Debates of May 2nd, 2005

Sponsorship Program

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1999, at the request of Intergovernmental Affairs, a $400,000 campaign was launched to promote the referendum clarity bill. Communication Coffin landed the contract, but BCP, a firm close to the Liberal Party, did most of the work.

Since the shady moves surrounding “Projet lumière” illustrate it once again, will the Prime Minister acknowledge that the Liberals never hesitated to use public funds and break the rules when it came to selling federalism in Quebec and to benefiting their friends?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the Bloc knows full well that everything was done properly. We are not here to make comments on the testimony. We will wait for Justice Gomery's ruling.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, using public funds for partisan purposes and breaking rules are typical Liberal stunts. Their actions during the referendum campaigns in 1995 and 1980, the sponsorship scandal and the shenanigans surrounding Bill C-20 are perfect illustrations of this.

Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that to sell Bill C-20 to Quebeckers, the Liberals broke the rules for granting contracts in order to do business with BCP, the firm that had handled their advertising in previous elections?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, again, it is very important to allow Justice Gomery to do his work. That is why there is no point commenting on the daily testimony. We must allow the judge to make his report. Only then will we know the facts.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of the Environment took great care not to disclose to the Gomery inquiry that the national unity fund had been used to promote the clarity bill, Bill C-20.

How was the minister able to conceal that from the Gomery inquiry when he was required by his oath to disclose everything he knew about this matter?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we will not make the same error as the opposition and comment daily on the testimony at the Gomery inquiry. We have too much respect for the commission.

If, however, my hon. colleague were to ask whether I had a hand in any contract awarded to a communications firm, my answer would be no. Have I always disclosed everything I knew about this matter? My answer would be yes.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yet the Prime Minister said, when the Gomery inquiry was created, that everyone who knew anything ought to speak out.

How could the Minister of the Environment ignore that appeal by the Prime Minister, not let it worry him, and act as if he had suddenly forgotten that he had made use of the unity fund to hire BCP to promote his clarity bill? How could he conceal that from Justice Gomery when he was a witness under oath?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I have never concealed anything. The Bloc leader has gone to the media with the story that I had fiddled with money from the fund. That is the sort of insinuation that, though meaningless, suggests the worst. It could serve as the very definition of insidious muckraking. He ought to be ashamed. He should behave like a self-respecting member of Parliament.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister and his ministers should be careful with their rhetoric because they are in no position to be an honest voice for federalism at this moment in time.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order. The hon. member for Toronto--Danforth has the floor now to ask a question. The House will want to be able to hear his question.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, last week we tried to get something done for people in the environment, but it all depends on the Prime Minister having respect for Parliament. On four separate occasions Parliament has put forward strong positions on key issues. For example, a motion was passed to set up a special fund for the dirty money.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Will he respect Parliament and agree now to put the dirty money in the trust fund?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been clear and in fact the party has been clear. If there were funds that were received inappropriately, those funds would be returned to Canadian taxpayers. However, that cannot be done until we have all the facts and Justice Gomery has completed his work.

I know Canadians want to have the truth. The Liberal Party wants to have the truth to do the right thing on behalf of Canadians and on behalf of Canadian taxpayers.

Democratic Reform

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is disappointing because the Prime Minister has promised so much about democracy and we have seen so little delivered. Let me offer another example and ask a question.

When it comes to meaningful voting reform, despite the best efforts of the New Democratic Party, this issue has not moved forward at all.

Can the Prime Minister explain why after 18 months in office he has done virtually nothing to advance the cause of real democratic reform through voting reform?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, there have been a number of changes in this very House that have proven to be worthwhile pursuing. Beyond that, there is an entire process that the committee is engaged in, and the government is engaged in as well, a diagnostic about democratic reform.

Tomorrow night we are having a take note debate in this very House. The member and his caucus will have ample opportunity to participate in that debate, so that Canadians can hear firsthand what these members representing them have to say about democratic reform.

Sponsorship Program

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien is going to court to shut down Justice Gomery's commission in the same way the Liberals shut down the APEC and Somalia inquiries.

The current Prime Minister claims that his government will defend Gomery, but it turns out Gomery wants his own lawyers because, as Gomery's lawyer said, he cannot trust government lawyers to defend the commission.

Why can Justice Gomery not trust the government's lawyers to defend his commission?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has consistently supported the work of Justice Gomery. Our government has consistently supported the work of Justice Gomery. The only people I know who want Justice Gomery to fail and who want Canadians to make a rash decision based on unproven allegations and not on the truth of the Gomery report are the Conservative Party and the separatists who want this Parliament to fail because the Bloc wants Canada to fail.

I do not know why the Conservatives are supporting the separatists in their desire to make this Parliament fail when Canadians want to--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order. The hon. member for Provencher.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, only in public does the Prime Minister say he wants Justice Gomery to continue the work that Mr. Chrétien is trying to shut down. Behind closed doors, the Prime Minister led a standing ovation in applauding Mr. Chrétien for his arrogant behaviour in front of the Gomery commission.

How can Canadians trust the government if Justice Gomery cannot trust it to defend his commission?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, our Prime Minister appointed Justice Gomery. Our Prime Minister ensured that Justice Gomery had access to the resources he needed to succeed, in fact to provide over 12 million pages of documents to Justice Gomery, including cabinet documents dating back to 1994. We want the truth. We want Canadians to have the truth. That is why we support Justice Gomery.

It is the Conservative Party that is afraid of the truth. It is the Conservative Party that would rather fight the election based on unproven allegations than respecting Canadians and ensuring they have the truth to make a good rational decision.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the government repeatedly promises to be open and transparent but behind closed doors it is a different ugly reality.

The Prime Minister recently admitted that fellow Liberals pushed to hide the sponsorship scandal. He confessed that he had received “tons” of advice to “put it under the rug”. Who are the tons of people in the PMO and in the cabinet counselling deceit and cover-up?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to stand by a Prime Minister who is willing to do the right thing and put country before party, to put principle before partisan strategy and to put Canadians first in his support for Justice Gomery so Canadians have the truth.

We are not as interested in partisan strategy over here. We are interested in getting to the truth for Canadians because Canadians deserve the truth.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the inquiry came about because it was far too late for the Liberals to bury their misdeeds. The Auditor General had already sounded the alarm. The Prime Minister did the next best thing. He tied Gomery's hands.

The terms of reference prohibit Gomery from “expressing any conclusion or recommendation regarding the civil or criminal liability of any person or organization”.

Why is the government hiding from Canadians the fact that Gomery is not allowed to say who the guilty parties are, as the Prime Minister promises?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is there are criminal charges against some individuals, including Mr. Brault, their much flaunted friend over there. The fact is we have launched civil actions against 19 firms and agencies to recover $41 million from those individuals.

Beyond that, there is a parallel process to the Gomery commission that is aimed at accomplishing two things: first, providing Canadians with an analysis of what happened in the fact finding part of his work; and, second, prescriptives to ensure it does not happen again.

His mandate is clear and the mandate of all parliamentarians in the House is clear: to make this Parliament work.