House of Commons Hansard #42 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was asbestos.

Topics

*Question No. 30Starred QuestionsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Parry Sound—Muskoka Ontario

Conservative

Tony Clement ConservativeMinister of Health and Minister for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario

Mr. Speaker, the answer is as follows: a) The Government of Canada intends to compensate those infected with hepatitis C through the Canadian blood system before 1986 and after 1990 as quickly as possible. Much work is underway on the steps needed to reach an agreement with the class. Given that this is a negotiation, no firm date can be provided as to when an agreement will be reached, but the Government of Canada is ensuring that all necessary steps in this process, that are within its control, are completed as quickly as possible.

b) Upon taking office, the Government of Canada immediately proceeded with its campaign commitment--work is ongoing. The most recent negotiating session was held on May 24-26, 2006. This is a complex issue with many stakeholders, and the Government of Canada is working diligently to provide compensation to the class as quickly as possible.

c) For the issues that it is able to influence, the Government of Canada is taking all possible steps to quickly reach an agreement with the class and provide compensation. The Government of Canada will proceed as quickly as possible but some factors are outside of the government’s control, for example, the process of obtaining court approvals of any proposed settlement agreement. After court approval, an administrative process to evaluate and pay compensation must be established.

d) As per the memorandum of understanding signed by both sides in November 2005, determining the eligibility criteria for compensation is part of the process of settling with the class. Compensation programs established to date, the 1986-1990 agreement, the Red Cross settlement, and provincial compensation programs, have used an application and evaluation process to determine eligibility. Eligibility criteria, and a process to evaluate eligibility and compensate class members will be established in a final settlement.

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre Saskatchewan

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, if Questions Nos. 22 and 23 could be made orders for return, these returns would be tabled immediately.

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Is that agreed?

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Question No. 22Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Fontana Liberal London North Centre, ON

What projects has the government undertaken, or does it plan to undertake, in the fields of science and research from 2002-2003 to the forecasted fiscal year of 2007-2008, and, in each case and for each ministry or department involved: (a) how much was disbursed; (b) were the projects partnered with (i) private firms, (ii) public firms, (iii) academic institutions; (c) what was the specific purpose of the disbursement; and (d) what is the projected duration of the project, and, if the program has been discontinued, cancelled, suspended or not renewed since February 1, 2006, what is the reason for the action taken?

(Return tabled)

Question No. 23Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

With respect to the arbitrator’s report on the dispute between Transport Canada and the Maritime Harbour Society over the Port of Digby: (a) what action does the government intend to take in response to the arbitrator’s report; (b) how will the government assure that the interests of the people of Digby are respected, promoted and protected; (c) will this facility be acquired by the government, entrusted to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and managed by a local harbour authority?

(Return tabled)

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all remaining questions be allowed to stand.

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Is that agreed?

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-5, An Act respecting the establishment of the Public Health Agency of Canada and amending certain Acts, be read the third time and passed.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased, on behalf of New Democratic Party, to join in the debate at third reading of Bill C-5, an act respecting the establishment of the Public Health Agency of Canada and amending certain acts.

I and the people of my riding are proud to have the federal virology laboratory located in the riding. We have taken a great personal and professional interest in following the evolution of the realization that our public health initiatives are equally important and perhaps even of more importance than our health care system generally in that our health care system dedicates so much of our resources and energies to fixing people after they are broken. The public health regime is dedicated to elevating the standards of our general health and, hopefully, preventing people from getting sick.

I think all the authorities in the field of delivering health care have come to the realization that it is all about finding better ways to create a healthier population. We support Bill C-5 and this initiative because it would take us one step further in prioritizing the public health of Canadians at least equally with the priority of helping Canadians once they have been stricken with an illness and helping them to cope with it.

In giving thought to the issue of greater public health, this debate gives us the opportunity to review some of the accessible things without a great deal of expense and resources spent that would have a direct impact on public health.

I note that the creation of the new Public Health Agency of Canada would also create the chief public health officer whose mandate surely would be one of education, to help Canadians understand and realize what steps they can take to create a healthier population and enjoy a better quality of life. As a secondary benefit, it would take enormous pressure off our overtaxed public health care system.

A couple of obvious things come to mind, which I sincerely hope the newly appointed chief public health officer would be seized of. One is the fact, and I say this with some shame, that Canada is still one of the world's leading producers and exporters of asbestos. It is hard to imagine in this day and age of scientific awareness of the health hazards of asbestos, but we continue to produce and export it at an alarming rate of 240,000 tonnes per year. We know that one fibre can and has caused devastating health conditions for those who, after a terribly cruel and long incubation period, are struck down with mesothelioma, the cancer caused by asbestos.

