Debates of Dec. 11th, 2012

Income Tax Act

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join the debate and perhaps go back for a second or two and think about transparency, because the bill talks about unions and transparency. Let me give a couple of examples of transparency inside a union. As I said, I can do that from personal experience because I spent three terms-plus as the financial officer in one of the largest local unions in the country. I actually know of what I speak because I used to have to do it.

Here is a bit about transparency. I was empowered to spend up to $100 if I asked the executive board. However, on the government side, the Conservatives have an agreement called a FIPA with China. There is no transparency with that. They are not talking to us about it in the House of Commons, let alone to the Canadian public. We have on the union side, transparency, and on the government side, no transparency.

Then if we wanted to spend more than $100, I had to go to the executive board and ask, get approval and then take it to our membership's monthly meeting and say to the members what we would like to do, how much we would like to spend and ask if they would approve it and accept their judgment. Again, that is openness and transparency. What do we have on the other side? We have the Nexen deal from last Friday. Yes, we kind of did know and we kind of did not, but only under exceptional circumstances might we do it again. We asked the Prime Minister what those exceptional circumstances were. The reply was that the government could not tell us that yet.

On our side, we have the union movement, openness, transparency. On the government, side there is hiding, secretive, opaque, “let us not tell them, why should we ever tell the Canadian public anything”. Yet on the union side, we tell our members everything. Not only because we have an obligation through our constitutions, but we have an obligation to consult with them because we believe that consultation process should be upheld. We believe in openness and transparency with them, much to the chagrin of the member who brought the bill forward.

I am not so sure he ever belonged to a union. Perhaps he should have talked to those of us who were in the union movement first and we could have helped him explain that. Then again, he would not have been in the pockets of the Merit group. In which case when we talk to local 27 carpenters' union in Toronto about how they will then have to open up their collective agreements, the Conservatives always talk about not taking sides in the commercial environment.

The Merit group, a non-union contractor in the province of Ontario and across the country, can find out what that carpenters' local union, local 27 in Toronto, might be trying to do as it bids on work because of its ability to see inside the collective agreements. What benefit would that be to them? Perhaps they could undercut them. Perhaps they could ensure they did not certify a union if there were a union attempt. Again, local 27 is geared by openness and transparency for its membership and we have a government that is not.

I have a final piece of openness and transparency when it comes to the finances of unions. The financial officers are ultimately held responsible for the finances of the union. I know that all too well, having been one for a long period of time, elected in three consecutive terms. It says something about how I told my members what I did with their money, as I was obligated to do, and fulfilled the obligation. They elected me three times so I guess I fulfilled the obligation. That becomes the other open and transparent piece: their right to remove me as they see fit. In fact, they can recall me. My friends across the way at one time believed in that, but that has gone away. We still believe in it. Inside many unions across the country, they can still recall that individual elected official if they choose, but they certainly can replace that person at an election. Again, it is open, transparent and democratic.

Then there is CETA, the greatest hidden piece of free trade agreement with one of the largest economic blocks in the world, and not one single solitary syllable has been mentioned in the House from the Conservative government to anyone else, not even to their own backbenchers.

What do we have on this side? A union that is open, transparent, democratic. On that side it is opaque, undemocratic, collusive almost and certainly not forthcoming when it comes to information.

Perhaps they will finally bring their information forward about the FIPA with China, about the Nexen deal and about the CETA agreement. Perhaps we would then finally have that sense of openness.

Quite a few of my colleagues on this side of the House are from the union movement, as one the members mentioned before. We are proud to say that and happy to stand up and tell members about it, because at the end of the day, the only target is clearly the union movement. It is the only one that has been targeted in this legislation.

If the member wanted openness and transparency, then he would have lumped in all of the other great bastions of democracy, the C.D. Howe Institute, the taxpayers' federation, the National Citizens Coalition, all of those great groups that are transparent and open and tell us all of the things they do.

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

None of them force their members to give money.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Voluntary as well, Mr. Speaker.

The Rand formula will probably be the next point of attack, as it gives them certain rights. It was government that actually gave unions those rights; unions did not make them up but were given them by acts of provincial legislatures and Parliament. If my colleagues do not like the fact that the unions were there, then I guess they do not like the fact the government gave them those rights. I suppose that would lead one to say exactly what I said earlier, that we have an open, transparent and democratic system on the union side and we have a government that thinks they should not have those rights and that we should simply take them away. Therefore, this becomes an undemocratic piece. I guess the Conservatives do not believe in the legitimacy of government actually giving that right in the first place when it comes to the Rand formula.

