Debates of May 6th, 2005

Sponsorship Program

[The Speaker]

We will move on to the next question.

The hon. member for Rivière-du-Nord.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after the testimony given by Michel Béliveau, the former president of the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party of Canada, we learn that the meter is still ticking and that the amount of dirty, illegal Liberal money used for election purposes has now reached over $2 million.

Given the mounting revelations, what is the government waiting for to create this trust fund, which the House voted overwhelmingly in favour of on April 19?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the party has been clear: if it has received inappropriate funds, it will reimburse taxpayers. However, this cannot be done until all the facts are known. Therefore, we must wait for Justice Gomery's report.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with that kind of attitude, the Liberals will lose their confidence vote on May 18.

Michel Béliveau has said that he obtained, at the very least, $300,000 in dirty money from Jacques Corriveau and another $121,000 from Alain Renaud. This money was used for partisan purposes in complete violation of the Canada Elections Act. And the meter is still ticking.

Does the government intend to respect the will of the House and immediately create a trust fund for the dirty sponsorship funds?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, we have been absolutely clear that if any money has flowed to the Liberal Party inappropriately, that money will be paid back in full.

In addition to that, we have been absolutely clear that if anyone is found to have done anything wrong in this situation, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and take full responsibility for their wrongdoing. Let me be absolutely clear about where we stand on that issue.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Michel Béliveau added that Jacques Corriveau was not the only source of secret funding from the Liberal Party of Canada. In 1997, Alain Renaud also transferred $50,000 through Groupaction to the Liberal Party. As we can see, the meter is still ticking.

Does the government not think that it should pay particular attention to these admissions from its own ranks and that it is time to put all this dirty, illegal Liberal money into a trust fund?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, there have also been allegations that the Parti Québécois received this kind of inappropriate funding. The fact is that at the Gomery inquiry there have been allegations against the Conservative Party, there have been allegations against the Parti Québécois and the separatist parties, and yes, there have been allegations against the Liberal Party.

But it is only this Liberal Prime Minister who is getting to the bottom of this issue, because the separatists and the Conservatives are denying any responsibility for this kind of thing within their own parties. We are getting to the bottom of this issue because we are standing with Canadians, who want the truth.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with such an attitude, it is clear the Liberals will lose the confidence vote on May 18.

That is not all. We learn from Michel Béliveau's testimony that another $63,500 was received in 1998 from Alain Renaud's private company, in addition to $8,000 received in cash.

Does the government not think it is high time to deposit all this dirty money into a trust fund?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the Prime Minister has been clear, the government has been clear and the party has been clear that any funds received inappropriately will be returned to the Canadian taxpayers.

Let us remember that there is only one leader in this House who is standing up for justice, who is willing to put country before party, who is willing to put principle before partisan strategy and do the right thing and get to the truth, and that is our Prime Minister, who stands by Justice Gomery and with Canadians.

Democratic Reform

[Ed Broadbent, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Yesterday in Britain, 63% of the citizens voted against the Labour government, yet today, with only 3% more votes than the Conservative Party, Mr. Blair remains in government with a substantial majority.

Given that our electoral system is the same as the British, with the same pre-democratic roots and unfair results, does the Deputy Prime Minister not agree that we should have serious democratic electoral reform now?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the House of Commons, as in the Speech from the Throne, last fall unanimously asked that a committee of Parliament look at the way that Canadians can be engaged in the process of democratic reform, including electoral reform. That committee is preparing its report. The government will certainly act on the report once it has been received, as per the unanimous wish of this House.

[Ed Broadbent, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister knows full well that his members on the committee have been dragging their feet throughout this session of Parliament.

Since this reform process could be launched and completed by the end of this calendar year, will he take steps to discuss with his members on that committee the ensuring of a speeding up of the process so that here in Canada we will have electoral reform by the end of this calendar year?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the member and I have had discussions on this. He knows that the government is serious in trying to deal with democratic reform, including electoral reform.

The government does not dictate to a committee what it will do, especially in this instance when it is the opposition that has the majority on that committee. Once the report is given to the government, we will follow the rules and take it under advisement and act according to the rules of this House.

Sponsorship Program

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, top Liberal Party officials testified at the Gomery inquiry. Canadians have heard that $8,000 in dirty money went to pay off campaign workers in the riding of the former minister of heritage, now the Prime Minister's principal secretary, Hélène Scherrer. With the scandal now embedded right in the Prime Minister's Office, when was the Prime Minister informed of this?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I want to be absolutely clear about this so nobody misunderstands the situation here. Madam Scherrer had absolutely no knowledge of the allegation that is being made in relation to her riding.

We have made it plain that if in fact funds were inappropriately used, given to the Liberal Party in any form, those funds will be returned.

I want to underscore the fact that Madam Scherrer had absolutely no knowledge of any transactions such as alleged.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, these are Liberal admissions, not allegations. This is sworn testimony. Liberal organizer Michel Béliveau has now confirmed previous testimony of paper bags stuffed with money--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake has the floor to ask a question. I am sure he appreciates the assistance, but perhaps we could hear the question.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Liberal organizer Michel Béliveau has now confirmed previous testimony of paper bags stuffed with money. Mr. Béliveau confirmed that $8,000 in dirty money was used to pay election expenses for defeated heritage minister Hélène Scherrer, who is now the Prime Minister's principal secretary in the PMO.

When will the Prime Minister order Ms. Scherrer to repay these funds to taxpayers, as other Liberals have volunteered to do?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, we already know what the Conservatives say about some testimony. In fact, this is what they said about Chuck Guité's testimony a few months ago. The member for Calgary Southeast said that the only person who believes Chuck Guité is Chuck Guité and his testimony is “not credible”.

The fact is that they will use selectively specific testimony to support their narrow partisan arguments, but today's Globe and Mail said in its editorial:

There has been no persuasive testimony that Mr. Martin was involved in any of the alleged chicanery...Mr. Tremblay is in no position to confirm or deny; he died last fall. And it is difficult to imagine a more--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary West.

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, talk about lacking credibility. The code of silence around dirty sponsorship moneys for Liberal candidates in Quebec is broken. With the slug's trail leading right to the PMO, how much does the Prime Minister know and how many members across the way have been told to shut up?

Yesterday the director of the party's Quebec wing testified he received $300,000 in brown envelopes from a former Liberal organizer. He himself bagged $100,000 in an envelope stuffed with hundreds and twenties at the party's Montreal headquarters.

When will the ridings, which ended up receiving that dirty money--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member were to familiarize himself with the entire testimony, he would also see that Mr. Béliveau said that he “never, never told other Liberal officials”. He said that “he acted alone”.

It is clear that those members will take one individual's testimony, even when it is contradicted by other testimony, and use it for their own narrow partisan purposes. As Canadians see this kind of activity on the floor of the House, it makes them even more secure in their knowledge that Justice Gomery is doing the right thing and that is why they support his work.

[Jeremy Harrison, Conservative, Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday we learned from Liberal organizer Michel Béliveau that he received $300,000 from Jacques Corriveau to fund Liberal campaigns in the 1997 election. These politicos were disgracefully trading taxpayers' cash stuffed in envelopes for Liberal Party gain. At least five of the Prime Minister's government members were elected in ridings that may have received the dirty money, $60,000 per riding.

When will the Prime Minister pay back to the Canadian taxpayers the money his party has stolen?