to PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Halifax West Nova Scotia

Liberal

Geoff Regan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to eight petitions.

Export Development CanadaRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Papineau—Saint-Denis Québec

Liberal

Pierre Pettigrew LiberalMinister for International Trade

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the 2002 annual report of Export Development Canada, which is entitled “Canada’s Bridge to Global Trade and Investment”.

Interparliamentary DelegationsRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Carol Skelton Canadian Alliance Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34, I have the honour to present to the House the report from the Canadian Branch, Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, concerning the 52nd annual Commonwealth seminar, which was held in London, United Kingdom, from March 3 to 15, 2003.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the fifth report of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, which was adopted unanimously.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) and to its mandate to monitor the administration of the Official Languages Act, your committee has conducted a study on concerns expressed by the francophone community in Alberta and New Brunswick about proposals for readjusting federal electoral boundaries in these provinces, and about the concept of community of interest stemming from the Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act, and agreed on Tuesday, April 8, 2003, to report to this House.

I wish to add that the intent of the act permits a difference of 25% either way. In Alberta and New Brunswick, the commissions did not follow the intent of the act with respect to the 25% limit. This is why the committee is reporting to the House and to the commission.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:05 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 26th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, in both official languages, regarding the membership and associate membership of committees of the House.

If the House gives its consent, I intend to move concurrence in the 26th report later this day.

Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade ActRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Keith Martin Canadian Alliance Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-427, an act to amend the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act.

Mr. Speaker, as we know, Canada is a major conduit in the trafficking of endangered species. For years the government has not lived up to our obligations under the convention on international trade in endangered species, also known as CITES.

Bill C-427 would strengthen the ability of our country to allow the import and export of species in a fair and safe manner. It would also ensure that the export and import of those species would be done in a manner that is fair and safe to those animals; as we know, a vast majority of them actually die in transport. It would also ensure that the government lives up to its commitments under CITES so that we would no longer be a country that is ashamed of our international reputation with respect to the international trade in endangered species.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Canada Pension PlanRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Keith Martin Canadian Alliance Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-428, an act to amend the Canada Pension Plan (adjusted pension for persons with other income above the level at which the second percentage of income tax applies).

Mr. Speaker, one of the biggest issues affecting Canadians that the House has not dealt with is demographic impact upon our social programs.As our population ages, the demand that will be placed on social programs will make many of them unsustainable in the future.

One of those areas is the CPP. Bill C-428 would enable individuals to work after the age of 65 and collect a graded percentage of their CPP. In other words, at the age of 65 they would collect 40% of their CPP, at 66, 50%, and all the way up to 69, if they so choose to also work and earn money.

In other words, this would encourage people to stay in the workforce. It would encourage them to work and make money, but also would enable them to collect a percentage of that CPP. The benefits? Increasing our workforce and decreasing demands on our CPP, a win-win situation for all concerned.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Parliament of Canada ActRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jim Pankiw Canadian Alliance Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-429, an act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and the Canada Elections Act (fixed election dates).

Mr. Speaker, simply put, this enactment would provide for fixed election dates, so that federal elections would be held on the third Monday of June every four years.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Employment Insurance ActRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Deepak Obhrai Canadian Alliance Calgary East, AB

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-430, an act to amend the Employment Insurance Act (record of employment).

Mr. Speaker, the bill is directed toward every employer who fails to provide a record of employment to an insured person in accordance with the regulations and who then would be guilty of an offence and liable upon summary conviction to 10 years and a fine of not more than $5,000.This is to ensure that people will get their record of employment in due time so that they can claim EI.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Criminal CodeRoutine Proceedings

3:10 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Deepak Obhrai Canadian Alliance Calgary East, AB

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-431, an act to amend the Criminal Code (probation order).

Mr. Speaker, the effort of this bill is to force judges, prior to sentencing offenders, to determine whether offenders have ever been on probation and how well they have conducted themselves during the period that the order was in force. This would assist in keeping the offenders, who tend to violate probation orders, off probation and onto other formsof sentencing available to the judges.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Income Tax ActRoutine Proceedings

3:15 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Deepak Obhrai Canadian Alliance Calgary East, AB

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-432, an act to amend the Income Tax Act and the Old Age Security Act (seniors' windfall exemption).