We should encourage our newly created public health officer to address the asbestos issue because there is no business case to continue supporting the asbestos industry the way we do. We are one of the world's largest producers and exporters of asbestos while the rest of the world is banning it. The entire European Union has banned asbestos, as has France.

In fact, Canada went to the WTO to stop the banning of asbestos, if anyone can believe that, which is why I said that I had introduced this issue with some trepidation and some shame. Canada tried to intervene to stop the good people of France from banning asbestos by claiming that it would be a trade barrier. We would not be able to sell our Canadian asbestos to France anymore. Fortunately, Canada lost and France won at the WTO and France continued in its logical step of trying to get this poison away from its citizens.

France is now calling for a global ban on asbestos. It is rare for a nation state to appeal to other nation states in this era of delicate diplomatic relationships but France is calling, very overtly, for a ban on asbestos globally. I hope Canada heeds the message and takes note of that.

Last week the ILO, the International Labour Organization, passed a resolution calling for a ban on all forms of asbestos. The world should no longer be exposed to asbestos and yet we continue to dump corporate welfare into the crippling asbestos industry in the province of Quebec.

I know the hazards of asbestos because I used to work in the asbestos mines. I have friends who have died and friends who are dying of asbestos related diseases. I know how we were lied to about asbestos and how that industry continues to lie to Canadians and to the world about the effects of asbestos. It is not overstating things to say that the asbestos industry is the tobacco industry's evil twin in the damage it causes to the general public health in Canada where the countryside is littered with asbestos, even in the buildings that we work in on Parliament Hill and around the world.

The only place Canada can find a market for its asbestos is in the third world, developing nations, that rarely have health and safety measures at all, much less ones that are enforced. We do not see HEPA filters on a day labourer in Pakistan who is shovelling Canadian asbestos from a wheelbarrow into a pile of cement to make asbestos cement tiles. I have seen the pictures. The labourers are barefoot, bare chested and have no health protection whatsoever. It is happening as we speak with Canadian asbestos.

I hope our new chief public health officer listens to the world and ignores the asbestos industry, stops giving corporate welfare to these guys and stops using our Canadian embassies to promote asbestos. One hundred and twenty conferences in 60 different countries were paid for by the Asbestos Institute, which is funded by the federal government, to promote Canadian asbestos. At the most recent one in Jakarta in May, the Canadian embassy was used to host this asbestos promotion event which was paid for by the Government of Canada. I think it is appalling.

The second issue I would like to touch on in terms of public health is in the context of the new Public Health Agency of Canada and the role of the chief public health officer. I hope the new chief public health officer will take note of the fact that over 90 Canadian municipalities have banned the cosmetic non-essential use of pesticides in their municipalities. I hope he takes note of the courage and tenacity that it takes on the part of often volunteer reeves and councillors of small municipalities and cities who only work part time in many cases.

Those individuals have to stand up to the massive chemical lobbyists who pounce on communities. As soon as they indicate that they are interested in banning the non-essential cosmetic use of pesticides, they get inundated with the lawyers, the lobbyists and the threatened lawsuits that the cosmetic use of pesticides cannot be banned because it is an unfair trade restriction and they have no jurisdiction. They bog them up in the courts for years trying to stop them from doing what common sense dictates they do.

That is the situation that over 90 municipalities in Canada have had to struggle through. The City of Ottawa failed by one vote after two years of trying. I hope our new national chief public health officer can recognize the problems the municipalities must struggle with and encourage the government to do nationally what municipalities are forced to do municipally.

Parliament had an opportunity to pass an NDP opposition day motion to ban the cosmetic non-essential use of pesticides and to lend support to those courageous municipalities. I should point out that Hudson, Quebec was the first municipality in Canada that managed to do this. It was in response partly to two young men in the area of Hudson, Quebec who lived in the vicinity of five golf courses that were regularly sprayed with these chemical pesticides. The cluster of chemical and environmentally related cancers in that area was astounding.

Those two young men both contracted brain cancer in their early teens. They made a pact with each other that if either of them survived the other would go on to be a champion of having these pesticides banned. One died and the other went on to be a champion. I have heard him speak and I wish everyone in the House of Commons could hear him speak.