Ultimately, this legislation is wrong-headed. As Carpenters' Local Union 27 said in Toronto, “This bill is about an attack on unions”. It is going to cost money to do this even though my friend and colleague has suggested perhaps it would not. He now knows that it will, and it will cost much more than he ever thought. The unions know that. The Conservative government knows that and its members ought to simply just sit down when it comes time to call it.

This is a wrong-headed piece of legislation.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the reality is that I am not pleased to be speaking to this bill because I do not think we should even have it on the table. We have a government that does not have the courage to do exactly what it wants to do, so it does what it always does, which is fly a trial balloon so that someone else does the leading and it can just play it and massage it as it wants. It is not being honest with the public about what its true agenda is. We we know for a fact, when we look at the ideology of the Conservative government, that respect for unions is not something it has.

We need to ask ourselves where Canada would be without the labour unions today. The pension systems, health care, a tremendous number of these things were brought to the table in a variety of different forms as a result of the work that unions did. For those who are anti-union and think it is not necessary to have one, I would ask people to think of what the country would be like without one. All progressive countries have a positive working relationship with the unions and have shown true leadership.

However, to bring a bill like this forward and to pretend that it is just a private member's bill, it is like the abortion issue. The Conservatives just keep flying a bunch of balloons on what they truly want to do just to keep putting wedges between people, the same way that we have had wedges on a variety of other important issues. This is just another way to split the labour movement against another whole bunch of people here in Canada. It is that continued opportunity to try to destabilize people and to pander to that 36% who elected the Conservatives.

To ask any other organization in this country to give all of this disclosure, one usually should show some leadership, right? However, that would mean that the government would be saying that everything is open. Instead, we have the exact opposite with the government. The Parliamentary Budget Officer, who was appointed by the Conservatives to help everyone understand the books better and to monitor the spending, cannot get any information and has to fight with the government every day just to get the basic spending and financial data he needs to do his job. Now he is at a point where he has to go to court to force the government to release the information. Now we have Bill C-377 that would tell everyone else that they need to disclose everything about what they do.

Government is supposed to be about leadership and the folks in the current government are going in the exact opposite direction. This is also the first government that has ever been found in contempt, which is an absolute disgrace for this country. The Conservatives do not care what the rules are. We know what they have done on the whole issue of the scandals and the election fraud. They do not believe in respect for the laws of this country and yet they are trying now to force unions to open up their books and divulge information that they would never do in a hundred years. This is all an attempt to break the back of the labour movement. This is just one more step they are using to try to get there.

When people have a decent pension, good health care and all the other kinds of things they want, they do not need to rely on the government for a hand-up when things get tough for them because they clearly have great programs in place. When we start to undo collective agreements, people start to lose all those safeguards they have, which, by the way, they pay for. No one has given anyone anything. All of the folks who work and contribute to the unions, they do not need to belong to any of them. They could be independent and do it on their own. No one forces anyone to belong to a union. People choose to belong to a union because there are a variety of safeguards, which means safer conditions than other job sites, but it also guarantees them support for their families. If someone gets killed on the job there is health and safety precautions, much more so than would be there if they did not have a labour union doing the leadership that it does.

I will get back to the Conservatives who continue to cut all kinds of programs. The second one is to go after the unions, destabilize them and try to break their backs. However, who will pay for all of the services that will be required? Someone will need to pay. I guess it will be downloaded to the provinces when it comes to the social services that are required. It should be a shame on the government and the hon. member who is bringing the bill forward. When he was on the agriculture committee he stood up and supported XL packers--

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I was never on the agriculture committee.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Well, he was there one time. He supported XL packers not being subject to disclosure, yet here he is today bringing this bill forward. Maybe his intention is to get into cabinet some day by being a front man for the government by bringing forth these—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale is rising on a point of order.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Speaker, just to clarify that, if the member opposite is referring to me, I have never sat on the agriculture committee. I am not sure to whom she is referring.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I really do not think that is a point of order. It is a matter of debate as to the facts by the hon. member. There may be other hon. members who will have the opportunity to comment on the question before the House, perhaps later this evening.