Mr. Speaker, the bill would provide a once in a lifetimeexemption with respect to an insurance policy or an RRSP payout that is received by a senior who is receiving income from the guaranteed income supplement or the old age security program.

The payout would be subject to income tax but would not be considered an increase in the annual income of a senior and therefore would not result in a clawback of income received from the guaranteed income supplement or old age security.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, if the House gives its consent, I move that the 26th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, presented to the House earlier this day, be concurred in.

(Motion agreed to)

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, I move that the second report of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, presented on Tuesday, March 25, be concurred in.

There is a reason we ask that the report be concurred in. It was a unanimous report presented to the House by the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Actually it was a second round of such a report.

The first one that was presented six or eight months ago was rejected by the minister within minutes of presentation. However, afterward I think the minister wished he had not said some of the things that he had said at the time and has discussed the contents of that report quite openly with the members of the committee and others.

However there is one crucial element in the report with which the minister and the government, apparently, have now agreed and that is dealing with the management of the transboundary stocks on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks and in the area we call the Flemish Cap.

I can list a number of reasons for it being necessary to bring this second report to the House. First, it was recently tabled. It is perhaps one of the first times that a committee felt it necessary to come back to the House with a second report on the same topic, mainly in response to the minister's reaction to the original one.

The committee, which is made up of representatives from all parts of the country, from the far east to the far west and all points in between, unanimously thought that it was time for Canada to take control of its resources.

In the meantime, we have a crisis in the groundfishery in Atlantic Canada, particularly as it pertains to the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, but not exclusively. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island to a degree, and certainly Quebec are all affected by the downturn in the groundfishery, the lack of scientific knowledge in relation to such a fishery and the complete lack of government action in addressing the concerns. One of the main concerns is the overfishing.

The minister, within hours or days but certainly within a week or so, will be making announcements on the government's plan to address the declining stocks and the state of the fishery in Atlantic Canada.

Before that happens I think it is only right and proper that we re-emphasize to the House generally the importance of dealing with such a major issue in a responsible and positive way, and not just reaction. We have to be proactive and look ahead to the future of the fishery if there is going to be such a thing. If we follow past examples and past practices, there will not be a future for the groundfishery in Atlantic Canada.

Some of what I am saying could be true if I were speaking about the fisheries on the west coast. Many of the reasons our stocks are down are similar to the reasons the stocks are down on the west coast of Canada and in other parts.

The minister will be making an announcement based on whatever scientific information he has. The minister and others will admit that they do not have a lot of information, mainly because our scientific base within the department has been cut to the bone. At a time when scientific advice and research are so badly needed, we do not have the resources nor the personnel to do that all inclusive research.

Having said that, I certainly want to pay tribute to the few scientists who, through the horrendous burdens placed on their shoulders, continue to do their best to present logical information upon which the minister will base his decisions. However, because that scientific information is so limited, the minister must look elsewhere for some guidance.

The all party committee from Newfoundland and Labrador again presented a unanimous report. If there is one province in this country that plays politics it is Newfoundland and Labrador, and never the twain shall meet. That has been the past practice in our province.

The Liberals, the Conservatives and the NDP all came together, all seven members of Parliament, irrespective of their political stripes, the full membership of the House of Assembly in Newfoundland and Labrador, the senators, again representing both parties here in Ottawa, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, the leader of the Conservative Party and the leader of the New Democratic Party, unanimously submitted a report making suggestions as to how to deal with this crisis.

The minister met with the committee and accepted the report. To his credit, he said that he would look carefully at it and use whatever recommendations he could, hopefully all of them, to address this serious situation which we find ourselves facing in Atlantic Canada.

As we talk about this and as time drags by, the small amount of cod fish that is left in Atlantic Canada is disappearing bit by bit. If we compare today's biomass to that of 15 or 20 years ago, we are at about 1% of the total biomass.

