House of Commons Hansard #11 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-2.

Topics

Holidays ActPoints of OrderOral Questions

3:15 p.m.

NDP

Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated during statements by members, I rise on a point of order to request unanimous consent for the following motion: “That this House waive notice of the private member's bill which redefines Remembrance Day as a legal holiday in the Holidays Act be deemed to have been read a second time and referred to a committee of the whole, deemed considered in committee of the whole, deemed reported without amendment, deemed concurred in at the report stage and deemed read a third time and passed”.

Holidays ActPoints of OrderOral Questions

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to propose the motion?

Holidays ActPoints of OrderOral Questions

3:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Question PeriodPoints of OrderOral Questions

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Mr. Speaker, during question period, I believe the hon. member for Perth--Wellington misled the House and Canadians in suggesting that I had made an erroneous statement about Encounters with Canada when I said that funding had not been restored when it had been restored.

I issued a press release on Friday calling on the government to restore funding for Encounters with Canada. At that time the organization had not had any confirmation from the government about restored funding. The situation was so murky that the Minister of Canadian Heritage, who threw the organization into a turmoil of uncertainty, saw fit to hold a press conference on Monday afternoon to clarify the matter.

I would expect and hope that the hon. member for Perth--Wellington would apologize for his misstatement.

Question PeriodPoints of OrderOral Questions

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

I am sure the hon. member for Perth—Wellington will take the matter under advisement when he reads the submissions the hon. member has made in his point of order and, if necessary, he will get back to the House.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

April 27th, 2006 / 3:20 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today about how we can make the government more accountable. After all, we all want a clean, transparent and democratic government, and we want a government that works better for Canadians.

I want to speak specifically to access to information and the accountability of government agencies. We must remember that these government agencies are funded by the taxpayers of Canada. In my riding of Trinity—Spadina stands an airport that operates under the authority of the Toronto Port Authority. The Toronto Port Authority has lost taxpayer money every year since its inception. It was created by the former Liberal government. It ignores the wishes of the citizens of Toronto. Every mayor since its inception said no to a port authority. This port authority continues to refuse to pay property taxes to the city. It is a completely disastrous agency. What we have been asking is that the government get to the bottom of how this agency is operated.

In April 2004, all of a sudden the former government made a secret deal with the port authority and handed $35 million over to it, which was supposed to be used to settle a lawsuit on a bridge that was cancelled. The bridge cost $22 million to build but somehow the lawsuit was for $35 million. It was not even a lawsuit. We need to know and the people need to know who received the money. Why is it a secret?

Independent folks in the local area have been asking for the information over and over again and have been completely stonewalled by the former Liberal government. People are saying that they want to know why taxpayer money has gone into a secret deal where no one knows what happened. I believe the public has a right to know.

Quarterly financial reports are needed but none are presently available. Community organizations cannot find out how many planes are flying above their heads. They do not know what kind of pollution is being caused nor do they know the flight paths. They have been asking government over and over again for information but they have not been able to get any. One year some documents are available but another year they are not.

If the government has nothing to hide there must be very clear language in the accountability bill to say that the public has a right to access information that is due to them, information that is not available right now. Only the NDP is committed to accomplishing these objectives. Only the NDP wants real access to information. People need to know about their public agencies. They need to know how the government is spending their taxpayer money.

Prior to the election last year, Mr. Broadbent and the NDP demanded change in ethics and accountability. The NDP plan recognized that access to information is essential for the public to investigate what the government is doing and is a vital part of our democracy.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her pristine analysis on what is generally missing and lacking in accountability with government. Specifically, one of the areas that I have concerns with is what happens now with a bill that does not have the accountability that we ask for in terms of things like democratic accountability. I think that is clearly lacking.

We asked for fixed election dates. We hear that there might be some movement there. We asked for making sure that when we are looking at accountability to Parliament that voters get the member of Parliament for whom they voted and they do not end up a couple of days later after the election with a member from a different party. It would be interesting to see how Canadians feel about that. I know that in my own office people have been contacting me about that issue.

The other issue is lobbying. There are some measures that are moving forward in the accountability act on lobbying, but one that is missing is what happens when somebody who had been lobbying government turns around and then is a recipient of government contracts. Will this be something that the government is going to act on and change in the bill because there seems to be a void?

Finally, the whole point of probity of the government into be it port authorities or crown corporations is the provision in the bill to allow the Auditor General to have scope into those areas. It would be important for us to know what resources are going to be afforded and particularly how much money is going to be afforded to the Auditor General to allow her or him to do that job.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my colleague. Access to information is critical and in this act it is very limited. It is expanded to include several officers of Parliament and seven crown corporations, namely, Canada Post, VIA Rail, CBC, Atomic Energy Control Board, Export Development Canada, NAC and the Public Sector Pension Investment Board.