The hon. member for York West.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I just love the word “apologize”. I hear it a lot on this side of the House, but we never hear it on that side, so they should not go throwing around the idea that people should apologize. They have a whole lot of stuff and do not even know what the word means.

As we move forward on these agendas, this is another one of the trial balloons that continue to come forward in the Conservatives' effort to try to insert a wedge between and divide people all over the country. I think it is a real shame that we are even debating this bill, particularly when it has been fast-tracked. A lot of private member's bills take two years to go through the system, and this one has only taken six months or so to get through.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

It's been a year and a half.

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

A year and a half.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Well, that is pretty fast. When were the first and second readings? It is here today because the government wants it on the table and it wants us to vote on it. It wants to turn around with its whole way of being very negative. The amendments that were tabled, that my colleague from Cape Breton put forward, were all voted down. All we were trying to do is to say that if this is good for gander, it is good for the goose as well. Therefore, let us see the PMO open up its books and let everyone see it in the same way the Conservatives are asking of the unions. However, they are not prepared to do that because that is not the their issue; their issue is how to destabilize and break the backs of the unions.

I am glad I had this opportunity. I realize I am talking in the wind, because they have the votes. They will pass the bill tomorrow night and will have to live with the consequences. However, they are not here for a hundred years. The day will come when there will be an election and I expect there will be different faces on that side of the table at that time.

It has been important to have an opportunity to try to get some comments down. I remind people that the Conservatives have been found in contempt and the Prime Minister has yet to disclose even the donors to his leadership campaign. Therefore, if they want to start talking about who has to disclose what, who donated to the Prime Minister's leadership campaign? We are still asking for those things. If they are going to be fair here, then the Prime Minister should let Canadians know who donated to his campaign.

It is all one-sided. It is all about our having to disclose everything, or labour unions or other people, but any of their buddies or companies they want to favour, they will protect, and because they have a majority they get away with it. I think it is grossly unfair.

Our critic has done a tremendous amount of work on this file, as have my other colleagues in government. However, clearly, this will pass tomorrow night, which I say with great sadness, because it will start to pull back all of those various supports that are in place that people have enjoyed. These will just start to turn around and disappear through a variety of ways. Through the collective agreements, there will be changes coming.

We will move forward. We cannot do anything about it. It is here and will be voted on tomorrow night. I wanted to be on the record that I am very sad and discouraged that it is here and I challenge the government to be as open with everything it does, as it expects of other people. Bill C-377 is just one more step trying to undermine and defeat unions who have negotiated collective agreements and who are being totally disrespected as this moves forward.

The Liberals will be voting against Bill C-377, as we have made very clear. We asked to move some amendments and tried to get them on the record and voted on, amendments that would have made some positive changes to the bill. However, they were all voted down.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as a former member of the BCTF in British Columbia, I can say that this legislation is most welcome to those of us who are both former and current members.

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to Bill C-377, a private member's bill to amend the Income Tax Act to require labour organizations to publicly disclose their financial information. Before continuing, let me recognize the sponsor of this legislation, our Conservative colleague from British Columbia, the member for South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale. He has done a tremendous amount of work and research on the bill and is to be applauded for his work.

Since his election in 2004, the member for South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale has been very effective in his representation of his constituents and a well-respected parliamentarian. Indeed, that is why his constituents have re-elected him three times in a row and returned him to Ottawa to continue representing them so well. He has also continued the public debate on many issues, including the subject of today's private member's bill, which seeks to require public financial disclosure by organizations that receive substantial public benefits.

Unions play an important role in Canada, representing and defending the rights of workers. Each union represents health and safety in their jobs and ensures appropriate compensation for their members in accordance with negotiated collective agreements. Approximately 4.5 million Canadians currently pay union dues and many more millions have been unionized at one time or another. Labour organizations are influential institutions in Canadian society and the bill reflects the importance of each.

The bill, an act to amend the Income Tax Act (requirements for labour organizations), seeks to increase the transparency and accountability of all labour organizations as a result of the fact that they receive substantial public benefits through the tax system. The principle here is that, like charities, labour organizations receive public money and the public has a right to be informed about how foregone taxpayer dollars are being spent.