Those communities, one by one, were banning cosmetic pesticides until the entire province of Quebec did so, to its great credit. The province took it out of the hands of those struggling municipalities. It said that it would stand up to the big chemical companies, that it would fight the court cases on behalf of the municipalities and that it would do away with the hundreds of thousands of kilos per year of usage of non-essential cosmetic pesticides.

True public health is when we take steps to try to improve the general health of our population. It does not make sense to wait until more and more people contract environmentally triggered cancers and then scramble for the money to find better treatments for those people. I do not think we will ever keep up.

My home province of Manitoba now spends 42% of its provincial budget on health care, and it is not enough. We still have waiting lists. We still do not have enough CAT scans. I do not think it will ever be enough until we turn off the tap at the front end and have less people coming into the system with catastrophic diseases, these appalling cancers.

There is a terrible statistic of which we should all be cognizant and of which we should all take note as members of Parliament. My children are in their twenties. Of their generation, 50% of them will die of cancer. People say that it is because they are living longer. That is not true. It is because they are being exposed to a chemical soup that is unprecedented in the history of mankind. It is only in the post-war years that the petrochemical industry has exploded and the exposure to new chemical compounds has exploded as well.

The burden of proof to prove that they are dangerous is on us, and that is the problem. We tried to put forward a motion in the House of Commons that would put the burden of proof on the manufacturers. They would have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that a product would not harm us before the product could be sold. Instead, it is innocent until proven guilty for chemicals.

Manufacturers are allowed to put chemicals on the market with very little oversight, other than their own testing, which has self-interest to it. Then, after 20 or 30 years of usage, if we can prove there is enough people affected with cancer from their product, maybe then we can start to fight to get it taken off the market. We want the onus to be reversed. I hope we have an ally in our new Chief Public Health Officer, through the Public Health Agency of Canada. We will be appealing that to the person who takes the job. We will be asking for help to keep Canadians safe from this rampant exposure to the chemical soup.

I will not dwell on this much longer because I know I have to speak directly to the bill. However, there is a compounding effect of which none of us are aware. Even if we accept the chemical companies at their word, that compound A, in and of itself, is not harmful to us, there is another chemical company selling compound B to us. When compound A and compound B join forces in our kidneys, our livers and other organs, they create compound C, which kills us.

That is what we are faced with this and that makes it difficult for us to prove any one chemical causes this reaction. Our bodies are saturated with a chemical soup of 20 different compounds. We need to minimize the exposure, especially among infants and pregnant women, and we do that by proactively reversing the onus. The burden of proof has to be on the manufacturer.

I welcome the creation of the new Chief Public Health Officer because it gives us somebody to whom I can appeal. Parliament rejected our idea out of hand. It is let the free market prevail, people will not buy the product if it is killing them. If it kills them, then they will not be buy it so the company will go out of business. That is not good enough for leadership in terms of our public health.

The last thing, in the context of public health and achievable doables, to which this Parliament could attend itself, is the issue of trans fats. Many of us who were here in the last Parliament know NDP put forward an opposition motion on my private member's bill to eliminate trans fats, to take them right out of our system.

The Liberal government put in place measures to require mandatory labelling of trans fats. In other words, the Liberal Department of Health acknowledged that it was desirable to get trans fats out of our system or to at least eliminate Canadians' exposure to trans fats. Its proposed methodology, though, was to require labelling.

We are grateful the government at least acknowledged the issue, but it is not okay to put poison in our food just because it is properly labelled. I will not accept that. Labelling is inadequate. A hungry teenager, standing in line at a fast food restaurant, will not spend a lot of time to compare the technical Latin terms of one chemical versus another in the concentration of that component of the french fries he or she buys. They are hungry and they will eat them. As a result, these deadly manufactured trans fats have poisoned a generation.

There is a class issue involved with this too. It takes a fair amount of economic security to eat well in Canada, to buy healthy fresh foods and to keep cupboards and fridges stocked with good food. Low income people, with less organized lives due to the pressures they face, are more likely to eat fast food. Canadians eat an average of 10 grams of trans fats a day. Teenagers eat as much as 35 grams of trans fats per day. According to the New England Journal of Medicine, one gram per day increases the risk of heart disease by 20%.

Scientists, who address research on trans fat, use the term “toxic”. It meets the literal definition of a toxin, yet it is common throughout all our processed foods. Western prairie farmers would thank us if we eliminated these partially hydrogenated oils. Certain strains of canola oil are the best alternative to trans fats in terms of shelf life and to maintain quality and taste without changing the product directly. If we were to ban trans fats, it would create an enormous burgeoning industry. Our three Canadian prairie provinces are the best places in the world to produce these strains of canola oil. We could provide the world with a safe oil so french fries could still enjoyed by our children, but would not kill them.