There are three foundations: the Canada Foundation for Innovation, Canada Foundation for Sustainable Development Technologies and the scholarship fund. What about the rest of the agencies? What about the agency I just talked about, the Toronto Port Authority? It deals with our airport which deals with flights coming from the U.S. for example and it is critically important that we know how it is organized.

It is unfortunate that the meaningful reform that we are looking for in the bill has been sent to a committee as a draft bill and a discussion paper. That is not meaningful reform because if it goes to the committee as a discussion paper, it will never come back and that is not my definition of a clean and accountable government. That is not what democracy is all about because the public has the right to know.

In terms of lobbyists and the Auditor General, all of those things need to be fine tuned. There is a lot that we need to work on in the bill. Hopefully, in the standing committee, we can begin to make some improvement to the bill because the public deserves a clean government.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I know the member is experienced at another level of government and I thought I would perhaps get her opinion on one aspect of the bill which would reward, up to $1,000, those who would come forward with allegations of whistleblowing. There is some concern that this is somehow an indication of lack of confidence in the public service.

I would suspect that at other levels of government there is a duty to perform and that the people doing the job probably do not need a monetary inducement to do a good job. This $1,000 trinket may in fact have negative consequences in terms of good relations with the public service. I would like to have her comments.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, whistleblowers should have a right to seek remedy through the court system, even as a last resort. In this legislation they would not. That is a problem.

In the case of a retaliation, a whistleblower would be referred to a tribunal headed by justices that are appointed by the Prime Minister. That is one of our concerns. Another area of concern is the lack of interim measures such as allowing public sector workers easier access to a neutral third party and interim statement when they come forward to make disclosures. All of those areas need to be addressed.

With regard to the $1,000 cash reward, if people want to speak the truth, they are going to speak the truth anyway whether there is $1,000 or not. I do not really know what it would do.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to talk about some of the aspects of our new government's accountability bill. Before I begin, I want to say how proud I am that Canadians chose our government to turn over a new leaf and make government work for the people instead of the other way around.

Hard-working people in my riding of Leeds--Grenville have been concerned for many years about the direction being taken by the federal government. They saw that the country needed change and they voted for that change in 2004. In January of this year they welcomed the news that the rest of Canada, in many other ridings, recognized the same problems that they had recognized for many years.

The federal accountability bill is about fixing a system that the people of Leeds--Grenville knew was broken. It is part of the response that the people in my riding expected from their new government and I know that they stand behind it.

The bill is about strengthening and streamlining how government works, and to the joy of the people of Leeds--Grenville it is about making government more effective and more accountable. This bill begins to deliver on a promise that we made during the election campaign. The government is taking action to earn back the trust of Canadians.

The bill is about moving from a culture of entitlement to a culture of accountability. It is about making everyone in government, from the Prime Minister on down to elected members of Parliament, answerable to Canadians.

Bill C-2 is about letting Canadians know that their hard earned tax dollars are being spent properly and wisely. There is probably nothing that infuriates the taxpayers of my riding more than the belief that their tax dollars, the money that they work so hard for and then give willingly to the government as their due for living and working in this great country, are being misspent.

Changes for Canadians in the bill include: reducing the opportunity to exert influence with money by banning corporate, union and large personal political contributions; giving Canadians confidence that lobbying is done ethically with a five year lobbying ban on former ministers, their aids and senior public servants; by ensuring people who see problems in government are allowed to speak up by providing real protection for whistleblowers; and by ensuring Canadians know how their money is spent by enhancing the powers of the Auditor General to follow the money trail.

The government's proposals are not just being laid out like a skeleton on a table to be picked at and rearranged. I am pleased to see that my colleague, the President of the Treasury Board, put some meat on the bones when he tabled this bill by including an action plan that gives clear explanations and clear directions.

I mentioned earlier that nothing infuriates people in my riding more than not knowing what is happening with their tax dollars. Over the past number of years they have been as concerned as many others in this country about the amount of taxes that they pay compared with the federal surplus, which is large and growing. They have been most concerned by the federal government's practice of not being clear about the size of that surplus or what was being done with the money.

One of the keys to the federal accountability bill is the truth in budgeting provision and I want to spend the rest of my time talking about that aspect of the legislation.

Improving the transparency and credibility of the government's fiscal forecasting and budget planning process will help make it more accountable to Parliament and Canadians. No longer will the people in my riding pick up a newspaper one month and find that there is a $1.9 billion surplus and then a few months later turn around and find it was $9.1 billion. That is great that we had more money; however, we need to have truth in knowing how much money we have in order to make proper plans on how those tax dollars will be spent.

