Debates of March 19th, 2013

Response to the Supreme Court of Canada Decision in R. v. Tse Act

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech.

Since he is a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, I would like to ask him a question about how the government has proceeded with other bills, including Bill C-30, for example.

How has the government proceeded and what could be done to improve this aspect? The opposition has proposed concrete solutions. I wonder if my colleague could talk about what this government could do better.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I like the correction. The government could do so much better. It could not do any worse than what it is currently doing.

Instead of systematically rejecting any amendments or proposals made by key witnesses, the government should work with the opposition to improve these famous bills, like it did, as though with a knife to its throat, for Bill C-55.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to my hon. colleague, and what struck me was the fact that within Parliament it is the role of parliamentarians of all parties to work toward the development of good legislation and legislation that will stand a test in the courts.

Unfortunately, the government has time and time again ignored input from the other parties and also tried to defy the courts. With Bill C-30, the Conservatives were completely slapped back because it was such an intrusive, invasive attack on the basic civil liberties of law-abiding Canadians. We see with Bill C-55 that the Conservatives have gone for a much narrower range in terms of legislation that would actually pass the charter test.

Does my hon. colleague not think that the Conservatives would have been wiser, and may be wiser in future, if they actually learned the lesson that at the end of the day they are not supreme in this land, that it is still the Supreme Court, that they still have to work with other organizations and other parties to ensure that legislation would be to the benefit of all and not just for their attack ads?

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, not only in the House of Commons but also in committee, the government would do well to work with the opposition in order to improve legislation. My hon. colleague from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek said that about 30 time allocation motions have been imposed. This really undermines democracy. Committee meetings are being held in camera, and witnesses and amendments are being systematically rejected. This will not serve to improve bills.

I hope the members opposite will listen to the truth.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Brome—Missisquoi for his speech.

I would like to ask him a very simple question. I know that he has a legal background and training, and I believe he is still a member of the Barreau du Québec. I would like to know why it is important that laws presented to Parliament comply with the charter and that they first pass the test of the justice department's officials.

Why is it important for parliamentarians to be assured that the legislation they debate respects the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, in view of the fact that Bill C-30 was introduced in the House and that Bill C-55 is the response to an unconstitutional provision of an existing law, namely section 184.4 of the Criminal Code?

Why is it important for our laws to respect the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms? That is my question for my colleague.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Sherbrooke for his excellent question.

I would say that it is a basic function of the law to ensure that a bill respects the charter and the Constitution. My colleague from Gatineau spoke about access to justice. Not everyone can go all the way to the Supreme Court. It is also a question of time and money.

Whenever possible, we must ensure that the laws passed by Parliament are adequate and meet the constitutionality test. In our society we have the rule of law and it is important to respect that.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

I am surprised, even flabbergasted, to be rising today in the House to support an intelligent piece of legislation from this government. I never thought that this day would come in my lifetime.

To date, everything that I have seen from this government has been so shoddy and botched that I certainly did not expect such a bill to ever see the light of day. Perhaps pressure from the Supreme Court has forced the Conservatives to introduce this legislation.

In supporting this bill, however, we want to prove that we are not blind partisans. Even after being insulted on virtually a daily basis for the better part of a year and being associated with wrongdoers, pedophiles, terrorists and all manner of criminals, we have understood one thing, because we think things through and use our good judgment: this is an extremely important issue. Indeed, an entire part of the legislation needs to be reviewed and circumscribed so that rights are upheld. It would be a disaster if nothing were done.

The Conservatives can count themselves lucky that we are not blind partisans. At any rate, they would pass the bill regardless. They do what they want. The fact is, however, that what needs to be in the bill is there. The use of section 184.4 is limited.

I get the sense that all the Conservatives came here with a misguided view of power. They thought that they could do whatever they wanted because they had a majority. The Supreme Court has just reminded them that laws must be obeyed and that there is a Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that is replete with requirements. I hope that the Conservatives will learn from this experience and that they will think things through a bit better in the future.

In a democracy, parliamentarians must be given the opportunity to express themselves, and their opinions must be taken into account, as must those of witnesses who appear in committee. That is democracy in action. By going about things in a partisan and obtuse manner and by acting as they see fit, rejecting everything that they themselves have not put forward, the Conservatives are doing a disservice to society.

Each and every time that—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. The hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake is rising on a point of order.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, we are debating third reading of Bill C-55. I have been listening quite intently to the member and to the opposition members speaking before him, and their comments have not been relevant to the issue at hand.