Even though I am pleased that we are seized of the issue of improving public health, it frustrates me that three achievable things are in front of us today, but we are not acting on them.

We should ban asbestos. We should stop mining and exporting asbestos to the Third World. Canada is viewed as being an international piranha. If we think we have a bad reputation for the seal hunt, ask other countries what they think about Canada dumping asbestos into the Third World. It is shameful that the federal government continues to undermine this dying and deadly industry. The asbestos mine I worked in closed. It died a natural death due to market forces. I do not care if the remaining asbestos mines are in Quebec, but they should be shut down and allowed to die a natural death too. By staying open, they are killing a lot of people.

We do not need to read Silent Spring again to know that chemical pesticides have a dilatory affect on our organs and our quality of life.

We need to ban trans fats. For Heaven's sakes, what is the holdup? Members do not have to listen to me, but they should listen to the Heart and Stroke Foundation. They should listen to Dr. Wilbert Keon and Senator Yves Morin, a Liberal senator and a Conservative senator, who worked with me on the trans fat initiative. These gentlemen are heart surgeons; I am just a carpenter.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

An hon. member

You work with the Conservatives too much.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas and some of those Conservatives actually know what they are talking about. Yet Parliament did not take any action, even though some of the world's leading authorities on cardiac health insisted that we do so. Denmark banned trans fats and we should ban trans fats.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativePresident of the Treasury Board

Mr. Speaker, I listened, with great interest, to the speech of the member for Winnipeg Centre. He obviously brings a lot of passion to this issue.

While he spoke a lot about the Public Health Agency, which is important for the future of the country, and he spoke a lot about trans fats, most notable is the fact that he did not speak about the federal accountability act.

I would be remiss if I did not stand in my place and acknowledge the terrific amount of work that member has done to ensure we deliver accountability to the federal government. He should be congratulated for his hard work and for standing up for principle.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, the President of the Treasury Board, for recognizing the joint contribution that was made to move the federal accountability act through its stages in the committee. It was shepherded masterfully through the committee stage by committed people, by those who stand up for openness and transparency. They had to go to the wall, because openness and transparency has its enemies.

In the past I have quoted a British TV show Yes, Minister in which Sir Humphrey is talking to the prime minister. He says, “You can have open government or you can have good government, but Mr. Prime Minister, you cannot have both”.

This is a shocking signal. There are opponents to the idea of open government. It takes political courage to champion the concept and to stand by it, to bring it to fruition and to make manifest these lofty principles, which were only clichés under the last government, of transparency and accountability. To make that manifest will be to the betterment of all of us.

Under the new access to information provisions, which we forced through on Bill C-2, anyone who wants to know about the inner workings of the public health agency, the financing, funding and administration, would be able to file an access to information request. Prior to to those motions being passed in committee, that would have been excluded. This new agency would have been operating in the dark because it would not have fit in the definition of government institution.

We have made great progress for Canadians. I hope Canadians realize that we are at the end of an era and at the start of a new era, I would hope, in terms of accountability and transparency.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is always appropriate to make some linkages, but it was stretch to talk about the accountability act and this agency. However, members make choices.

The member went further than the bill. He said the agency was fine. We know the agency was there in September 2004. We know that Dr. David Butler-Jones already had been appointed by order in council. The bill, of the last Parliament, substantively gives it parliamentary recognition.

The important part is with regard to the mandate and the raison d'être. Concerns have been raised about pandemic issues, chronic disease, breast cancer and the kinds of things that are big hits to Canadians in risks to health. The other issue I heard in committee, in looking at the testimony and listening to some of the debate, was the logistics of establishing the agency in a way which might lead to greater bureaucracy, or some empire building and possibly some lack of integration of the programs throughout Health Canada.

Everything is still operating under the umbrella of Health Canada. However, as we create and formalize the agency, notwithstanding it still will report through the minister to the House, it will have its own life in these matters. Therefore, it is important to not only establish the agency with an appropriate mandate, but also to ensure, operationally, that the agency will be effective in its job.

I could only think that may be the linkage between the agency and the federal accountability act. With all the best interests at heart, legislation will not guarantee that an agency operates properly. This is the area in which we should be vigilant, and I think the member would agree.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, as is often the case, the member for Mississauga South has a valid point.

