House of Commons Hansard #82 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was transport.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, two-thirds of Canadians get mail delivered to their door. They will lose that service if we agree to the Conservative government's measures.
The minister did not answer my question. Where will these community mailboxes be located in major urban centres? Nobody knows.
Does Canada Post plan to expropriate municipalities to acquire the public space it needs to install these huge, hideous boxes?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, Canada Post has indicated that it will work with the communities with respect to the siting of these mailboxes.
Regardless of what the hon. member says about their esthetic value, the fact remains that they will have delivery of mail in those new mailboxes.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, 58 Canadian municipalities, including the largest ones, have passed resolutions opposing Canada Post's service cuts. We would like to know what the minister will do to ensure people's safety, particularly with respect to identity theft, with huge community mailboxes in big cities such as Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto.
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, Canada Post has indicated that it is vital for it to convert to community mailboxes in order to shore up against the loss of letter mail it has been experiencing.
As a result, it has undergone a consultation process in 46 communities across Canada. It has answered those questions to those communities with respect to the concerns that the hon. member raises.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, more municipalities oppose the Canada Post cuts than were consulted by Canada Post. That is pretty unbelievable.
According to a study by the Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association, 1,500 rural postal outlets have disappeared in the past 30 years. In most provinces, when a town loses its postal outlet, people have to drive between 12 and 13 kilometres to get to one. Does that make sense for people who do not have a car? People who live in rural areas are furious.
Why cut their services yet again by reducing business hours and the number of outlets that provide services?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, there are a number of items in there that I would like to correct. It is not just a very simple correction that is needed.
First, with respect to Canada Post's five-point action plan that it has embarked on, it has consulted across the country. Canadians have said that they want a postal system they can count on to meet their changing needs, but they also expect it to avoid becoming a drain on their tax dollars.
With respect to the year in review and the service levels that have been achieved by Canada Post, I think it is also important to note that this is the government that put in place the charter that was going to be used in order to measure the ability of Canada Post to respond to what Canadians want and need.
The charter standard was met as follows: 98.8% of Canadian population live within 15 kilometres of a postal outlet; 90.7% live within 5 kilometres; 79.3% live within 2.5 kilometres.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, unfortunately, the Conservatives have abandoned the rural communities that rely on these postal outlets. The outlets were not only part of the community's economic development, but also of their identity. They were a meeting place for the people in the village.
For four years, Canada Post looked at options with regard to banking services at Canada Post. The report remained secret. A journalist finally obtained the document and what we find in it is completely ridiculous: 701 out of the 811 pages were deleted or redacted.
This is the business model they propose: blank pages. These are the business models for postal services. These are the findings. The entire document is full of pages like that.
I would like to know whether the minister intends to make the report public. It seems the report finds in favour of having banking services at Canada Post outlets. Why keep that a secret? Why can we not access the information?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, in coming to developing their five-point plan, this is what Canada Post has said:
Our challenge was to put forward a plan that balances the needs of all Canadians, while addressing the legacy costs of a system built mainly to process and deliver a large volume of mail. [...]It's the result of two years of analyzing all options, including those at post offices around the world, to determine what would work best for Canadians. We're streamlining our operations, addressing the cost of labour, adjusting our pricing to better reflect today's environment, expanding convenience through franchise post offices and moving the remaining five million door-to-door customers to community mailbox delivery.
That is Canada Post's plan and that is what we stand by.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, it is hard for us to know what the best service would be for Canada Post when the government refuses to give us information on their serious study.
Can the minister tell us whether or not Canada Post has ever offered banking services in this country?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, Canada Post used to offer postal banking services, as the hon. member knows, until approximately 1967.
We have excellent banking facilities in this country and they are institutes to be proud of around the world. As a result, they are in there.
Primarily, we should also remember one other thing. The world of banking is moving to electronic banking as well, which is exactly the problem we are facing with respect to letter mail.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, how many Canadians do not have a bank account?
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, 900,000 Canadians do not have bank accounts. Canada Post has 6,400 postal outlets. These people would be able to get banking services rather than cashing their cheques at Insta-Cheques, which takes a large portion of their money.
I would like to know whether the Post Office Savings Bank Regulations are still part of Canadian legislation.
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, Canada Post is an independent crown corporation. It has determined its best path forward. For two years, it has analyzed and looked at all of the options, including postal banking, and it has determined that that is not the path forward for the Canadian solution. Therefore, we accept its advice.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, we accept their advice, but we have no idea what their argument is because they have not revealed anything about their study on banking services.
In most industrialized countries, including the United Kingdom, France, Switzerland, Italy and Japan, postal outlets offer banking services. Even New Zealand created the Kiwibank in 2002 and it now generates 70% of New Zealand's postal service profits.
Why would we be unable to do it when the rest of the world can? Are we not as smart as other countries?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, obviously that is not the case. The case is this: Canada Post has reviewed all of the options in the report and it has adopted this five-point plan, and that is the one that we are supporting as government.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, the Conservative government is therefore supporting Canada Post's plan without providing us with any evidence, any argument or any study to show us why we would not be able to offer banking services, when that is the route most OECD countries are taking.
According to a discussion paper of the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs, banking revenues in many countries are actually essential to generate profits from their postal networks.
Are the Conservative government and Canada Post refusing to offer banking services at Canada Post outlets because they want to kill the public service that is Canada Post?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, that is absolutely false.
Canada Post has had a long and proud history of serving Canadians. This government is standing by Canada Post in its journey toward ensuring that it returns to self-sufficiency and is not a drain on taxpayers.
It was this government that put in place performance standards for Canada Post and it is this government that has been holding the line on a rural moratorium.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, which municipalities will be the next to be affected by cuts to home delivery?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, all addresses in urban, rural, and remote locations that currently have door-to-door service, five million of them, will be moved to community mailboxes.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, Canada Post is a crown corporation. It could therefore take advantage of others' expertise to be able to offer basic banking services that would work, that would generate income and that would likely generate higher profits for Canada Post. For example, we have the Bank of Canada, the Business Development Bank of Canada, Farm Credit Canada, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, Export Development Canada and the Canada savings bond program.
Why not do something that works elsewhere in the world and that the government stubbornly refuses to try?
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, Canada Post has developed its plan to move forward as a result of the loss of letter mail that we have been seeing as a result of modernization in our world, the move to the digital era.
As well, Canada Post has indicated that its five-point plan is the best mix for a Canadian solution and we encourage it in the development and the continuation of implementing this plan.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Chair, I will move on to rail safety and the tragedy in Lac-Mégantic. I would like the minister to tell us how much the municipality of Lac-Mégantic had to pay to clean up its downtown, since insurance could not pay and the rail company refused to do so.
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, there are two things on that. With respect to the insurance that was available, our government took strong action with respect to that; and had indicated in the Speech from the Throne that, going forward, we expect that the polluter will pay. It is very unfortunate that there was not enough insurance in this case, but as the Prime Minister indicated at the time, he stands with the people of Lac-Mégantic and he will be supporting them.
The Assistant Deputy Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Resuming debate, the hon. Minister of Transport.