Debates of June 10th, 2015

Ethics

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, we must not forget that the expense audit does not include the senators who repaid their fraudulent expenses before June 2013.

Another person appointed by the Prime Minister, Carolyn Stewart Olsen, who was involved in the attempts to cover up the Mike Duffy scandal, said that she repaid her fraudulent expenses in order to escape the audit and avoid getting caught.

How many other senators appointed by the Prime Minister used this scheme to cover up and conceal their fraudulent expenses before the audit even started?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we trust the work of the Auditor General. He presented a number of recommendations. We hope, and of course insist, that all of the senators follow the process and work with the Auditor General.

Again, the Leader of the Opposition seems to think that Canadians look at things differently when there are 68 members of the NDP caucus who were identified for misusing $2.7 million of taxpayer resources. The Leader of the Opposition himself sits in this place owing the taxpayers $400,000 as part of a $2.7 million scheme that the New Democrats all owe the taxpayers. They should do the right thing and pay it back.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is going to meet the Pope at the Vatican tomorrow. Will he ask Pope Francis to apologize for the church's involvement in the horrors of residential schools?

The Prime Minister is scheduled to meet His Holiness the Pope at the Vatican tomorrow. Will the Prime Minister ask Pope Francis to apologize on behalf of the church for its involvement in the horrors of residential schools?

[Bernard Valcourt, Conservative, Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, we want to thank all of the survivors for their courage and for sharing their experiences with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada and all Canadians.

When the Prime Minister made a historic apology on behalf of all Canadians in 2008, the government recognized that the policy of assimilation and residential schools caused great harm and that the schools had no place in Canada. I have personally written to the provinces, the territories, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the Vatican to inform them of the commission's report and recommendations.

The Senate

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Senate needs real change. The current government has offered none. The Prime Minister instead appointed 57 senators who take orders from him. His ministers caucused with them this morning.

Duffy. Wallin. Brazeau. How can ministers in the government defend their Prime Minister's status quo decade of patronage appointments?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as members know, we have brought forward a number of recommendations with respect to reforming the Senate. The Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has suggested that unanimity is required from all of the provinces.

The Liberal Party's position on this makes no sense whatsoever. The Liberal leader wants to appoint Liberals who would then appoint non-partisan people to fill the Senate, so it would be unelected Liberals appointing unelected Liberals to sit in the Senate. That is the Liberals' idea of reform. That is not what Canadians want.

We are fighting to bring accountability to the Senate. We have made a lot of progress. We welcome the Auditor General's report.

We will continue to focus on jobs and economic growth.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has been promising to reform the Senate for over 10 years now, but he chose to appoint 57 senators. The Leader of the Opposition also makes a lot of promises, but the fact is that he wants to lead Canada back into a constitutional saga.

The Senate needs real change. Only the Liberal Party has a plan to make that happen.

Why is this government refusing to take action and bring real change to the Senate?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians waited and waited and waited, and the leader of the Liberal Party came forward with his plan. His plan was to not call his senators Liberals any more but to call them Senate Liberals. They have been alleviated of the responsibility of attending the weekly caucus meeting with the Liberals—I know there are a lot of people who would welcome that—but they still call themselves Liberals, they fundraise for the Liberal Party, and they campaign for the Liberal Party.

His idea of reform is to have an unelected group of Liberals appointing an unelected group of Liberal senators. We can do better, and we will.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, removing senators from his caucus is something the Prime Minister could do today. Ending partisan appointments to the Senate is something the Prime Minister could do today. That is what real change would actually look like.

After a decade, Canadians do not want excuses. They want to know why Conservatives have done nothing for real, meaningful Senate reform.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have waited and waited and waited, and that member comes here with a policy of unelected Liberals nominating unelected Liberal senators. His great policy is to not call them Liberals but to call them Senate Liberals.

On top of his other great economic policy of legalizing marijuana, the great Liberals have come up with great policies: tax Canadians more, take away the universal child care benefit, and increase mandatory pension contributions. Tax more, spend more, change the name of the party; anything to try to get re-elected.

That member is in way over his head. Canadians deserve better.

Ethics

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General's report stated oversight, accountability, and transparency of senators' expenses--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. We have to get back to order. The hon. member for London--Fanshawe now has the floor, and I would like to hear the question.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

They are so badly behaved, Mr. Speaker.

The Auditor General's report stated that oversight, accountability, and transparency of senators' expenses was quite simply not adequate. He said it is time for transformational change and independent oversight. The Prime Minister's hand-picked Senate Speaker disagreed with the Auditor General. He said senators can still handle their own oversight and defended using a secretive Senate committee.

Do Conservatives really think accountability means using secretive Senate committees and senators and MPs all policing themselves?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, that is not what the senators have suggested. They welcome the Auditor General's report and will look at implementing the recommendations.

The Auditor General found 30 senators with problems. House administration found 68 members of Parliament with problems with their expenses. They all happen to be NDP members of Parliament.