I appreciate that he reminded me to pay tribute to Dr. David Butler-Jones. As my colleague from Mississauga knows, the federal microbiology lab where Dr. Frank Plummer and Dr. Butler-Jones work is located within my riding. We are very proud to have that lab in my riding and play that role in the network of public health agencies across the country.

The member raised some valid concerns regarding the act. I do not know why the power to enforce the Quarantine Act remains with the Minister of Health when there is a new Chief Public Health Officer. Surely that officer is more specialized and capable. There is more professional competency, with no disrespect to the Minister of Health, within the Public Health Agency than there is in the Minister of Health's office.

I do not understand why the Public Health Agency is not given the authority to act cross-boundary. If a crisis transcends a provincial-territorial border, what disease recognizes provincial and territorial borders? What outbreak or crisis that the Chief Public Health Officer has to deal with is going to stop at the border? I do not understand some of those aspects of the bill.

Even though the new Public Health Agency has been seized with being ready for things such as West Nile virus, another SARS outbreak, or Asian flu, I want the new agency to be seized with some of the ongoing public health concerns that I identified, such as asbestos, the cosmetic non-essential use of pesticides, and the pervasive use of trans fats in processed food. These are things the agency could do on an ongoing basis through education, through educating lawmakers like us, through advocacy, things that are not crisis oriented but are general public health oriented.

That is the way we will elevate slowly the standard of general health in our country. We do not just need better ways to fight and combat disease. We need prevention. I hope that with the emphasis on energy and resources, we will be prioritizing prevention at least as much as cure.

Public Health Agency of Canada ActGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, when I was first elected in 1993 and when the 35th Parliament opened in January 1994, one of the issues was our health care system. It continues to be the top priority of Canadians today. At the time there was a commitment of the party that formed the government to establish a national forum on health, because there was this looming concern about whether or not our health care system was prepared to meet the challenges that we were facing. Some of the signals were already showing.

I had served for about nine years on the hospital board in Mississauga, so I was quite interested in the health files. After nine years on the board I had learned a little about our health system, how complicated it is and how extremely important it is to deal with prioritization. Therefore, when I came to Parliament, I asked to be on the health committee.

I raise this because the first meeting I ever attended as a parliamentarian was a meeting of the health committee. The officials gave us a presentation on the state of the health care system in Canada. What I will never forget, and it still continues to be reflected in what we are talking about in Bill C-5, is they said that 75% of what we spend in the health care system is for the remediation of problems and only 25% is for prevention. Their conclusion was that that model was unsustainable. They were right.

Even back in 1993 there were the same concerns about whether or not we had the right balance between prevention and dealing with problems after they had occurred. That is why since 1993 there have been significant programs with regard to the responsible use of alcohol, smoking cessation, and the like. These are directly related to a conscious decision by Health Canada to get the balance a little better and shift from dealing with problems after they have occurred to prevention.

As we go through all of this, it is extremely important that we do not abandon those who are ill. At the same time, while stabilizing the problems that are there already, as economic circumstances will permit, we still have to make those investments.

The genesis of this bill goes back to even before I became a member of Parliament. Sometimes things in this place take a long time to ultimately happen. There are linkages. Everything has a history. There certainly is a history here and rather than repeat a lot of the information that was given by members already, I wanted to add a little perspective. I wanted to provide some information to members and to Canadians about one of the principal areas of the mandate of this new agency, which actually started to operate in September 2004. This bill will give some parliamentary foundation to it. Its mandate is to strengthen Canada's public health and emergency response capacity.

Many members have talked about the SARS outbreak in 2003. In some areas of our country that was a very difficult time. Particularly in Scarborough, Ontario, there was some localization. In the Chinese community, the restaurants and some of the seniors' centres, all of a sudden there were problems. We could see that it was there. We received a failing grade on the report card on how we responded to that crisis. People were not sure what they were dealing with, how to deal with it, how to protect the health of Canadians.

Since that time, more and more people are becoming better informed about things like bird flu and pandemics. They are still a bit unsure about what these things are. Part of the principal mandate of the agency headed up by Dr. David Butler-Jones is to deal with preparedness for the big hit, for those things that really could impact.

I am told that if a pandemic of a certain viral strain or flu strain were to hit, in theory it could spread throughout the world in a matter of weeks. Those who have health difficulties may be the most vulnerable.

What do we do about all the caregivers, the doctors, nurses, paramedics and first responders who are exposed to all these things? What happens when they get sick and suddenly there is nobody to help? This could be very devastating. It has been a long time since Canada has had a pandemic.

