Debates of Dec. 5th, 2016

Bill C-29—Time Allocation Motion

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am looking at the Liberals' website. This is the 2015 version of the Liberals, though, so maybe things have changed. Under the topic of openness, transparency, and fairness, they said on the site that the Conservative government had broken Canadians' trust and that the Liberals had a solution for this. One of the problems the Liberals had at the time was the use of this tactic that we're seeing them use here today. After just one hour, notice was given that debate would be shut off. The Liberals decried this in opposition and said it was no wonder that Canadians were ready for real change. The Liberals said that they were going to send resolutions to Ottawa that, in their words, would “make sure that Parliament is at a place where all Canadians can serve their country. A Liberal government will restore Parliament as a place where accountable people with real mandates do serious work”.

That was the 2015 version of the Liberal Party when its members were campaigning for the job. Now that they are doing the job, do they not find it so convenient to use the very same tactics they decried? After just one hour of debate, they gave notice that debate had to be shut down on the implementation of the budget, a significant, sweeping, and broad bill with many issues that members of Parliament would like to speak to. That is our job and why we are here. In saying this, I include the backbenchers from the Liberal Party of Canada who sit in those seats and pretend to speak on behalf of their constituents as well. Is that not what this job is? Is that not why we come together? Why do we hear no complaints from the Liberals in the backbench who say, “This is fine. We did not like it when Mr. Harper did it, but we like it when our guy does it. It is okay”.

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Oh, come on.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It is the same tactic regardless of the party stripe. It is time to be consistent for once and allow this place to do its job on behalf of all Canadians.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind the member for Cambridge that if he has something to say, he should get up during questions and comments and not yell it across the way.

The hon. Minister of Finance.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. Again, I ask the member for Cambridge to refrain from yelling out.

The hon. minister has the floor.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to be clear that this is not about tactics; this is about doing work for Canadians that we know needs to be done. This is about moving forward on consumer protection so that Canadians will be protected. This is about moving forward on tax fairness so that we will have a system that will work for all Canadians.

I want to repeat that including today and tomorrow, we will have had nine days of debate on Bill C-29. That has allowed more than 60 members of Parliament so far to participate in debate. Again, with nine days of debate, including today and tomorrow, that means we will have provided 20% of the available time for government business on this bill, and this bill alone. It is important that we move forward and make a measurable difference for Canadians. That is what we intend on doing.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I do appreciate what the Minister of Finance is saying. I would ask him this. When we talk about a budget implementation bill, we are talking about the budget in general. There are many things within this budget that Canadians will benefit from. We can talk about the Canada child benefit program, about the guaranteed income supplement, we can talk about the money spent on infrastructure.