Those of us who have studied history know that John Cabot was one of the first Europeans to come here. I will not say that he discovered Newfoundland, but it was the start of the settlement of the new world. John Cabot came here in 1497, five years after Christopher Columbus. He went back to his homeland with stories that the fish were so plentiful that baskets could be put into the sea and fish would be caught.

In my own day I have seen fish that plentiful at times. I could look into the ocean and see fish swimming all over the place. When we were catching fish in cod traps, quite often the minute we dropped the traps we could start dipping because the traps would be full. Caplin were coming ashore with fish basically chasing them. If we stood on the shore nowhere near the fishing grounds, we could see the cod fish swimming around. That is how plentiful they were.

Those fish have disappeared and there are several reasons: climatic change to some degree, but nobody believes that any more; an increase in the seal herds from under one million to seven or eight million chasing fish, not only cod fish but salmon and other species, all over the place; the imbalance of nature; the lack of scientific research; and heavy overfishing outside our 200 mile limit on our continental shelf, which Canada should be protecting.

People have said that Canada cannot on its own go out and declare custodial management. Why not? Little Iceland did. Other countries threatened Iceland's fish but it sent out its gun boats, fired a shot or two and Britain and all the other countries disappeared. They understood how important the fishery was to Iceland and they eventually worked in co-operation.

The stocks that are abundant on our continental shelf are shared by many nations. Seventeen of those nations belong to an organization called NAFO, the North Atlantic Fisheries Organization. Many of those countries have had allocations and fishing rights on the continental shelf for centuries, as long as we ourselves have had them.

Nobody is saying we will not recognize their historical rights nor will we take away quotas they get. We have been saying that with our best scientific knowledge, unless we use and adhere to the quotas set by NAFO, these stocks will disappear. They are just as concerned as we are. Why does somebody not decide to manage the stocks? Right now if NAFO sets quotas, the countries involved say that they do not agree and they set their own. It cannot work that way. There has to be a proper management regime which has to be enforced. That is the problem with NAFO.

Does Canada have to move in, take over and run it all itself? That would certainly be what we have been asking for and would be ideal. However if we had some leadership, our minister would approach the NAFO countries. Many of them are concerned and would support us because they have the same concerns in their own regions and also want to protect the stocks in our areas. They share in the harvest legitimately. Some adhere to the quotas. Others do not. However we have not seen that leadership.

We should tell NAFO, while we are waiting for it to perhaps appreciate this, that as the adjacent state we can be the best managers on the grounds that we will look after the rights of all NAFO countries the same as our own. They would be protected, quotas would be adhered to and enforced and we would deal with offending nations. What happens now if a nation offends, overfishes or catches species under moratorium? They are rapped on the knuckles, warned and sent home to their own country for retribution. Many of these boats are flying flags of convenience. Nobody even knows who owns them. Nothing happens and they come back here again the next day. That cannot work.

Leadership at the NAFO meetings could start the ball rolling. At least there should be a stronger management regime with an enforcement mechanism set up within NAFO until such time as some country, Canada being the ideal country to do so, can properly manage and enforce management regulations in the area. It is not rocket science. It is simply a word called leadership, and we have not seen it.

In two days time the House will take a two week recess. By the time we get back, the minister undoubtedly will have made his announcements. He will probably make them during the recess so he will not have to face questions in the House. On top of the all party report, there is the second report by the committee which tries to emphasize the fact that it is so important to deal with this issue.

This is not an issue that just affects a handful of fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador. It is an issue affecting all Canadians. It is a Canadian renewable resource, and we do not have a lot left. I was going to say oil is not a renewable resource, but over several generations or centuries it is. Minerals are not renewable for several millions of years. However the fishery is a renewable resource. Properly protected, we can not only preserve what we have at present, we can enhance it for the benefit, not only of a few fishermen but for all Canadians. The spinoff from a resource is tremendous and the amount of work and money that moves through the country because of that resource would astound people.

There is a book called Newfoundland at the Crossroads written by a great friend of mine, John Edward FitzGerald, a former page in the House of Assembly in Newfoundland. He is one of Newfoundland's greatest historians. He talks about Canada's bid to suck Newfoundland into Confederation. Why did Canada want us? It wanted us because of the our great resources.