I thought I would share with the House something which I wrote about a month ago on what is a pandemic. I received feedback from some constituents who thought it was helpful.

I wrote that there are three types of influenza currently in the news, the human influenza, the avian influenza and the pandemic influenza. Now all of a sudden, there is something new here.

Human influenza, the flu as we would typically know it, is a respiratory infection caused by an influenza virus. We are familiar with that. The strains circulate every year and make people sick. Most people will recover from the influenza within a week or 10 days. However, people generally over the age of 65 and children with chronic conditions, and chronic conditions are an important element, or weaknesses and deficiencies in the immune system, such as diabetes or cancer, are at greater risk of serious complications from some other diseases like influenza or flu. Pneumonia would probably be the most prevalent. Between 4,000 and 8,000 Canadians die annually of influenza. It is not an insignificant number, 4,000 to 8,000 Canadians, and we somehow take the flu for granted.

There is also the avian influenza. The media refers to it as the bird flu because birds seem to be the most prevalent transmitters of this strain of influenza. Birds and other animals, including pigs which are also very prevalent carriers of these viruses, also contact and transmit influenza. Wild birds in particular are natural carriers. They have carried animal influenza viruses with no apparent harm for centuries.

This is not something that was just created because of something else that we have done. This has been with us for a long time and is rearing its ugly head. How many times have we heard about medical problems which have been latent for many years and suddenly they crop up again? HIV-AIDS is another similar example of where people may have the virus but will not have full-blown AIDS for 10 years or even longer. There are latent problems.

Wildlife have carried animal influenza viruses with no apparent harm to themselves. Migratory fowl, ducks and geese carry viruses known as the H5 or H7 strain or some other subtypes. Currently there is an avian influenza called H5N1. We hear about H5N1 a lot. I wish it would be given a name that people could remember. That virus is circulating in southeast Asia and parts of Europe and is infecting many poultry populations and some humans.

We now have evidence that there is transmission to humans. This strain is highly pathogenic or highly deadly to birds and has infected a limited number of people, but still, it has infected people. There is no evidence that this virus has been transmitted from person to person. That would be the big step. Going from a bird to a human, yes, there has been some limited transmission, but when human to human transmission happens, it will be a whole different kettle of fish.

Why is it of concern? People are exposed to several different strains of influenza many times during their lives. Even though the virus changes, their previous bouts of influenza may offer some protection through the development of their own immune systems. However, three or four times each century, for some unknown reason and it was a surprise to me, a radical change takes place in the influenza A virus causing a new strain to emerge to which nobody will have immunity. It will be new. It will have morphed itself into something brand new.

One way that this radical change could happen is that a person sick with a human influenza virus also becomes infected with the avian influenza virus and the two viruses mix. This means that the avian influenza virus acquires some of the human influenza genes, potentially creating a new type of influenza. Now it is getting complicated. It is just like the human population. As families marry, it kind of spreads itself out. We are sharing and creating all kinds of uniqueness in terms of the degree of immunities that we have built up in our gene system and our gene pool.

There is no pandemic influenza in the world right now. That is good news. However, there were three influenza pandemics in the last century and scientists are preparing for another influenza pandemic. That is part of the responsibility of this agency.

We know it is coming. This agency has an enormous responsibility to ensure that we are absolutely prepared, as prepared as we possibly can be.

I did however learn a couple of other facts that I was not aware of that Canadians should also know. The Canadian pandemic influenza plan was released in 2004. It outlines the actions to be taken at various levels of government so that we have a coordinated response. This is a good thing.

The Public Health Agency of Canada continually monitors the influenza viruses. Obviously, we want to ensure that we are players in this game. We will adapt and revise that plan as more information becomes available and as the knowledge of pandemic preparedness globally becomes greater in terms of the risks associated with it.

There are vaccines and antivirals which are two components of our approach. There are two ways to deal with this. A pandemic vaccine cannot be developed until a new virus emerges. That means we have to wait until it happens before we can actually develop the medicine that is going to be necessary to treat it.

People have asked me if they should be stockpiling some of this stuff that they can get at the drugstore and they can get from their doctor who will give them a prescription. That is fine for a particular strain of a virus, but it is not going to do very much unless it is the same strain that actually becomes the pandemic virus. After the strain has emerged and has been identified, it actually is going to take about six months before the influenza vaccine can be developed.