I would remind you, Mr. Speaker, that O'Brien and Bosc, chapter 13, page 626, states:

Debate on third reading is intended to permit the House to review the legislative measure in its final form and is therefore strictly limited to the contents of the bill.

I would also like to remind you, Mr. Speaker, that also in chapter 13, “Rules of Order and Decorum”, on page 623 under “The Rule of Relevance”, it says in a ruling made back in 1882, J.G. Bourinot, then Clerk of the House, felt the need to add this comment to his overview of parliamentary practice. It states:

A just regard to the privileges and dignity of Parliament demands that its time should not be wasted in idle and fruitless discussion; and consequently every member, who addresses the house, should endeavour to confine himself as closely as possible to the question under consideration.

Only once have I heard the member from across the way mention the amendment to section 184.4, which we are debating and for which the government has brought forward a bill in accordance with a Supreme Court ruling. I ask that he get down to the discussion at hand rather than editorialize.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The Chair appreciates the intervention from the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake and once again reminds all hon. members in this place that given that there is a matter before the House, speeches, questions and comments should be related to that. Having said that, it is also the practice of this place that a significant amount of latitude is offered to members. Secondly, from time to time, hon. members seem to take a circuitous route to their point. However, the Chair trusts that there is a point.

Specifically regarding the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake's reference to the rules related to third reading as distinct from other matters that may be before the House, I would again thank him for his intervention and hope that it might serve as a reminder to all of us that when we are speaking in the House, we should be dealing with the matter at hand.

We are today dealing with Bill C-55 at third reading. I trust that the hon. member for Laurentides—Labelle will proceed in that fashion.

The hon. member for Laurentides—Labelle.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today we are voting, at the last minute, on a bill that addresses a problem that should have been resolved months ago. I was attempting to put things in context.

I must say that I am proud, today, to support the bill. A lot of work has gone into it, and it will have a positive impact on Canadians. I simply wanted to stress the fact that it is not the result of happenstance. The reason we are here today, and the reason that the Conservatives have done their job, is because of all of our criticism over many months regarding the previous bill, which was botched and did not stand up to scrutiny.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened very carefully to my colleague. I would also like to correct what my colleague opposite said. My colleague has always talked about the process the bill had to go through to get here, about the reason why we have reached third reading of that bill and about the fact that the government took so long. I very much respect your decision, Mr. Speaker.

I have a question for my colleague. Before Bill C-55 got here, the government spent a great deal of time drafting Bill C-30 and demonizing all those who opposed that bill.

The Conservatives subsequently admitted their mistake, reversed course and drafted Bill C-55 at the last minute. That bill is nevertheless a step in the right direction, since it is consistent with what the Supreme Court requested. I would like my colleague to comment on the process the government used to table Bill C-30.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it was quite a simple matter. It was not a very complex bill. The problem could have been solved quickly if it had been properly studied in committee. The proof of that is that the bill emerged very quickly and efficiently from the process. I do not see why they were unable to act six or eight months ago. Demagoguery means something.

As Voltaire would say, those who can make you believe stupidities can make you commit atrocities. That is their principle.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, again under Standing Order No. 18, it is clear that we are not supposed to be using unparliamentary language. He has just accused our side of being stupid.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Once again, the Chair appreciates the intervention of the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake and would remind all hon. members that there are practices and precedents surrounding unparliamentary language. There are some grey areas, but there are some areas that are quite clear.

The English translation of stupid is clearly not parliamentary language in this place.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that must be a translation problem, because I would point out that I never called anyone stupid. I was speaking instead about people who tried to make us believe stupidities. It is possible for someone very intelligent to try to convince us of something that is not. That is very different.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my colleague from Laurentides—Labelle: I believe there was a translation problem.

However, the people in this House also need to be aware that a Conservative government minister is accusing the official opposition of siding with pedophiles. I am not sure that is parliamentary language either.

I would also like to hear my colleague from Laurentides—Labelle talk about the Conservative government's wish to invade people's lives through Bill C-30, which was fortunately scrapped because it ran entirely counter to Canadian and Quebec values and to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Conservatives are doing the same thing with Bill C-377, under which they would compel labour organizations to provide information concerning them.

What does my colleague have to say about the Conservative government's desire to invade people's privacy?

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, clearly Bill C-30 was a nightmare for people. People were wondering who the bill could have targeted. In truth, just about anyone could have been targeted, from political opponents to environmentalists.