When I hear concerns from the opposition benches with respect to time and time allocation, there have been many days, not only of actual debate, but on questions and answers. The minister made reference to how members have been able to get engaged in up to 20% of all government business, which is a significant amount of time. I wonder if the Minister of Finance can highlight how important it is that we get the job done at some point and get the legislation passed. That is something that the Minister of Finance is ultimately responsible for doing.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his question. I would point out that we have moved forward on important measures and that we want to have closure on these important measures that are making a real difference for Canadians. We talked about some important things that we have moved forward on, such as helping single and vulnerable seniors in our society with a 10% increase in the guaranteed income supplement. We have moved forward on the Canada child benefit, which is helping literally hundreds of thousands of families, and 300,000 children will be moved out of poverty. We are starting to see a real impact on our economy. In the third quarter, we started to see a turnaround in our economy. We know that is a result of the important work in Fort McMurray. It is also because so many Canadian families that were struggling to get by now have access to the Canada child benefit, which is making a real difference for their families and also helping our economy. That has a positive impact today and for tomorrow. It is something we need to move forward on so that we can continue to make a difference for Canadian families.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Madam Speaker, during the worst economic recession since the great recession, our government had the best job creation and economic growth record among the G7 countries. We had the lowest tax rate in 50 years. During that same time, 200,000 jobs were created. We kept our promise to balance the budget and left the Liberals with a surplus during the worst recession since the great recession. Therefore, my question to the member is this. Is time allocation being placed here because in the arena of public opinion, the government can no longer afford to have revelations and affirmations of the facts on this side of the House that its tax hikes and deficit expenditures are not working to create jobs?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is important to consider the record that we came in on. We came in after 10 years. We were left with a significant amount of additional debt by the previous government. There was over $100 billion of additional debt that was built up. We were left with the lowest growth rate in the period since the Great Depression. Therefore, we found ourselves in a situation where something had to be done to help Canadian families. We have already moved forward on some things that are making a real and measurable difference for Canadian families. We have helped those who are challenged. The unemployment rate has declined. What we need to do is move forward on how we can create long-term, full-time jobs for Canadians. We know that making investments in infrastructure and finding ways to ensure that our economy is innovative and successful will make a difference over the long term. That is what we are moving forward on. We need to get this bill passed, so that we can move forward with the business of this House to help Canadians.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Madam Speaker, we have often heard from the current government the commitment that it wants to hear from Canadians, and from parliamentarians, whatever side of the House they are on, and time allocation on debate is obviously antithetical to that. We hear often from the Liberals in conversation that they have not used as many time allocation motions as the Harper Conservatives did. However, that is partly because they do not have anywhere near as much legislation on the Order Paper as the last government did. Therefore, the variable we need to control for is the laziness of the government. There were122 bills that received royal assent in the last Parliament, and there were 102 time allocation motions. That is 0.84 time allocation motions per bill that received royal assent. To date in this Parliament, there have been nine bills that have received royal assent, and eight time allocation motions on those bills that received royal assent. That is a rate of 0.89. How does the current government justify using time allocation at a higher rate than the Harper government for the bills that it is getting through Parliament?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to be clear. The way we measure success has everything to do with how much of a difference we are making for Canadians. The kinds of measures that we take are measures such as, how many single seniors who were in a vulnerable position before the guaranteed income supplement top-up are now in a better position? That is an important measurement. How many children have been lifted above the low-income cut-off because we have increased the Canada child benefit? That matters. These are the kinds of measures that matter. We are going to move forward on measures that are actually going to improve our growth rate. That is going to matter. We are going to do it in a way that is inclusive, that ensures that Canadians from all incomes are actually doing better. Those are the kinds of measures that matter.

We are absolutely going to move forward to make a real difference for Canadians. That is what they expect us to do.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Madam Speaker, I think what Canadians are seeing over and over again with the Liberal government is that it has a facade. It says one thing—it says it is going to respect Parliament, for example—and then as soon as Canadians or, in this case, parliamentarians, kind of scratch away at the surface, we realize there is absolutely nothing behind the facade. It says one thing and then it does something completely different. Whether it is on deficit, on policy in the Middle East, on fighting ISIS, on fiscal policy, or whether it is on respecting Parliament, it is all a facade.

The new House leader came in saying that she was going to set a new tone. I can tell members that on the opposition side of the House, we have been working in good faith with the government. We only ask for what the previous House leader implemented, as far as the ability to debate. He allowed five days at this stage of the previous budget implementation act. We have had one hour on this.

Canadians are seeing the complete charade that the Liberals are showing them, and they are not buying it.

I want to ask the current finance minister—and I do not want to hear the talking points that the House leader gave him—when they will start doing what is right for Canadians, when will they be authentic and real with Canadians, and when they will quit this act and this facade in everything that they do?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I think we have been pretty clear. We have said that we want to grow the economy for the middle class and for those who are striving to get into the middle class. It has been a consistent message from the day we came into office. The very first thing we did was to lower taxes on middle-class Canadians, which is entirely consistent with what we said we were going to do: help the middle class.

Then we moved forward on helping those struggling to get into the middle class. The Canada child benefit is helping the poorest of Canadians to have a better outcome for their children. It is also helping middle-class Canadians to buy the things that they want for their families. We then moved forward and said we were going to help single seniors who are in a vulnerable situation, which is, again, entirely consistent with what we said we were going to do.

What we are doing now is moving forward on a long-term agenda, to make investments that are going to help all Canadians with a more productive economy over the long term.

This is what Canadians expect. They expect us to do things that are on their behalf and on their children's behalf, for today and for tomorrow. That is exactly what we are going to do.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Madam Speaker, last year, the Liberals told us that they were going to do politics differently. They were going to restore citizens’ confidence in their institutions, put the members back at the center of our parliamentary system, fight cynicism, and turn the page to to have a political approach that is healthier, more transparent, more open and more attentive to the people.

Today, we realize that the government is employing to the same tactics we have seen before. Parliamentarians are being muzzled. Members cannot do their work. It is all quite crazy. There are 338 members in the House, and the Liberal government has just limited time for debate at the report stage to one hour.

Is this how they fight cynicism? Is this how they put members back at the heart of our democracy? Is this how they restore confidence in institutions?