We can imagine that in the six month period in the middle of a pandemic there are going to be some serious problems. In fact, we could not possibly develop enough of that vaccine to treat all Canadians at the same time, which means that all of a sudden some choices have to be made.

I mentioned earlier the caregivers, nurses, doctors, first responders and paramedics. These people need to be treated first because if we do not have them, we do not have the linkage to the medicines that we need. Therefore, the vaccine would not be available at the start of the pandemic and may be in short supply for some time. All of a sudden we begin to appreciate that this is a complicated issue. If this is all the agency has to do, it would be worth doing.

Canada has a contract with domestic suppliers to develop these vaccines at that point in time. Until that is available there are antivirals which will be an important part of the response. An antiviral is a medicine that destroys a virus or interferes with its ability to grow, but it is not a cure. Antivirals do not provide immunity. Antivirals are used for prevention, but the dose is much higher and has to be taken for as long as people are exposed to the virus. It is an interim measure. It is the best we could do without having the vaccine itself.

The combined federal, provincial and territorial governments currently own about 35 million capsules of an antiviral with 5 million additional capsules on order. The antivirals however are limited in their effectiveness and are therefore only part of the overall strategy.

People ask if we are ready for the pandemic. I suppose, in terms of the pills that we can take to ensure that, should it break, we will have something that will either prevent us from getting the virus, or if we have it, the pills will ensure that we do not have serious complications and maybe even die. All of a sudden, when we start talking in this context, we are talking about a major catastrophe. We are talking about a lot of people who will be impacted.

The final thing is, what can Canadians do themselves? At this time, if people are travelling to a foreign destination, they should check Health Canada's website and find out the risk elements and risk conditions that may exist there and what happens should they get sick abroad, et cetera. From country to country, particularly in some undeveloped countries, there are some risks.

Prevention is obviously the best defence. Besides getting an annual flu vaccine, personal basic hygiene will help to ward off sickness. We know that. I would refer members to the Health Canada website simply to get a little information about preparedness in terms of a pandemic possibility. It is really important.

Since the agency was established in September 2004 and the Chief Public Health Officer was appointed by order in council in September 2004, the bill is simply giving it a parliamentary foundation, which will allow it to continue. I do not think we will see any changes, other than it will have the ability to issue a report on its own through the Minister of Health. It still reports. It is actually a former department of the Ministry of Health that will now be an agency within Health Canada.

It is important to understand that there is a designated mandate. As I indicated, the first part of the mandate was to strengthen Canada's public health system and emergency response capacity; second, to develop national strategies for managing infectious diseases and chronic diseases; and third, to develop an integrated pan-Canadian public health plan that address chronic diseases, including cancer and heart disease.

In the brief time that I have remaining, I want to mention something else that did come up in some of my work as a member of that health committee and as a parliamentarian since.

One of the private member's bills that I introduced about five years ago called on the Government of Canada to establish the position of physician general of Canada. It was intended to be modelled somewhat after the surgeon general of the United States.

Canadians need some information about personal health. Seniors want to know about seniors issues and seniors illnesses. Youth may have questions about a disease or whatever. Women need information on things like hormones and have questions on whether or not breast self-examination is still useful. People have questions about health. I found it extremely difficult to get information out of Health Canada's website or through making direct enquiries to the Health Canada office.

However, if we were ever to visit the surgeon general's website in the United States, we would see that there is a portal or a link to cancer, if we want information on it . Whether a person is a youth, a senior, or a pregnant woman, if they are suffering from depression or there is a mental health issue, the website is set up so nicely to communicate with people. Too often governments do not have communications formats which are informative to people who just want some basic reassurance.

When there are emerging issues, such as something that has been with us for a long time like fetal alcohol spectrum of disorders, or FAS, should not someone be there pronouncing on the risk associated with doing this or not doing that, someone who has some credibility from within the health profession to assist Canadians with their health needs?

It would be complementary to what the health agency is doing. I hope we can find that portal for all of the other things that we have to care for in the best interests of the health of Canadians.

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1 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Ménard Bloc Hochelaga, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I had the opportunity to sit with him on the health committee for a few years. I know that these issues have concerned him for a long time. I remember that when we were both on the committee, we studied the issue of fetal alcohol syndrome. He also took part in the study of the federal tobacco control strategy. We also examined together in committee the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and we recently studied the issue of the Public Health Agency of Canada.

For those who are watching us, I will say that this initiative was launched under the Liberals and the Conservatives decided to maintain it. It is a bit surprising that we are studying such a bill today.

Health and public health, terms that we see in the title of the bill, are clearly not under federal jurisdiction.