I do not know how that member can sit in the House and claim all kinds of things against senators, when she sits in a caucus of 68 members of Parliament who owe $2.7 million to Canadians, which they refuse to pay back. Her own leader owes $400,000. Help him repay that $400,000.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Still living in fantasy, Mr. Speaker.

The Conservatives once promised to fight for change in Ottawa. Now they fight to defend unelected and unaccountable senators. Just look at what they have become. Fifty-nine senators have been appointed by a Prime Minister who promised he would never appoint a single one. They use the Senate as a slush fund for party fundraising. The Prime Minister's Office was caught orchestrating a cover-up to help Mike Duffy.

Is this the reason Conservatives now oppose the Auditor General's call for independent oversight in the Senate?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

That is obviously completely wrong, Mr. Speaker. That is not at all what the Senate has suggested. The Senate welcomes the report of the Auditor General and is looking at implementing the recommendations.

At the same time, what the NDP does not seem to understand is that there is only one taxpayer. When they deliberately abuse their money, Canadians want it back, at the very least. The NDP owes $2.7 million to the people of Canada. The former NDP member for Montcalm owes $22,000. The member for Laval—Les Îles owes $31,874 and is refusing to pay that back. I hope those members will do the right thing and pay it back.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have a right to know how much the Prime Minister's Office knew about the Senate expense scandal. Senator Tkachuk was reimbursed for a trip that he and his wife took to attend the 50th wedding anniversary of another senator. The Speaker of the Senate was reimbursed for expenses related to organizing a Valentine's Day ball. I do not think that really falls within the scope of his official duties.

Does the Prime Minister agree with the Auditor General that the Senate needs an independent oversight body to keep an eye on its expenses? It is simple.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is up to the Senate. It is its responsibility to respond to the court. We welcome the recommendations of the Auditor General, and we already suggested yesterday in the House that we look forward to the Senate implementing the suggestions of the Auditor General.

However, this member can also help the taxpayers of Canada by repaying the $27,144 she owes the people of her riding as part of the $2.7 million scheme hatched by the Leader of the Opposition to defraud Canadians of the money they sent to this place.

Whether it is a senator or a member of Parliament, they owe them the money. Pay it back.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that someone, somewhere in the Prime Minister's Office saw those expenses and decided that the situation absolutely had to be covered up, because it was not right.

Senator Zimmer and his wife claimed over $100,000 in Senate expenses for personal travel, including over $2,000 in personal taxi fares. They enjoyed an open bar at taxpayers' expense. It is shameful.

Will the Prime Minister do the right thing, take charge and support the creation of an independent oversight body for the Senate once and for all?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that on a number of occasions. We welcome the report of the Auditor General. He has made a number of important recommendations, and we expect that the Senate will follow those recommendations.

At the same time, it is incumbent upon the NDP to do the right thing as well. There are some 68 members of that caucus who owe $2.7 million. The member for Compton—Stanstead owes $142,548 and is refusing to pay it back. The member for Toronto—Danforth funnelled money to an illegal office in Montreal for some reason. He spent $1,288.

They should all pay that back.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when he was a member of the opposition, the Prime Minister stated loud and clear that he would reform the Senate and clean house.

Once he came to power, he did exactly what the Liberals did. He appointed his cronies, who, according to the Auditor General, could not care less about wasting taxpayers' money: business class travel, fishing trips, golf games, hockey tickets, the list goes on. There is nothing too good for the upper class.

Senators have no qualms about making other people pay for their luxurious lifestyles. We propose abolishing the Senate. However, in the meantime, what are the Conservatives going to do to clean house?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, this is a member who owes the taxpayers $122,000, because he supported an illegal office in Montreal. We know that he knows how to write cheques. We know that because he wrote 29 separate cheques to the separatist party in Quebec.

He can do the right thing by saving one of those cheques and writing it for $122,000 to the Receiver General of Canada for his portion of the $2.7 million the NDP owes the taxpayer. I am not sure if the Receiver General takes a credit card or PayPal, but he should pay back all of the money he owes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is such a delight when the best attack one's adversary can dish out is nothing but a dud.

The Senate is just another broken and empty Conservative promise. The Senate is fraught with scandal, and the Conservatives' solution is to allow senators to self-inspect. This happens in other sectors too, and no one seems to have a problem with that. The Auditor General is calling for sweeping changes and an independent oversight body.

Did being drunk on power get the better of the Conservatives and their determination to clean up the Senate? I think so.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and for Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that on a number of occasions. The Auditor General made some important recommendations. We expect that the Senate will follow those recommendations, and it has indicated that it will do that.

At the same time, Canadians work very hard for the money they make and the money they send to this place and to the other place. When that money is deliberately abused, I am not going to stand up and defend that, nor should that member. He should work with the other 67 members of his caucus to repay the $2.7 million they owe instead of spending the entire summer squished into the defendant's box trying to argue with Canadians about why they refuse to pay it back. Pay back the money you owe.