Many people across the country today who do not know Newfoundland and Labrador would laugh at that and ask, “what resources does your province have”? We have half a million people and we have more raw resources than any province in Canada. We should all be driving Cadillacs and spending our winters down south but as it is, we do not benefit from our own resources, and the fishery is one of them. It has been badly mismanaged since we came into Confederation.

However, even though there is only 1% of the biomass left, the biomass can be revived with proper measures. Just a few days ago we all read stories about thousands of dead cod fish coming ashore in Smith Sound, Trinity Bay, Newfoundland and Labrador. They were huge cod fish, just like the old ones we used to hear stories about, which we have not seen in a long time. Why would dead cod fish be washed ashore? The scientists say that perhaps it is because they came in contact with super cold water.

There is no doubt about it. The shallow water in Newfoundland and Labrador at this time of the year, because of the ice surrounding the province, is super cold. However fish are sensitive to changes in water temperature. That is why they migrate. If that is what killed them, and that analysis is probably legitimate, they did not swim in there intentionally. They were driven there by the thousands of seals that were chasing them. It is almost like watching sheep dogs rounding up sheep out in the pasture. The seals work, co-operate and herd fish into little nooks and crannies and then they can go in, scoop out the underbellies and kill the fish.

We have a number of major issues and the seal herd is certainly one. The other is the overfishing. Both these can be handled but again the word leadership has to come to play. Our minister should go to NAFO, stand up and say that we as Canadians want to protect this resource, not for us alone but for all NAFO members because they have a share in it. Norway, Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Greenland openly have discussed the same concerns as we have ourselves.

Some of them, and maybe all of them, would be silently onside in protecting that resource if there were a fair and proper mechanism. Nobody has openly discussed that prospect. We have a few fish and each year there are fewer and fewer. The only thing they do is decide how much we will get and how much they will get. The greedy ones say that they will take more. Then they go out and do whatever they want to do, load and go with whatever species they can get at.

It would not happen anywhere else in the world. It probably would not happen anywhere else in Canada. However it is happening off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. We are sick and tired of it. It is about time we saw some leadership. If the government does not provide it, then we have no other opportunity except that the people themselves will start doing whatever has to be done to ensure we preserve our resource. That is number one.

We would involve those who are part of the fishery. We would not tell them to forget it. We not tell them that we would close the fishery and that they could go to Alberta to work in the meat packing plant. I like Alberta. They are great friends of ours, but our fishermen would rather fish than work in the meat packing plant. I am sure those who work in the meat industry or the oil industry in Alberta do not necessarily want to come and fish off Newfoundland and Labrador. However when their oil dries up, if we look after our fishery, they might be able to do just that.

We have a chance to do something about this. It is called leadership. There is a standing committee, and I give all the credit in the world to my colleagues, like my colleague from Grand Bank. We have members from the Alliance Party, the NDP, the Bloc and other members of the Liberal Party, all of whom sit on the Standing Committee of Fisheries and Oceans. They have a variety of backgrounds, from farmers to Ontario lawyers, as our chair is, all who have come to understand what it means to preserve our resources.

Let me stress again, we are down to 1% of our biomass of a few years ago. We have a chance. If we lose that, there is no hope. We have a small window and the only chance is to address all the factors: the seal herds, overfishing, bycatch, gear types, and I could go on and on.

Those involved in the fishery are willing to play their parts. All we need is the leadership, and that is why we are asking the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and government generally, please, before it is too late, let us go to work.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Roy H. Bailey Canadian Alliance Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for a great speech. There is a similarity between from where I come and about what the hon. gentleman talks. He talks about two main issues which have ruined the livelihood of Newfoundland and Labrador. He is right. All it takes is leadership. Leadership could chase those two issues that have ruined his industry if we would only take it.

Canada is a huge nation. The hon. mentioned that because of no leadership, if Newfoundland and Labrador is to be kept poor, that will affect everybody. I would concur with the hon. gentleman. It was a great speech. The scarcity of the cod can be corrected. We can bring it back but we will not bring it back by sitting on our hands. It will take action by the government, and it is time that Canada said “Let us restore an industry before it reaches a point where it can never be restored”.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:35 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, let me thank the hon. member for his interjection. It was about a little over a year ago that I first introduced this resolution to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, asking it to deal with the overfishing issue. At the time, originally I just gave notice and talked to a number of our members who began to understand something about what it involved. However as they began to understand it, they began to support it.