Truth in budgeting is very important for all parliamentarians and all Canadians. Parliamentary committees must have access to independent and objective analysis and advice on economic and fiscal issues. Committee members cannot review their committee estimates and listen to witnesses and make valuable judgments if they do not have accurate information about all the aspects, including budgetary information.

The federal accountability bill would expand the mandate and resources of the non-partisan Library of Parliament by establishing within it the position of parliamentary budget officer. It would give this officer the mandate to provide objective analysis to the Senate and to the House of Commons concerning the state of the nation's finances and trends in the national economy.

We will undertake economic and fiscal research for the Standing Committee on Finance, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts or the Senate Standing Committee on National Finance. On the request of these committees, we will estimate the cost of proposals currently or prospectively under consideration in either house when asked to do so by a member, a committee of the Senate or the House of Commons, or a committee of both houses. We will also require departments and agencies to provide the officer with any existing data necessary to fulfill his or her mandate.

I know the people of Leeds—Grenville are applauding. They are applauding these changes that will increase transparency in the government's fiscal planning process and will enable Parliament to better hold government to account. I am pleased to be here today to voice my support not only for this specific area of the federal accountability bill but for the entire bill.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, firms that lobby under this accountability bill can still apply for government contracts. There is something wrong with this picture. Former public office holders can still go and work for lobbying firms as long as they are not registered lobbyists. There is also something wrong with this picture.

What I do not understand is, if we are talking about an accountable government, citizens need to know what the government is doing. If they do not know what the government is doing and they do not know where the money is going, they cannot get to the bottom of it. How could they hold the government accountable?

Ultimately, the most important piece in a very clean, transparent and democratic government is the right of the people to access information. That is the core of it. What I do not understand is how the Conservative government is starting to act like the former Liberal government. It has studied the whole question of access to information for 13 years and has not done anything.

The new government has said it wants change and it wants to stand up for Canadians. If that is the case, let me ask one question. Which is more important? The right of Canadians to know or the government's right to keep the information secret. What is more important? Is the right of Canadians to know more important? Or, is it the government's right to keep--

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Leeds—Grenville.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that for so many years it was who one knew in the PMO. That is why the government is bringing forth this bill as the first act of this new Parliament to clean up government.

Canadians have been asking this for so long. As I said in my presentation, in 2004 the people of my riding of Leeds--Grenville voted for that change and they are so happy that now this government is now in place to bring the bill forward. This will go a long way toward cleaning up government and Canadians are behind it.

I urge the hon. member to get behind the bill, so that we can get it through Parliament as quickly as possible and clean up government. Canadians will once again have confidence in their country and their government.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of examples of where things are happening, like the appointment of Gwyn Morgan, who is a Conservative fundraiser, as the appointments commissioner and the transition secretary who has now gone to a lobby firm and is registered but is not going to be subject to this legislation. The government is doing all of this in advance of passage of this bill.

I have a sincere question. It has to do with political donations. In terms of adjusting the amount of donations, I am not sure of what is meant by a secret donation? I understand a donation to be something that is ordinarily receiptable, but what is a secret donation? I would like to understand what we are voting on.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is a reason that we had a Gomery inquiry. We are debating this bill today because secret political contributions were made and documented in the province of Quebec. Brown envelopes bursting with cash were handed over under restaurant tables. The party that was named in the Gomery inquiry is the Liberal Party.

That is what the bill is all about, to put an end to that type of contribution. The bill will ensure that no longer will there be that type of contribution.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-2. There have been a number of very eloquent speakers from the New Democratic Party caucus, including the member for Trinity—Spadina.

To start, it is important to go back to the 38th Parliament. In a sense, the roots of Bill C-2 come from the constant corruption that was exposed through the course of the 38th Parliament. We sat here throughout 2004 and 2005 and we saw the results of the sponsorship scandal, the reports that Judge Gomery produced and his very clear indication of an ongoing culture of entitlement within the Liberal Party and the Liberal Party administration, something that most Canadians found absolutely reprehensible.

There were repeated scandals, including the David Dingwall scandal and the André Ouellet scandal, consistently and constantly exposed through our work in the House, a variety of misappropriations of Canadians' funds. We have to remember that we in the House are beholden to over 30 million Canadians from coast to coast to coast who want to see honesty and transparency in their government. That is a fundamental tenet at the roots of our democracy.

