House of Commons Hansard #216 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was shepell.

Topics

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

EthicsOral Questions

October 17th, 2017 / 2:20 p.m.

Regina—Qu'Appelle Saskatchewan

Conservative

Andrew Scheer ConservativeLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, the one thing we can always count on with the Liberals is that eventually they start acting like Liberals.

The minister has travelled the country for months calling pizza shop owners and farmers tax cheats, accusing all kinds of hard-working Canadians of trying to avoid paying their fair share. The whole time, it was he himself who was avoiding paying his fair share.

Is there anyone over there who is even slightly embarrassed about the hypocrisy of the finance minister keeping his shares out of a blind trust and not disclosing this to the public?

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, this government was elected on a commitment to Canadians to ensure that their voices were heard in this place, and that is exactly what members of Parliament are doing.

We appreciate the constructive feedback that is coming to the government to ensure that any rules that are implemented work in the best interests of Canadians, especially our job creators, our small businesses. Those are the very people we work hard for every single day.

Yesterday there was an excellent news announcement. We will reduce the small business tax rate from 11% to 9% by 2019. We are not moving ahead with the capital gains exemption, because we listened to farmers and fishers. We want to ensure that intergenerational transfers of businesses continue. We will support--

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

That is a funny answer, Mr. Speaker, because this morning the commissioner said that she never told the finance minister not to place his assets in a blind trust.

Yesterday, my colleague from Skeena—Bulkley Valley wrote to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, asking her to launch an investigation into the personal assets of the Minister of Finance and into Bill C-27, which he is sponsoring.

We now know that the minister did not place his fortune into a blind trust as a number of people, including the hon. member for Spadina—Fort York, believed. He believed it because it made so much sense.

My question is simple. Why did he not do so?

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, as I said, since he took the position, the Minister of Finance has been working with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to make sure that all her recommendations and the legislation on conflicts of interest are followed to the letter.

The Minister of Finance has full confidence in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and her recommendations. He is ready to do whatever is necessary to avoid a real or perceived conflict of interest.

I must also mention that the commissioner has full confidence in Parliament's ability to do its job impartially and honestly.

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques Québec

NDP

Guy Caron NDPParliamentary Leader

Mr. Speaker, the troubling thing about this whole story is that the minister did not have the sense to see that his situation was problematic. Nobody can deny that, if Bill C-27 becomes law, Morneau Shepell will benefit from a significant boost to both its business and its revenue.

As a major shareholder in the company, the Minister of Finance stands to gain personally from the passage of this bill.

I know my definition of “conflict of interest”. I would like the minister to share his definition.

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, this is Small Business Week in Canada, and as the Minister of Small Business and Tourism, I would like to congratulate them for the work they do.

The changes we are making are a direct response to what we have heard from Canadians. The income sprinkling proposals will be simplified to help family businesses. As we work to make the system fairer, we will keep our promise to lower the small business tax rate, which was 11% in 2015 and will drop to 9% in 2019.

EthicsOral Questions

2:20 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is not just the opposition that believed that the finance minister's massive investments were in a blind trust. That is what many Liberals believed as well. Earlier this month, the member for Spadina—Fort York tweeted that the finance minister's shares in Morneau Shepell “were put in an arms length blind trust [when] he was sworn in 2 years ago.”

This is about a serious breach and potential conflict of interest. Will my friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development stand in the House and explain when he was told this untruth and who told it to him?

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Finance has said on many occasions, he is working with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. He will continue to do this important work.

What is more important is that it is Small Business Week, and this government has committed to reducing the small business tax rate from 11% to 9%. This government has committed to listening and engaging with Canadians. Not only have we listened, we have responded to the very real challenges and concerns they are facing. We will continue to ensure that the tax system is more equitable and works for more Canadians.

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, so I guess it is not just the finance minister who is not taking questions today. My friend from Toronto must have gotten the PM shove, as they call it.

This is an important question, because we may be looking at the most blatant conflict of interest in modern Canadian history. The finance minister introduced Bill C-27. This bill would significantly benefit Morneau Shepell and all of its shareholders, like the finance minister. He has not divested nor placed his millions of shares in a blind trust.

What is worse: this massive, troubling conflict of interest, or the fact that Liberals do not seem to think there is a problem in the first place?

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism

Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Small Business and Tourism, I will say that I am very proud that this government is actually listening and engaging with our job creators to ensure that the tax system works for them. The minister has full confidence in the Ethics Commissioner and her recommendations and is willing to take any further steps to avoid conflicts, or any perception of conflicts, as deemed appropriate by the Ethics Commissioner. Moreover, this government is taking action to ensure that the economy continues to grow and that our small businesses continue to create jobs in their communities, benefiting the entire community. We will continue to work hard on behalf of small business owners.

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance started by saying he had revealed all of his holdings to the Ethics Commissioner. Now we know he has an offshore company in France that he did not disclose.