When someone acquires a weapon, usually they have a potential victim or target in mind. When such a destructive weapon is acquired, there is good reason to be worried about who the potential target might be.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleagues for their moral support. I hope that my comments on Bill C-55 will stay on point. I would also have liked to hear my Conservative colleagues speak out about this important bill that their government has brought forward. Their silence today is deafening, aside from a few points of order that can be construed as attempts at badgering.

Fundamentally, the debate on Bill C-55 takes us back to the history of Bill C-30. Finally we have a Conservative government that has backed down and admitted the error of its ways, a government that has been forced to go back to the drawing board. This is not the first time the Conservative government has been taken to task, but it should happen more often. Unfortunately, we have a government that delights in improvising most of the time. It is guided by its ideology and completely blinded by certain libertarian or conservative principles, so much so that its actions are not guided by the facts, by science or by reality, but rather by personal views, as the justice minister pointed out.

Members may recall that Quebec’s justice minister had asked the federal justice minister some questions about a bill on minimum sentences for young offenders and in that instance, personal views had specifically come into play. In my opinion, Bill C-30 was also based on personal whims. It is a shame, really, because the privacy of our country’s citizens was threatened by the Conservative government, which adopted a very hostile attitude toward all those who dared call its bill into question.

Members may recall that the Conservative minister accused the opposition parties of siding with pedophiles simply because they criticized and opposed Bill C-30. Highly ideological stances like this adversely affect debate in Parliament as well as in our democracy.

It is important that I mention the employment insurance reform, which should have been based on impact studies illustrating the impact of the reform on a number of regions, on workers, and their families. It came to our attention that no impact studies were conducted. All’s well that ends well, however, when it comes to Bill C-30 because the bill was scrapped. This proves that when there is public outcry, and when people mobilize, the government can be forced to backtrack, even the Conservative government.

Let me come back to Bill C-55. It is fortunate that we still have courts in this country. It is fortunate that we have a Supreme Court of Canada to tell us which provisions need to be amended, because the Conservatives do not respect the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I said this in my previous remarks. I also know full well that the private member's bill, Bill C-377, which is a direct attack on unions and workers’ associations, also appears likely to end up in court.

It is good that the courts are reviewing these Conservative bills as they are probably unconstitutional, invade privacy and violate the right to organize. It is fortunate that we still have courts in our society that force the government to amend legislation that is unconstitutional so that it complies with section 8 of the charter, for example, which is the case currently with Bill C-55.

We need to remember that the reason the bill is before us today is because a judge determined at trial that section 184.4—which is the section that is being amended—violated the right, guaranteed under section 8 of the charter, to be protected against frisking, searches, abusive seizure, and that it is not a reasonable limit under the first section.

Today, the situation is being addressed and our legislation is being amended to ensure that it is consistent with our values and principles as a society, which not only seeks to ensure the safety of its citizens, but also to protect their privacy.

In this debate, it is important to remember what section 184.4 of the Criminal Code is about. It reads:

A peace officer may intercept, by means of any electro-magnetic, acoustic, mechanical or other device, a private communication where

(a) the peace officer believes on reasonable grounds that the urgency of the situation is such that an authorization could not, with reasonable diligence, be obtained under any other provision of this Part;

(b) the peace officer believes on reasonable grounds that such an interception is immediately necessary to prevent an unlawful act that would cause serious harm to any person or to property; and

(c) either the originator of the private communication or the person intended by the originator to receive it is the person who would perform the act that is likely to cause the harm or is the victim, or intended victim, of the harm.

It is important to know exactly what we are talking about but, for members of the NDP and most people of good faith, oversight and accountability mechanisms are also important. That is why the official opposition finds the provisions of section 195 and Bill C-55 acceptable; they give police officers less arbitrary power in certain situations.

In terms of public safety needs, we are aware that police officers must have these tools and access to them. However, such interception should not then be forgotten about. There must be follow up. That is why we are pleased to have these oversight mechanisms. We understand the concerns of those who were upset about the Conservative government's Bill C-30. This bill was a real attack on privacy given the authority it gave police to intrude on people's private lives.

We also must find a balance between the protection of privacy and the police forces' ability to do their work and maintain public safety. This balance has to exist even when the police are wiretapping and intercepting communications in order to protect the physical integrity of our constituents and prevent people from committing wrongdoings that could endanger the lives and safety of Quebeckers and Canadians.