As the member for Trinity—Spadina mentioned a few minutes ago, we also saw the scandals that are emerging, such as the Toronto Port Authority scandal, something that came to light over the course of the fall. Basically $35 million has disappeared. The transport committee was starting to do its work to expose where that funding went. I am sure the transport committee will be starting its work again in the next week or two to trace that $35 million that was paid out through the Ministry of Transport, through very shoddy means in my opinion, and without the accountability that must come with the use of any public funds.

We saw corrupt event after corrupt event after corrupt event. Things fundamentally needed to change. That is why through the course of the most recent election campaign Canadians decided to elect more Conservative MPs, certainly, but also fundamentally change the composition of the House by electing more New Democratic Party of Canada members of Parliament to come in and to clean up the House of Commons and Parliament so that it is at the level that Canadians expect and at the level that Canadians deserve.

Canadians want to see much more accountability and accessibility and much more honesty and transparency in government operations. They are the ones who pay for our government. They are the ones who deserve the right to have the knowledge of what is happening at all times in our government. What we want to do, and need to do, is eliminate the secrecy and the corruption that has characterized the last few years in Parliament.

Ed Broadbent, a former parliamentarian, the former member for Oshawa and most recently the former member for Ottawa Centre, has been replaced by somebody who is just as good, or even better, which is saying quite a great deal. Mr. Broadbent presented in the 38th Parliament a seven point plan to clean up government, to clean up Parliament and to bring about the government and public administration that Canadians deserve. It is important, when we go back to the issue of Bill C-2, to see how the accountability act actually corresponds to what Mr. Broadbent proposed a few months ago.

Mr. Broadbent talked about the banning of contingency fees for lobbyists. That certainly is in the legislation and is something we strongly support. Also within the legislation and proposed by Mr. Broadbent was the toughening up of lobbyist regulations. However, there are elements missing when we talk about lobbyists, and I will come back to that in a moment.

Mr. Broadbent spoke of strengthening the Ethics Commissioner and certainly there are elements of that which are found in Bill C-2. He talked of improving the appointments process, appointing a parliamentary budget officer and extending the powers of the Auditor General. This is fundamentally important because what we saw over the course of the last Parliament and preceding Parliaments was money being constantly shifted away from the Auditor General's purview.

The Auditor General protects all Canadians by providing that third party independent verification of what is happening with public funds. The Auditor General plays an extremely important role in the life of our public administration and in our Parliament. It was important to extend the powers of the Auditor General. That is what Ed Broadbent proposed in his seven point plan and we are happy to see that element at least within the elements of Bill C-2.

However, there are crucial elements of the Broadbent plan that are missing. It is important to note that what Ed Broadbent did when he brought that forward was he set the bar at the level Canadians expect and at the level Canadians deserve. Anything short of that shows disrespect to the Canadian public. There are elements that were in the Broadbent plan that are not yet within Bill C-2.

I can promise, as can my colleagues in the New Democratic Party, that we are going to fight to make sure that those elements are included to make this accountability act one without holes and one that is truly at the level of Canadians' aspirations.

One of the key components of the Broadbent plan is to ensure that floor crossing without recourse to a byelection would be banned. I come from the riding of Burnaby--New Westminster. We have seen the public reaction in our neighbouring riding of Vancouver Kingsway to the floor crossing that occurred shortly after the election on January 23. People in the lower mainland of British Columbia continue to be outraged by the blatancy of that disrespect to the voters of Vancouver Kingsway.

We cannot have a full accountability act and restore the confidence that Canadians need to have in their parliamentary institutions unless we ensure that their votes count come election campaigns. Their votes can only count in election campaigns if people know that when they vote for that candidate and for that party, that situation will not change unless that individual comes back to the voters in a byelection.

In the case of Vancouver Kingsway, for those who have been in that riding in the past few weeks, literally more than a thousand signs have been placed throughout the riding by individuals who are saying very clearly that this floor crossing has to stop. That was in the Broadbent plan. It is not in this legislation. That is a serious gap, a serious hole in this legislation. We will be fighting to repair that breach in accountability, to repair that hole in the legislation.

There is also the whole issue of access to information reform. The member for Trinity--Spadina referred to that a few minutes ago. There is the issue of the Toronto Port Authority and the scandalous use of $35 million of public funds for a reason that as yet is to be confirmed. There are no receipts, no idea where that money went.

As transport critic for the New Democratic Party, I put forth continued requests for access to information, as did many activists in the Toronto area. What we got was page after page after page of blanked out documents, in some cases 120 pages of papers that had been blanked out. In other words, to try to get to the bottom of that misuse of $35 million, we were completely stymied and stonewalled by the existing Access to Information Act.