Since 1977, registered charities in Canada have been subjected to reporting requirements and public disclosure for over 30 years. This legislation would require every organized labour union in Canada to file a standard set of financial information with the Canada Revenue Agency each year, which would then be posted on its website for the Canadian public to see, just as is the case with charities. I will explain that in more detail in a moment for the benefit and education of the House and for Canadians watching at home. The public will be able to gauge the effectiveness, financial integrity and health of any union they wish. This legislation applies to all labour organizations that claim tax exempt status or whose dues payers receive a federal income tax deduction for their union dues, whether or not they are actual union members.

As promised, I would like to talk about the example of charities for a moment to more fully explain what is already required of them and how this private member's bill follows that example. As such, I will briefly provide the chamber with an overview of the measures currently in place to oversee financial disclosure by charities in relation to today's proposal.

The Canada Revenue Agency, also known as the CRA, has various tools at its disposal to monitor and disclose spending by Canadian charities. At the federal level, the CRA administers a system to registered charities under the Income Tax Act. As the regulator of charities, the CRA's responsibilities include processing applications for registration, offering technical advice on operating a charity, handling audit and compliance activities, and providing general information to the public.

The regulation of the charitable sector by the CRA is based on both common law and the provisions under the Income Tax Act. The common-law requirement that charities devote their resources to charitable activities is central to how the CRA provides guidance to the sector and enforces the rules. For instance, recent legislative and administrative reforms have given the CRA additional compliance tools for use in regulation of the charitable sector, such as intermediate sanctions in the form of taxes or penalties for charities that do not comply with the requirements of the Income Tax Act. Prior to this, the only sanction available to the CRA was the revocation of registered charity status.

At the same time, the concept of undue personal benefit was clarified in the Income Tax Act. As a result, in the case of excessive executive compensation, the CRA has the authority under the Income Tax Act to conduct an investigation to determine whether the charity is indeed fulfilling its charitable purposes. It also has the authority to determine whether there is undue personal benefit and to impose a range of penalties up to and including a suspension of receipting privileges.

There is also more public information available today on the activities of registered charities. This helps increase accountability in the sector by providing prospective donors with the information to determine for themselves whether or not they would like to donate to a particular charity. Under the Income Tax Act, all registered charities are required to complete a registered charity information return, which is published on the Canada Revenue Agency website and includes information about compensation.

What is more, our Conservative government recently made a key change to further improve accountability of charities. Up until 2008, charities were required to report on the compensation for the five highest-paid employees, and indicate their salary range, with the last threshold being $119,000 and over. We changed that. Starting in 2009, charities were required to report the 10 most highly compensated positions. Annual compensation categories were also expanded, with the last threshold being $350,000 and over.

The introduction of this new reporting on employee compensation has served as a key tool to help increase transparency to show how charitable resources are being used, providing Canadians who generously donate their hard-earned money with even more information to help guide their decisions about giving.

One wonders, if charities are required to submit all such information and have it disclosed, should not union members and the Canadian public have the same type of information about organized labour? Many people have asked that question and have suggested it is appropriate.

Gregory Thomas, the federal director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, had much to say about this issue in an article published in an October issue of The Chronicle Herald newspaper entitled, “Putting unions, charities on same playing field”.

Let me conclude by quoting an important passage from that article that I suggest everyone read.

The Income Tax Act gives tax breaks to Canadians for various purposes. However, there are two major groups in particular that benefit most directly from tax breaks within the act: registered charities and labour unions.

While both groups benefit from taxpayer-aided income tax laws, the way they disclose to the public what they do with the money is very different.....

Charities in Canada receive a pretty decent taxpayer-funded advantage. If you donate money to a registered charity, you get to claim a hefty tax credit when you file your annual return. In return for this favoured tax treatment, charities are required, by law, under the Income Tax Act, to make annual financial filings and disclose their salaries, revenues and expenses. In fact, you can look at every charity’s filing online on the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) website.....

However, despite their tax-advantaged status, Canada’s unions are currently not required to submit any public financial disclosures to the CRA, let alone the public.....

Some unionized workers have spent thousands of dollars, and big chunks of their lives, battling to get a look at their union’s books. In B.C., the United Food and Commercial Workers Union fought these workers in multiple labour relations board and court hearings, in a bid to deny them five years of financial statements. The case raged on for years. When it was finally decided in the Supreme Court of B.C., it came to light that the financial statements for 2002 through to 2007 weren’t even compiled until the end of 2007 and early 2008.