I remind the House that we have modernized the Quarantine Act. The Bloc Québécois, in its usual positive spirit, which all hon. members in this place can confirm, worked extremely hard. In fact, we agreed that quarantine did indeed come under federal jurisdiction.

Does my colleague believe that the creation of the Public Health Agency of Canada constitute an encroachment on a provincial jurisdiction?

Would he not agree that federal epidemiological objectives as a whole could very well be reached under the Quarantine Act which is clearly under federal jurisdiction?

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1 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have worked with this member often. We worked on the AIDS file at the subcommittee on HIV-AIDS which he may recall, and a few others.

The synergy and the dialogue that has gone on within the health committee over all those years that we were involved together, such as the plain packaging for tobacco, is probably, in a microcosm, a reflection of the importance of us working together: the Bloc, the NDP, the Conservatives and the Liberals.

We achieve more as a group than we would ever achieve if we all went away and did our own thing. I would suggest to the member that quite possibly that is a good model also for Canada, that we work together.

Let me leave the member with what I honestly believe to be an important foundation value that I have. The measure of success of a country is not an economic measure. It is in fact the measure of the health and the well-being of its people. As a parliamentarian I have always tried to move toward those things which would in fact enhance the health and the well-being of the people, with full cognizance that some are better off and better able to care for themselves.

I would say that in regard to his question about dealing with this agency, Quebec can do certain things with the Quarantine Act, et cetera, but there are no boundaries to disease. It is very quick and we have a linked approach, not only to the provinces and the territories but internationally, to collaborate internationally, to make absolutely sure that we are part of the leading edge to address matters such as pandemics.

This is not a responsibility that each province should take individually. As the member well knows, in Canada some regions are not as well off as others and cannot do as much, or as comprehensively, or as good a job, or attract the kind of people they need. In fact, in some cases there may only be one or two individuals available in all of Canada who may be the people we need to lead in terms of pandemic preparedness, and I think Dr. Butler-Jones is one of them.

Therefore, how can we say that if a province can get somebody good enough, it will be taken care of, but if it cannot, that is its problem because we have ours? That is not the approach I take. As long as Canada is made up of 10 provinces and 3 territories, we are going to work on behalf of all Canadians, and in my Canada, that certainly includes my Quebec.

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1:05 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, seeing as the new public health officer was created under the Liberal government, perhaps my colleague from Mississauga South could tell us why the mandate of the new public health officer had what I would see as built in weaknesses, built in limitations such as that in the event of the Quarantine Act being implemented, which I would think would be at the very point we would want the public health officer to be in direction and control, the authority reverts back to the Minister of Health. I do not understand that.

I do not know if my colleague will be able to answer my next question because he cannot speak on behalf of the former government, but he has been a longstanding member of Parliament and was on the government side for many years. What was the attachment that the previous Liberal government had, and apparently the new Conservative government has, to the asbestos mines? Why this irrational commitment to an industry that is dying, an industry that is killing people and an industry that will collapse without the corporate welfare that successive governments continually shove at it?

The member's government was fairly right wing in its economic policies and the former prime minister, when he was minister of finance, was the most right wing finance minister in the history of Canada. Why did he support corporate welfare for asbestos mines that should have been left to die by market forces? Why this artificial life support to a deadly material that should be eradicated from the face of the earth?

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1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I took the time to get the transcripts of the committee meeting where the health minister spoke to Bill C-5 and to the issue raised by the member. With regard to the mandate issues, they may not have been structured or represented in the most efficient and most effective way with regard to things like the Quarantine Act.

I consider this to be an operational matter. The most important part, obviously, was with regard to the principal mandate issues being pandemic preparedness, emergency preparedness and chronic diseases, which the member's colleagues have spoken about quite well.

The question with regard to asbestos was interesting. I could go with a political attack but maybe I will go with the policy side and take the high road. The justice building, which was converted for MP offices, has asbestos in the walls. However it is the asbestos that is packaged in sealed packages and it is in a format that does not create the same problem that free, loose asbestos in the ceilings is causing in the West Block.

I could give the member a case of where this is a big problem and we need to get rid of it, but what about proper applications of certain chemicals or resources. I am not an expert on asbestos but I do know that within the last five years on Parliament Hill we have had both. If the member wants us to ban the production and use of asbestos in all its forms and that we should do whatever it takes because it is not good, he should spearhead that important initiative because I think he would get a lot of support. However, in the meantime--

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1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Hochelaga.