It is all a balancing act. For once, we must admit that the bill before us is reasonable and balanced. I do want to reiterate that it was the court that twisted the government's arm and forced it to make changes. There is a deadline. Today we are debating this bill because we no longer have the choice. The court said that we had to resolve this issue by the beginning of April. We are lucky to even have this.

I would like to quote some testimony from committee. It demonstrates how the New Democratic Party feels. On March 6, 2013, Raji Mangat, the counsel for the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, said the following at the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights:

...the BCCLA [her organization] is pleased to see that Bill C-55 will limit the use of section 184.4 to police officers. This is in our view a sensible and necessary amendment that supports the rationale behind the provision, to provide a means by which law enforcement can prevent serious and imminent harm on an urgent basis.

On that note, the BCCLA is also pleased that Bill C-55 limits the application of warrantless wiretapping to circumstances in which the goal is to prevent the commission of an offence. The addition of a notice requirement to individuals who have been subjected to warrrantless wiretapping brings section 184.4 in line with other provisions in the Criminal Code. The notice requirement provides transparency and serves as an essential check on this extraordinary power to intercept communications without judicial authorization.

The reporting requirement in Bill C-55 is also a welcome amendment, as it will enhance police accountability. Together, the notice and reporting requirements bolster accountability and oversight in the use of warrantless wiretapping, and the BCCLA [her organization] supports amendments to gather more data.

If I may, I would like to digress and speak about safety, particularly the safety of people in Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie when it comes to the railways and pedestrian crosswalks. It is important to have measures that encourage active transportation so that people can safely cross the railways we have in Montreal. I support all the groups and elected officials who are lobbying for this. It is important for improving the quality of life of the people of Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, over the last couple of years as we have been debating Bill C-30, it has been very clear that Canadians right across the country had very serious concerns about the intent and the reflex of the government with respect to protecting Canadians' privacy while pursuing criminals in the most expedient way possible.

Essentially it has taken the Supreme Court to put the government's back up against the wall in order to table this legislation. I am wondering if my hon. colleague would like to comment on the general reflex of the government around privacy issues.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comment and his question.

In fact, he is absolutely right. The government says it wants a minimal state, to intervene as little as possible and let people do what they want. However, what it is doing is drafting bills that run completely counter to Conservative discourse and values. The government wants to be persnickety and impose more red tape and bureaucracy.

We saw this with Bill C-377, which also intrudes into the private lives of individuals. We saw it with Bill C-30, which gave the police forces a completely unlimited mandate so that they can go and see what people are doing, so that they can go into their computers and intrude into their private lives.

We know that there needs to be a balance between security and protection of private life. That is why the NDP supports the bill. However, the government is systematically going back on its promises and is even going against its own values and principles. Canadians are starting to realize this.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to congratulate my New Democrat colleague for his speech and in particular for his last intervention, in which he spoke about how Canadians wanted more public safety, whether in terms of safer pedestrian railway crossings or preventing criminals from killing them and their loved ones.

People are also very concerned about their personal freedom. Historically, there have been abuses in connection with a variety of conflicts and events around the world, including during the aftermath of 9/11, which was highly problematic.

Perhaps the member could reassure Canadians on whether a balance has been achieved between personal freedom and public safety in this bill?

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord for his excellent question.

We feel so strongly about principles like those contained in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that it is important to reiterate our belief in these values. It is unfortunate that it took a court order before our government was willing to ensure compliance with section 8 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Being willing to ensure that these principles and values are respected and never circumvented should have been a no-brainer. Unfortunately, there are already many examples of the Conservative government failing to understand their importance.

I would also like to thank the member for his comment about our belief in safety for people in general. I would like to comment again on the issue of pedestrian railway crossings. People sometimes have to make holes in the wire mesh to get through. This is certainly unsafe. There is a risk that they could be hit and they could also be fined if they are caught.

Montreal has been sliced in two. There is no flow. At a time when there is an emphasis on enabling people to walk or ride bicycles, the government has been totally inactive on pedestrian crossings in Montreal. The NDP will work together with everyone to ensure that something is done.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I rise to address Bill C-55. It is important right from the beginning to mention why we are debating the bill today. On April 13, 2012, the Supreme Court of Canada sent a very strong message to the House of Commons, in particular to the Prime Minister, that section 184.4 needed to be amended. It made a sunset by saying that the Government of Canada would have one year to pass the necessary legislation to validate the Criminal Code.