Examples like this go to show that the legislation is long overdue. Canadian workers are entitled to greater fiscal transparency and accountability from their labour unions. It is for that reason that I urge all members to support this important bill, and especially coming from a former BCTF member, I encourage all people in this House to support the bill.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to begin today with a couple of quotes.

The Canadian Bar Association said: “It is difficult to see what issues or problems this bill is trying to fix. It provides for a greater public disclosure of information on labour unions' financial operations and restricts their political and lobbying activities through mechanisms that could be problematic constitutionally and in terms of privacy”.

The member who sponsored this bill, who is in the House with us today, said that public disclosure, which will help the public better understand how the benefits are provided, is being utilized. He also said in an interview that he had not received a single call or complaint from any member of a union or the general public, saying that they wanted the information that they were unable to obtain.

During the finance committee hearings on Bill C-377, we heard from witnesses who spoke about Merit Canada. Merit has had dozens of meetings on this bill with the sponsor and with the Prime Minister's office officials. At committee, when they were before us, the carpenters were there talking at the same time as Merit. They were testifying.

Mr. Speaker, were you speaking to me?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

No, the hon. member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek has the floor.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Representatives for the Merit group and the Carpenters union were in the room. I asked the representative for the Carpenters union: “If Bill C-377 passes, would Merit Canada see a financial gain?” Of course, he said “yes” and went on to speak about it.

Clearly, the Merit group is a competitor to the building trades and, in particular, to carpenters and electricians. It would be competing for the same jobs, seeking to employ its workers as the union would be seeking to employ theirs. However, the Merit group would know the bid structure that the unions were working from. Where do we ever see that in the business community?

We hear talk about big labour bosses in this place. I am not quite that big, but I am getting there. I signed my first union card at 14 years of age in 1961. I was a member of the CBRT&GW and later with the communications workers. I was vice-president and president, both terms of six years. I was an executive member of the Hamilton and District Labour Council for 28 years and president for 14 years.

[An hon. member]

And all elected.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Yes, as a friend was saying, all elected and repeatedly elected.

However, I had close to 20 years as a rank and file member previous to that. I attended monthly union meetings where I reviewed line by line and then voted on our monthly financial statements. The trade union taught me one important lesson, which may be why Bill C-377 is before us here today, and that was to question authority.

In the 1980s and 1990s there were two leaders fighting for justice and equality and questioning authority. Nelson Mandela was first supported by the Canadian labour movement when it was not acceptable in society. Then there was Lech Walesa, a trade union organizer, human rights activist and co-founder of Solidarity, the union. That was the union believed by many to have started the downfall of the Soviet Union. Both Mandela and Walesa were feted and honoured in Canada by our federal government.

To my Conservative colleagues, I want to share some information about union operations they may not know. Please take a moment and listen. In fact, I doubt if many members of the Conservative Party have ever set foot in a union hall, union meeting or a union convention. Therefore, I will try to inform them as to why Bill C-377, in my opinion, is not needed.

I spoke of my early years as a rank and file member, but later, around 1979, I became vice-president of my local union at Bell Canada for communications workers and then president. In those positions, I was responsible for ensuring that the treasurer's reports were complete and available to our members each month.

As an officer and a delegate, I attended union conventions, political Federation of Labour conventions and Canadian Labour Congress conventions, where we received and voted on audited financial statements, approved future workplace information campaigns, and also campaigns to inform the general public of the labour movement's views on municipal, provincial and federal governments. For 14 years as president of the Hamilton and District Labour Council, we also produced monthly financial statements and yearly audited statements for our delegates. Therefore, if this is the case, why is Bill C-377 before us?

Bill C-377 is intended as an attack weapon against unions that do not share the Conservative government's political view. In other words, unions question the authority of the government, which is one thing the Conservative government has a great deal of difficulty with.

Unions have stood up against the policies of all three major political parties at one time or another, including the NDP. Therefore, as Walesa and Mandela did, unions continue to stand up for their members and in doing so stand up for the broader community. The last I heard, this is how our democracy is supposed to work.

Bill C-377, in my opinion, from the very first has been a flawed piece of unnecessary discriminatory legislation designed solely to impede legitimate member-approved union activities that call into question the actions of the Conservative government. Any union member who says that they do not know the functions of their union has not been attending their monthly union meetings where they are debated and voted upon.