He then said to the media, “I suspect all my assets will go into a blind trust.” That was two years ago. We now know that this did not happen either. Finally, he claimed that the Ethics Commissioner told him he should not put his holdings in a blind trust. Today she testified under oath that she told him no such thing.

We cannot believe the Minister of Finance. When did he sell his shares?

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I want to reassure the House. The Minister of Finance has always been very transparent with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, and he has always worked proactively with her to ensure that all the rules in place and her recommendations are followed. He is always working proactively with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. He even wrote to the commissioner seeking another meeting to see if there were additional recommendations that might apply. He is committed to following every recommendation that the commissioner may have in order to remain in full compliance with the rules that govern us all, in the House.

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance had spokespeople from Morneau Shepell tell the media that his Morneau Shepell shares were in a blind trust. He had the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families tell me on Twitter that his holdings were in a blind trust. He told the media himself two years ago that he suspected that his holdings would go into a blind trust. We know now that none of that was true. We also know that Morneau Shepell has holdings in the tax haven of Barbados.

When did the minister sell his shares in Morneau Shepell?

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, the Minister of Finance has always worked in collaboration with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner in an entirely transparent manner to ensure that he is in compliance with the rules that govern all of us in the House. We have confidence in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, and the minister has even written the commissioner seeking another meeting to discuss his assets and to follow every instruction she might have regarding his personal assets.

EthicsOral Questions

2:25 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Mr. Speaker, they may trust the Ethics Commissioner, but how can Canadians trust these Liberals? As of late yesterday, the Parliamentary Secretary for Urban Affairs was still falsely claiming that the finance minister's assets were in a blind trust. The Prime Minister himself indicated that it was the Ethics Commissioner's responsibility in these matters, yet she testified today that it was the minister's choice not to put the shares in a blind trust.

The daily revelations of the finance minister show nothing but hypocrisy, and I want to know one simple thing. When did the finance minister sell his shares in Morneau Shepell?

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the Minister of Finance has been working with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner from the very beginning of his term to ensure that she had a full picture of his assets and that he would be in compliance with all rules governing us here in the House. He is also committed to acting on any and all recommendations she might make following a request that he initiated to meet with her.

If I may, I would add that the Minister of Finance is a man of great integrity who has dedicated himself to public service for the past two years with a record that makes others pale by comparison and is the envy of the world: the strongest growth in the G7 and inclusive prosperity for all Canadians.

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister seems to have one set of rules for himself and a completely other set for everybody else. He made the choice to attack hard-working Canadian entrepreneurs while protecting his own personal wealth. He is the one that is hiding an offshore account, and he will not tell Canadians why he did not put his vast personal wealth into a blind trust, like the law requires.

Let me be clear. This was his choice, always his choice, and these are his ethics we are talking about. I just want to know, when did the finance minister sell his shares in Morneau Shepell?

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the House has full confidence in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, and the Minister of Finance is committed to working with her. He requested a meeting with her in order to make sure he was following any recommendations she might make to him. As he has done since the beginning of his term, since he took office, and even before that, he will continue to work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, as he has always done. That is what is expected of all members of the House.

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is a serious issue of critical importance. The Minister of Finance is the architect of every one of Canada's economic and tax policies. Morneau Shepell is a multi-billion dollar company on Bay Street that applies Canada's tax policies every day. It is a perfect example of a conflict of interest right out of the gate.

The question is clear: when did the Minister of Finance sell his shares in Morneau Shepell?

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, from day one, the Minister of Finance has met with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and worked with her to ensure that he followed all of her recommendations and that he was in compliance with the rules that govern us all. He is committed to doing the same moving forward, again in close collaboration with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, who has the full confidence of the House.

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am still thankful for one thing: the member for Louis-Hébert has been authorized by the Prime Minister to answer questions, unlike the Minister of Finance. At least that is something. Seriously, the situation is completely untenable; we are talking about the moral authority of the Minister of Finance of Canada, here.

When did the Minister of Finance sell his shares in Morneau Shepell?

EthicsOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the Minister of Finance has worked with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner since he first took office. This has been ongoing and he asked for a meeting with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to ensure that he was in full compliance at all times. That is expected of all members of the House. If I may say so, public service is important to the Minister of Finance, who, in the past two years, has given Canadians the strongest growth of the past decade and reduced child poverty by 40%. I am very proud to serve with him.

International TradeOral Questions

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, it was confirmed today that the Americans are demanding an end to our supply management system within the next 10 years. They are also demanding 5% of our market. When it comes to protecting our supply management system, the Liberals are certainly used to kowtowing to our trade partners. For us, however, the protection of our supply management system is non-negotiable, and we will not allow it to be chipped away any further.

To avoid repeating the same errors that were made with CETA and the trans-Pacific partnership 11, can the minister confirm today that the Liberals will not allow the agreement to be chipped away any further?