What is section 184.4? It talks about a police officer's ability to intercept a private conversation in some fashion without having to get a warrant. That is what this is all about. The government has been aware of it for a number of years. The Supreme Court of Canada having made its decision on April 13, 2012, and having put a time limit on it has now forced the government to act on it.

I will talk about the lack of the timely fashion in which the government has made the decision to bring in the bill. However, prior to doing that, I would like to reflect on what I believe is very important to all Canadians.

All Canadians believe in private rights and want to ensure their rights are protected. At times we might get a little spooked. We see cameras popping up all over the place, whether it is photo radar cameras, speed cameras, cameras at high density intersections, or even nowadays on sidewalks or public buildings and public areas where people gather. Every so often I hear from constituents who want to talk about private rights. It is important for us to recognize that as individuals we do have private rights that need to be protected at all times.

I was a very strong advocate for the Charter of Rights and Freedoms for many years. This year we celebrated 30 years of having the charter, which has stood the test of time. A vast majority, 90%-plus of Canadians, have grown to respect and believe in the charter as something that protects them.

I remember when my girlfriend, now my wife, and I watched the signing ceremony between Pierre Trudeau and the Queen in 1982. It was a special moment and it was something my girlfriend appreciated. It was important to me and I believe it was important to her. It is because we recognized how important it was that individuals had rights. That is why Bill C-55 is very important legislation.

I have had the opportunity to speak about it at second reading. Unfortunately, I was unable to be at committee, but I did to get to speak very briefly yesterday because we were limited to 10 minutes to the amendments brought forward. However, it is important legislation that needs to be addressed.

If we look at it from a historical point of view, whether it was Pierre Elliott Trudeau, or Jean Chrétien or one of Canada's best Attorneys General, the member for Mount Royal, it speaks so well on individual rights and the need to protect them. Quite often when individuals of that calibre stand and talk about individual rights, we need to listen because it is a very important aspect of being Canadian.

We turn on the news and we watch throughout the world where individual rights are virtually walked all over. There is a general lack of respect for individual rights throughout the world. I believe Canada has a leadership role in demonstrating to the world that we value the Charter of Rights.

A number of years ago I had the privilege and the opportunity to travel to Israel. When I met with one of the politicians there, he made reference to Canada's Charter of Rights and how he thought it was an important thing that Canada did in 1982. What we are doing here has an impact that goes beyond our own borders. That is why there is an onus and a responsibility for us to be very careful in behaving and acting on important legislation in a more timely manner.

Before going into some of the details of the bill, I will talk about why we have the bill. I made mention of the Supreme Court of Canada and also that the government knew about it well before that. The Supreme Court of Canada has in essence said to the government that it really has messed up. It did not have to go to the Supreme Court of Canada.

The Conservatives had an opportunity to deal with the issue previously. Many parliamentarians here today will recall Bill C-50. I was not here at that time. That bill was an attempt to deal with what the Supreme Court of Canada was forced to deal with, but because the Conservatives prorogued the session, in essence killing all legislation before the House, that attempt was defeated.

That was not the first or second time. The most recent time would have been Bill C-30 from last year. That bill came with a great deal of fanfare. A lot of allegations were made and the overwhelming reaction was quite significant, to the degree that we saw the Government of Canada push the hold button, and that bill has never seen the light of day.

The bill was introduced almost a year ago, and it would have dealt with this issue, at least in part. It also would have dealt with other things, which raised the ire of hundreds of thousands of Canadians and opposition parties, definitely the Liberal Party of Canada. However, we saw the Conservatives failing to address what was a very important issue, and I will comment on that issue very shortly. Instead of doing the right thing, which would have been recognizing that Bill C-30 was going nowhere back in June, the Conservatives could have introduced this bill last fall, in September or October, and reviewed some of the other legislation that we were talking about then.

There were opportunities for the government members to deal with this legislation. It is not like there is overwhelming opposition to Bill C-55. In fact, the members of the Liberal Party have been very clear that we support the passage of the bill. We have done nothing to slow down its passage. We recognize that the bill has to be passed through Parliament by April 12 or 13 of this year. We have committed to working to do that.

However, we also believe the legislation needs to go through due diligence and through the process in a timely fashion.

What does that mean? It means the government and, in particular, the government House leader. This is another wake-up call for him. He needs to get his legislative agenda in order. He needs to perhaps meet with the Prime Minister and some of his other ministers and get a sense in what kind of legislation is coming down the pike into the House of Commons. If he did his homework, then at the very least the legislation we have today could have been, and should have been, introduced back in October last year, give or take a month. Had the Conservatives done that, there would not be this sense of urgency we have today to pass the legislation.