What will it be next time, five minutes of debate and that’s it?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, as I said, counting today and tomorrow, we will have had nine days of debate on Bill C-29. We know that 60 members have had the opportunity to participate in our debate. That is very important.

We also know that corresponds to 20% of the time available for government business for this session. It is very important to have time. We have had time, and that is how we can get things done for Canadians. That is our goal.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Madam Speaker, I had an opportunity earlier today to talk about the percentage of bills that have had time allocation. I know how frustrating it is for members on this side of the House having only one hour of debate.

We should be looking at some of the issues. Liberals speak about real differences for Canadians. When we look at the chart on page 240 of the Liberal budget, it shows even less than 3% of the floor that the Conservatives had set after negotiations for health care transfers. This is something that people should recognize for the sham it really is.

Perhaps the minister could talk about how that particular part got into the budget.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to use some statistics from the previous government that might be helpful. A number of years ago, on Bill C-4, which consisted of 322 pages, there were five days of debate at second reading under time allocation, two days at report stage under time allocation, and one day at third reading under time allocation.

On Bill C-31, which was 380 pages, there were five days of debate at second reading under time allocation, two days at report stage under time allocation, and two days at third reading under time allocation.

On Bill C-29, on the other hand, which was only 244 pages, there were six days of debate at second reading, there were two days at report stage, and one day at third reading.

We are doing things in a way that will allow us to get our work done. We are doing it in a way that is appropriate, so that Canadians can understand what we are trying to achieve for them and their families. That is the way we plan on moving forward to make a real difference to our economy and for Canadians over the long run.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Speaker, it is ironic that the government is using time allocation to ram through this budget, because the budget itself imposes a far more brutal type of time allocation on unemployed workers in Regina. It is depriving laid-off workers in my city of the additional weeks of employment insurance benefits that the budget provides everywhere else in Saskatchewan and across Alberta.

On Friday, Statistics Canada reported that for the first time since 1989, Saskatchewan did not stay below the national unemployment rate. Last month and the month before were the only two months in the entire history of Statistics Canada's labour force survey, since 1976, that Saskatchewan had a higher unemployment rate than Quebec.

In light of these figures, will the finance minister finally include Regina in the budget's extension of employment insurance?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, since the member opposite is talking about irony, I want to point out the irony that he is trying to slow down something that we know will have an impact on our economy. We want to make investments that will help us to have long-term jobs in our country. That means making investments in infrastructure that will have an impact across the country, but, importantly, in Saskatchewan. It means moving forward on the kinds of things that we know we can do to actually make a difference for people.

We have made some differences on employment insurance, and now we need to think about how we can make a long-term difference, especially for those parts of our country like Alberta, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland and Labrador, that are actually struggling. We need to make the kinds of long-term investments that will make a difference there. That is what we intend to move forward on, and we hope to have the approval of the other side of the House in order to do that.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to add my voice to the chorus of people who are disappointed that, after one hour, the Prime Minister is shutting down debate on something that is very important to our economy. Economic policy is being developed, and debate is being shut down after one hour.

I have a specific question for the minister. Why would a government member move motion no. 1, which would actually delete a clause of a government bill? Could the minister explain to Canadians and parliamentarians why a government member would move to delete a clause of a government bill?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, we are focusing on what we can do to help Canadians, and not on questions that are not going to move forward the important work we need to do for them. That is why we want to move forward on this as rapidly as we can. We know that this is a time when many families are struggling. We have seen significant increases in unemployment in Alberta, and challenges in Saskatchewan and Newfoundland and Labrador. The time to move is now.

Canadians do not expect us to bandy about over tactics. They do not expect us to be talking about little clauses. They want us to make a difference for them and their families. That is what we want to do: move forward in making the kinds of investments that will make a difference. That is what we hope will make a difference in the future for Canadians.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Madam Speaker, it has often been said that, if the only tool one has is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail.

I remember my partner from Skeena—Bulkley Valley reading out the 2015 edition of the Liberals. Well, let us not forget the 2012 edition of the Liberals, when the member for Winnipeg North often criticized the former Conservative government for ramming through legislation and not working with the opposition; the moral outrage.

Could the Minister of Finance tell us what happened? Where is the moral outrage today? What has changed their stripes?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to come back to the situation in which we find ourselves.

We are saying that, with nine days of debate, including today and tomorrow, we will have provided 20% of the available time for government business this fall on this bill and this bill alone. We know this is an important bill. We know we need to move forward in order to make a difference for Canadians. That is what we are working to do.

We look forward to the support of the other side of the House.