House of Commons Hansard #269 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cigarettes.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Public Safety confirm whether the RCMP's investigation into Nigel Wright falls under sections 119 and 121 of the Criminal Code for bribery and frauds on the government?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, of course, the RCMP is independent. The RCMP can speak to the RCMP's investigation, just as only the Liberal leader can speak to the Liberal senators. Indeed, Liberal Senator Mac Harb took $231,000.
I hear the leader of the Liberal Party say that he is not a Liberal senator. He was sure a Liberal when he stole the money. Again, if the leader of the Liberal Party believes in accountability and responsibility, perhaps he should answer this simple question: How much money does a Liberal senator have to steal before they are not welcome in the Liberal Party?
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, the fact remains that a $90,000 payment was made by the Prime Minister's chief of staff to a sitting legislator. According to that legislator, he was then ordered by the PMO not to co-operate with the Deloitte audit. The PM actually said that Nigel Wright made the payment while acting in his capacity as chief of staff.
Therefore, can the Minister of Public Safety confirm that the RCMP's investigation includes the Prime Minister's Office?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, again, as we have said, we do not direct the RCMP. The RCMP is independent and its members can answer whatever questions the member opposite has with regard to the nature in which they are approaching this very question.
Just as the Liberal Party can only answer the questions that taxpayers have about the money that was taken from them and given to their friends, the Liberal senators.
The very central question is $231,000 taken from taxpayers by Liberal Senator Mac Harb and the leader of the Liberal Party says, “As long as he pays the money, he is perfectly welcome to come back as a Liberal”. He stole the money and the Liberal leader should—
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, the Liberal leader said that he would welcome Mac Harb back with open arms if he paid back the money. Perhaps he should read the court decision on disgraced Senator Raymond Lavigne. The court found, “when Lavigne made false claims for a reimbursement of travel expenses of $10,120.50...he committed dishonest acts”. He was found guilty of fraud. Mac Harb, on the other hand, owes the taxpayers over $230,000.
What is the government doing to ensure that Liberal and Conservative senators who rip off the taxpayers pay the money back and are held accountable for breaking the laws of our country?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, it is an important question and those who break the law should be held accountable, which is why the RCMP is looking into the matter of Senate expenses. That is why the Auditor General is looking into this matter as well.
It is also why we, as a House, should be asking and getting serious answers from the NDP about why the NDP leader thinks he can flaunt the law, confront RCMP officers, ignore them when they try to pull him over and then not show up in the House of Commons to be accountable.
EthicsOral Questions
The Speaker Andrew Scheer
I want to remind the hon. Minister of Canadian Heritage that it is unparliamentary to point out the presence or absence of other members. I hope he keeps that in mind for the rest of the question period.
The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, speaking of stop signs, the RCMP has now confirmed that it is investigating the illegal cheque of $90,000 that was written in the Prime Minister's Office.
We now have the Prime Minister being investigated by the RCMP for an indictable offence that happened in his office.
I am sure the Conservative caucus might want to sing Lovely Rita Meter Maid all day, but what will it do about coming clean with Canadians about a potentially illegal and indictable offence that happened under the Prime Minister's watch?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, I am afraid that the leader of the Liberal Party beat the member to this very question, and I answered that.
If the member for Timmins—James Bay wants to live by that standard, perhaps he could answer this question. Is the leader of the NDP being investigated for running five stop signs? Is the leader of the NDP being investigated for not listening to an RCMP officer? Is the leader of the NDP, at some point, going to show up in the House and apologize to Canadians for breaking the law?
EthicsOral Questions
The Speaker Andrew Scheer
The minister has to be very careful about pointing up the presence and absence of members. It is the second time. He should be very careful.
The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, it takes a lot of nerve for the Minister of Canadian Heritage to say such things in the House when it was the Conservative Party that paid a fine for its in and out scheme, that was implicated in telephone calls to keep people from voting and that has senators mired in a scandal over false expense claims. We just learned that the RCMP believes there are grounds to launch a criminal investigation into the $90,000 cheque that the Prime Minister's former chief of staff gave to Mike Duffy.
Will the Conservatives obey the law? Will they be up front with Canadians and Quebeckers? Can they show us that it was a personal cheque or tell us what really happened in the Prime Minister's Office, before the RCMP get involved?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, we have already answered these questions very clearly: it was a personal cheque. We do not have access to a personal cheque from one individual to another. This is an independent process, and the RCMP is independent of the government. It will certainly look into this matter, and it will have access to any documents it requires.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, one thing is certain: the noose is tightening around the Prime Minister.