That decision, many of my caucus colleagues would say, was intentional. The government continued to hold back on introducing this legislation. I cannot blame them for thinking that. All we have to do is take a look at all the legislation that has been brought forward and the record number of time allocations on a wide variety of legislation. Remember those huge budget bills containing dozens of pieces of legislation amended through the backdoor of a budget. We can understand why members of the Liberal Party are a little skeptical in how the government chooses to bring in legislation.

The timing is a very important issue.

We have Bill C-55 today. It is expected the bill will pass. As I say, it does have the support of the Liberal Party and we will assist the government allowing the bill, ultimately, to pass.

However, we ask the government to take responsibility when it brings forward legislation, to take into consideration that the House of Commons has a very important role to play. When it brings a bill in for second reading, members of Parliament of all political stripes are should be afforded the opportunity to provide their contributions, whatever they might be. Even if it is a sense of repetition speaker after speaker, it has to provide for that and then allow for it to go to committee in a timely fashion where we can bring in different stakeholders.

I would like to think that under Bill C-55, in a normal process, there might have been a higher level of interest from the different stakeholders from coast to coast to coast with respect to what type of legislation they wanted to see. That would have been very productive.

There was an attempt. It could be very discouraging to move amendments inside the House since there has been a Conservative majority, a different type of Conservative Reform Party going back to the old Reform roots, possibly. However, there has been a different attitude. Even I have detected that. It can be a challenge to move amendments inside the House. I have seen amendments stonewalled. I remember when the member for Mount Royal attempted to move amendments in committee and, ultimately, at third reading and the government turned them down. It took the Senate in order to pass it.

If Bill C-55 were provided the opportunity that it should have been in allowing for not only that fulsome debate within the chamber but equally an opportunity to have stakeholders from across Canada contribute to the debate, I believe we would have had more of a contribution at that point in time.

It is important to allow for that. We are talking about are private communications that can be interrupted or listened to by the police without any warrant. That is very serious. I think many Canadians could have made presentations if it was felt that we had the time to listen thoroughly to our stakeholders or even affording opposition parties or individual members to consult on the legislation in advance.

From committee, we come now to third reading. The bill has been here for a couple of days. We in the Liberal Party want to see the bill pass. I suspect that the New Democrats will support us. However, the timing is a huge concern.

The bill requires appropriate ministers in Canada to report whenever they have an intercept. That means that a minister of justice in a province, such as Manitoba, Ontario, or wherever it might be in Canada, would be notified when an interception occurred in their jurisdiction. Those provincial entities would then be obligated to report to the House of Commons, through the Minister of Public Safety, and ideally, to have it tabled it in some form in the House. It is a very important measure.

We would like to think that the frequency of any police agency having to use clause 184.4 without a warrant would be very low. There is nothing wrong with trying to find and accumulate information that allows us to make valued opinions regarding its usage. We should be reviewing that, because we are talking about individual rights.

Where a person's rights have been overlooked because it is believed that it is in the public interest, that individual has the right to know that a wiretap was done without a warrant. We are not saying that we should give a person a call to say that the telephone is going to be tapped. Once it has been done, there is an obligation to let that individual know that it has taken place. From what I understand, that is being done within this legislation.

The bill would provide more accountability and oversight. It would narrow the number of individuals or offices that could actually use clause 184.4. Today, one could be a mayor of a municipality and have the authority to listen to a private conversation without a warrant. The legislation is saying that this is too wide. We need to narrow the number of individuals who can do that. Bill C-55 narrows it down to police officers.

It also limits the types of interceptions. It should be used very rarely. For example, in a situation where someone's life is at risk or a child has been kidnapped, we need to ensure that police officers have the ability to save that life or ensure that a child is not molested. Bill C-55 moves in that direction.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I was intrigued by some of the member's comments, which is unusual. The member indicated that he believed in individual rights. I was astonished. Liberals do not tend to believe in individual rights; it is more collective rights.

I want to go down that path. He talked about the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but what he did not talk about was a very important change that occurred between the Bill of Rights and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It was property rights. It was eliminated by the Liberal Party. Now we see it extended to the point where, in the province of Ontario, for example, residents who are fighting fiercely to prevent wind turbines from being built on their doorsteps are finding that they have no property rights on which to stand. That is because the Liberal Party eliminated them. I wonder if the member would support reinserting property rights into the charter.