The problem is we may extend an act that does not work. It may cover more areas, but all that means is that when Canadians make a request under the Access to Information Act, they will get more pages back that are blanked out in more areas. It does not mean there is any guarantee of actual access to information. This is a serious flaw in the accountability act. In this corner of the House we will be fighting to have a real freedom of information act that actually allows access to information, which Canadians must have to make absolutely sure that Parliament is transparent and honest.

Finally, there is the issue of fixed election dates. Mr. Broadbent referred to this in the Broadbent plan for accountability for Parliament. We need to have election dates that everyone is aware of to end the manipulation around when election dates might occur. Fixed election dates have been a long-standing commitment of our party so Canadians can be comforted in knowing when elections might occur.

There are parts of this legislation we support and parts that we will fight to improve. The New Democratic Party believes this is of fundamental importance in this Parliament.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I certainly do agree with the member with regard to the Access to Information Act. A number of members of his party and our party had been working on a committee. He may recall that John Bryden, a former member, led an ad hoc committee. The member for Winnipeg Centre reintroduced the Bryden bill as a private member's bill and carried it some way.

I would like the member's comments on a more global question with regard to accountability. The approach by the government to this federal accountability bill is to say it wants the bill delivered back and passed by the summer. At this point we have not had the benefit of expert testimony from the public service or experts from other areas relating to the bill. Many bills are going to be affected by this legislation, such as the Canada Elections Act, the Access to Information Act, the Privacy Act, and the whistleblower act which was passed and given royal assent in the last Parliament but still has not been proclaimed. The Conservatives want to take credit for that once this bill is passed.

It seems to me that to suggest that we can today set a deadline at which time something must be done is almost contemptuous of parliamentarians and restricts our ability to do our job. We do not control what witnesses are going to be necessary and whether or not there is going to be consensus. I wonder if the member would like to comment on the--

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Burnaby--New Westminster.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, there are two elements to this. One is the timelines that are set out for this summer. The whole issue of accountability is one of fundamental importance to the Canadian public. It is important that we proceed forthwith to put in place more accountability, to broaden the mandate of the Auditor General, to broaden the whole issue of access and transparency within our public administration. I and my colleagues in the New Democratic Party are certainly willing to work as hard as we can to move the bill forward.

However, we are not prepared to say that there should be no amendments, that there should be no changes, that somehow this is a take it or leave it proposition. With the softwood sell-out that was discussed earlier today in the House, we are seeing that this idea of a take it or leave it proposal is absolutely unacceptable. There are serious flaws in this legislation. We want to work in committee to address these flaws, to fill these holes. To have it done through a special legislative committee that does not allow for amendments would be completely inappropriate.

I share the member's concerns in terms of moving this along, but we have to address the holes and the flaws in the legislation so that Canadians get the kind of legislation they expect and deserve.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I commend my colleague from British Columbia.

Before asking him my question, I must say that listening to my colleague from the NDP talk about members who cross the floor of the House has got me thinking. For example, Robert Toupin, a Progressive Conservative MP, crossed the floor to join Ed Broadbent in the NDP during Mr. Mulroney's first or second mandate. This begs the question, if it was acceptable at the time then why is it no longer acceptable now. Why put so much emphasis on this if you cannot lead by example? What is more, a former NDP minister from British Columbia is currently a member of the Liberal Party of Canada and a former NDP premier of Ontario wants to become leader of the Liberal Party of Canada.

My question is on clause 44 of the bill, about the information from the public. I find that elected members are being given a very heavy responsibility in having to accept reports of acts of wrongdoing. Hon. members are being asked to judge the reports of wrongdoings by an individual, a member of society. Under the bill, if we deem the report serious enough, we have to take an oath and try to clarify the situation.

I simply want to know whether we could have a system like the one used by the official languages commissioner for example. In that system, the complaint is addressed to the commissioner rather than to an hon. member—

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I am sorry, but we do have to allow the hon. member for Burnaby—New Westminster time to respond. The member for Burnaby—New Westminster for a brief response.

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for his question.

As far as floor crossers are concerned, the Ethics Commissioner conducted a study on the number of members from each party who have crossed the floor of the House in 100 years and the NDP came in last. We have had six deserters in 100 years. The NDP does lead by example. There are many past examples proving that once a person becomes a new democrat they stay a new democrat. There are always exceptions, but very few in our case.

The hon. member for Gatineau also asked a question about clause 44 of the bill. We share his concerns about some parts of the bill. That is precisely why the NDP feels that—

Federal Accountability ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. I apologize for interrupting the hon. member, but it is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Ottawa—Vanier, Culture.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Crowfoot.