That said, the Conservatives have quite the logic. Nigel Wright was too crooked to stay in the PMO, so he was shown the door, yet, at the same time, the Conservatives are ready to take him at his word. What would be even better is if someone who saw this infamous cheque were to rise in the House and finally put these questions to rest.
It seems to me it would not be too hard for the Prime Minister to pick up the telephone, call his former right-hand man and ask him to make a copy of the cheque because it is needed for business in the House.
Has the Prime Minister done that, or will he do it? Will he do the right thing?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, as I just said, an independent process is under way, and the RCMP will look into the matter and examine all of the relevant documents.
However, this is a very interesting day for the New Democrats to ask the government to respect the RCMP. It is not the Conservative leader who behaves that way on Parliament Hill. It is not the Conservative leader who behaves that way when he drives. It is not the NDP leader who should lecture anybody about respecting the decency of the RCMP.
Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Mr. Speaker, the expense scandal is so fascinating that it deserves its own Heritage Minute.
At first the Conservatives told us how honourable Nigel Wright was and said he saved taxpayers money. That was before they changed their minds and admitted that what he did was wrong.
We are talking about a man who masterminded an attempt to cover up a scandal using a secret cheque and his position as the Prime Minister's chief of staff. They are saying that Nigel Wright, who supposedly went behind their backs, wrote a personal cheque.
How can they be so sure, since no one has seen the cheque?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, that is the same question. For the fourth time, here is the same answer.
As I told her colleague, an investigation is under way and the RCMP will have access to all the information and documents it needs. The government did not have access to a personal cheque written by Mr. Wright.
The process will continue and we will respect it. Thank you.
Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Mr. Speaker, these excuses do not pass muster. Enough is enough. People want answers.
When I say “answers”, I am talking about real, clear, honest answers. Canadians are fed up with this string of scandals. This is as bad as the 1990s. I hope the Conservatives do not think that all these scandals will just magically disappear over the summer. People want answers.
Has the RCMP contacted the Prime Minister's Office regarding the $90,000 cheque?
James Moore ConservativeMinister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages
Mr. Speaker, the RCMP is conducting an independent investigation and can certainly answer those questions. We have been very clear from the beginning: the RCMP will of course have access to all the information and documents it needs to do its job.
The NDP leader should show us how he plans to respect the RCMP. Clearly, he failed to do so earlier today on Parliament Hill.
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Speaker, while the Conservatives avoid answering questions, the Minister of State for Democratic Reform avoids doing his job.
On Tuesday, April 16, 2013, which was 58 days ago, the Minister of State for Democratic Reform said, “our government is pleased to announce that it will introduce comprehensive legislation on Thursday”.
Could he tell us which Thursday he was referring to?
Tim Uppal ConservativeMinister of State (Democratic Reform)
Mr. Speaker, we have already committed that we would bring forward legislation to change our election laws. However, the real question is this. Will the New Democrats actually follow those laws? We know today that the leader of the NDP blew by stop signs and did not stop for the RCMP. Also, the NDP accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars in illegal union donations.
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, the New Democrats have tried in vain to get answers from the minister about when he will table the amendments to the Elections Act. More and more it seems like he does not even know what is happening with his own bill. However, it is his bill, so surely he must want to know where it is.
I hear on good authority that the bill was actually hijacked by the gang in the PMO. What has the minister done to track down his missing bill and when will he share it with Canadians?
Tim Uppal ConservativeMinister of State (Democratic Reform)
Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, we take election reforms very seriously and that is why we are ensuring that we take the time to get it right. There are reports that need to be considered, including recommendations by the Chief Electoral Officer and recommendations by the procedure and House affairs committee. We committed to introducing legislation and we will introduce that legislation.
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Mr. Speaker, it was the culture of secrecy that allowed corruption to flourish under the Liberal years, but the Conservatives are so obsessed with secrecy, they are even trying to sabotage the selection committee to replace the parliamentary budget officer. They have assigned their chief henchman to the government House leader to ensure they wind up with a lapdog instead of a watchdog.
I argue that Kevin Page was about the best friend the Canadian taxpayers ever had. Canadians have a right to know what their government is doing with their money. Why are the Conservatives so fundamentally afraid of having a truly independent parliamentary budget officer?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, the process that is being used to appoint a new parliamentary budget officer is one that completely follows and respects the law. We are looking forward to the time when the NDP actually demonstrates a similar interest in respecting and following the law.