Last March the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans came to Newfoundland and Labrador. We had meetings in St. John's and we had presentations from every agency involved in the fishery. We also had presentations from the mayors of a couple of communities, Trepassey and Burgeo, that had been affected by the downturn. They told stories of the people who lived in their towns heading off to the mainland looking for work.

My hon. colleague from Grand Bank represents the area of Burin--St. George's. His area was affected the same way. Our young people are heading off somewhere else to look for work. Fish plants have closed down. People have been left with no resource, no work and no income. We have lost 10% of our population in 10 years.

The members heard these stories and realized that we were talking about a major renewable resource that brought millions and millions of dollars into the province and consequently into the country, and we were doing nothing about preserving it. We have had solid support from every person on this side of the House and a lot of people on the other side. What we have not had is leadership from the very people who can really do something about it. I guess we have to keep pushing the issue until they also learn and appreciate, as the rest of us have done.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

James Lunney Canadian Alliance Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, again I would like to applaud the member for bringing this up. It is such an important issue for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I was on the fisheries committee that travelled to Newfoundland and Labrador and we heard very compelling testimony. It was in the town of Trepassey where they dismantled the plant and moved it off to Japan.

Of course the government's answer in response to the depleted stocks was to throw a bag of money at the people there to try to reinvent why they lived in their locations. However many of these communities are isolated. They exist because of the one time abundance of those Grand Banks. Now of course, there they are with these glossy brochures trying to attract business to their communities which are removed from market. They exist because of the abundance of the sea, and with proper management it is possible, we believe, to bring back the stocks.

There are two primary issues, which the member has addressed very adequately, where we need leadership. One is on custodial management of our Grand Banks. The Grand Banks, with the nose and tail, where there is overfishing by foreign fleets in the area just beyond our 200 mile limit, is part of our continental shelf. Of course the fish do not stop at the 200 mile limit. When an abundance of fish are extracted from there, the ones from inside simply move outside, where the abundance of food is, and they get captured by the foreign fleets.

We need to take responsibility, and also with the seals. Does the member have a comment on that? We certainly concur with him on the motion.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

3:40 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from the Alliance. He is a typical example of a member in whose district we went last year as part of the committee and assisted him in some of his issues.

Perhaps a year ago he knew little about Newfoundland and Labrador, certainly nothing about the nose and tail of the Grand Banks. He now understands the resource. We have heard him clearly debate and talk about a Canadian resource that needs to be preserved for the people of Canada. That is what this is about. It might be ours today, but it may be someone else's tomorrow.

It is about the fish stocks in the Great Lakes and the concerns about invasive species. It is about the hake fishery on the west coast and the salmon in the Fraser. They are renewable resources that we are losing because of cutbacks, lack of leadership, lack of science, and lack of caring at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. It is not too late to stop. While we have two fish left there is a chance if we believe the old story of the ark. All the animals went in pairs. They say worms went in apples.

We can rebuild the resource and we see other Canadians starting to understand. We are all in this together. A rich Newfoundland and Labrador is a contributor, not one that is perceived as having its hands out. Some day we will have a good debate on what we are contributing so people will really understand, but it is to everyone's benefit to create wealth in different parts of the country. We dig out our minerals and they are gone, we pump our oil out and it is gone, but the fishery can be renewed over and over and enhanced. What a tremendous food resource for the world.

That is why we are pushing it. The member mentioned the seal herds. When we had a biomass 100 times greater than we have now, we had fewer than a billion seals. Now we have 1% of that total amount and we have perhaps a 700% or 800% increase in the seal herds. I know there are nature lovers out there and everything else, but surely everyone must respect the fact that there must be a balance in nature. There is an imbalance right now. These things must be controlled.

Leadership can be done simply. It takes a bit of leadership and intestinal fortitude and we are there.