We are in favour of transparency, but it must be applied fairly to the organizations that should be targeted and must not cause harm. The bill violates the rights of association, privacy and freedom of expression. The privacy commissioner agrees with that statement, by the way.

The bill is an ideological attack on labour organizations, and it is interesting, because it uses the words “transparency” and “fiscal responsibility” to mask its real objectives.

It would be a costly bill. It would cost millions of dollars to put into place and to establish the databases, which will cost at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars a year, going forward. The estimates that came before the finance committee were based upon 1,000 organizations. More than 25,000 would be covered by this in the labour movement of Canada. This is a huge burden for both government and workers. The purpose would lessen the vitality of those organizations to defend the rights of workers. Imagine what would happen if there were an additional 17 million hours of paperwork foisted on to business, like it would be foisted on to labour?

Bill C-377 would also give confidential information to businesses and government, which would give them unfair, competitive advantages and political advantages over the labour movement.

Why does the bill target only labour organizations and not all organizations? There are other organizations in the country that receive the benefits of tax breaks and, further, they receive them from the government. In fact, the government promotes many of them. Is this not discriminatory? Are the Conservatives comfortable spending millions of dollars for the records of unions' financial transactions during this period of fiscal restraint? Are they comfortable disclosing so much private and personal information on Canadians?

I realize I am getting close to the end of my time, but we have a bill to deal with an issue that nobody was complaining about, except the government. The Conservatives decided that they lost an election in Ontario because of the labour movement, and this is the end result. This is the reality of what it is all about.

There is another minor point: double taxation, and it is double taxation exactly. It would cost the taxpayer to institute Bill C-377 in the government. However, it would also cost the same taxpayer who happens to be a union member because 4,300,000 would have their union dues raised by the Conservatives. Is that not a first. They would have to pay for it. How do we think it would get done?

Now there will be Conservative union dues for the union workers in the country, and I am sure they will send letters of thanks to the government.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to put my 2¢ worth in on this very much flawed legislation.

Before we get started, Canadians live in a great and very privileged country. I think we need an opportunity sometimes to reflect on that, and the bill should give us the opportunity to do that. Many of the things we enjoy as Canadians and many of the things we take for granted right now, were won on the fact that workers banded together and formed a common front to earn benefits, to earn decent wages, to fight for pensions, to fight for health benefits.

Unions and organized labour in the country and really, in the free world, have created a middle class. Is there anybody in the House who is not concerned about the inequality of income in the country now, where we see the rich getting richer and those who are experiencing hardship, the poor, are getting poorer? It is a fact.

With an attack on the middle class, unions first and then the middle class, we will see a downward pressure on wages. We will see an attack on benefits. I do not see where that would benefit anybody. It certainly will not benefit the workers of our country. Let us ensure we do not take that for granted.

The bill was flawed from the outset. At first it would charge $1 million a day for a union that did not comply, but the Conservatives had to pull that back. It has been a travesty since the first day.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, Delta—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe that the member opposite was deemed to have spoken as of Friday, as motions were moved at that time. He was deemed to have spoken then. The comments he is making now are out of order.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I appreciate the hon. member's intervention. We will check the record to be sure. We are at report stage of the bill. We will stop the clock momentarily to make sure.

I am informed that the hon. member for Cape Breton—Canso is one of the sponsors of the motions before the House and has not yet spoken on the motion in this case. The hon. member for Cape Breton--Canso has the floor.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is one thing those members like to do: If they can silence an opposition voice, they like to silence it. How noble it is to silence any opposing voice, and we have seen that time and time again.

I want to direct this at the fiscal Conservatives over there. That is the background of the member for New Brunswick Southwest. Let us talk about the cost of the bill because—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Order. We have a point of clarification here. Just to be clear, at the time the motions were moved the hon. member for Cape Breton—Canso had the opportunity to speak to the motion and declined to do so at the time. What the Standing Orders indicate at that point is that the member has in fact been deemed to have spoken to the motion. The hon. member for Cape Breton—Canso has spoken to the motion. He is deemed to have spoken to the motion at report stage.

I will hear the hon. member briefly.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I think if you seek it, Mr. Speaker, you will find unanimous consent to—