House of Commons Hansard #216 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was shepell.

Topics

Public Service Labour Relations ActRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-34, An Act to amend the Public Service Labour Relations Act and other Acts.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Interparliamentary DelegationsRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, two reports by the delegation of the Canadian branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, the APF.

The first is respecting its participation at the bureau meeting and the 42nd ordinary session of the APF held in Madagascar from July 8 to 12, 2016.

The second is respecting its participation at the meeting of the Education, Communication and Cultural Affairs Committee of the APF held in Benin on May 3 and 4, 2017.

Procedure and House AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Orders 104 and 114, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 40th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the membership of committees of the House. If the House gives its consent, I intend to move concurrence in the 40th report later this day.

Prevention of Radicalization through Foreign Funding ActRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-371, An Act respecting the prevention of radicalization through foreign funding and making related amendments to the Income Tax Act.

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to present my very first private member's bill, the prevention of radicalization through foreign funding act. This legislation would provide a powerful tool to stem the flow of funding from foreign groups that promote radicalization and extremism in Canada.

This bill deals with the so-called secret laws relating to the funding of organizations and institutions in Canada that support radicalization.

Security experts and anti-radicalization representatives, including members of the Muslim community, are calling for greater scrutiny of funds intended to support radicalization.

The bill sets out a schedule of foreign states, extending to individuals and entities that suppress religious freedom, impose punishments for religious beliefs, or have engaged in or facilitated activities that promote extremism, terrorism, and radicalization. Canadian individuals and institutions would be prohibited from accepting money or gifts from any state, individual, or entity listed on the schedule.

My sincere hope is that the government will see the practical value of the bill and give it full and thoughtful consideration.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Bankruptcy and Insolvency ActRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-372, An Act to amend the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act and the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act (pension plans and group insurance plans).

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to introduce my first bill in the House today, a private member's bill that seeks to amend the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act and the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act.

This bill seeks to correct the injustice faced by retired workers whose pension plans and group insurance plans are not protected when their company goes bankrupt or undergoes restructuring.

I will do everything in my power to ensure that this bill receives royal assent, that way, we can help prevent retirees, like those from my riding who are here today to support me, from losing their pensions, and improve the existing legislation by giving pension plans' unfunded liabilities preferred creditor status, among other things. I hope my colleagues will be supporting this bill.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

Procedure and House AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

October 17th, 2017 / 10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, if the House gives its consent, I move that the 40th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, presented to the House earlier this day, be concurred in.

Procedure and House AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to move the motion?

Procedure and House AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

TaxationPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition signed by campers who stayed at Wilderness Park in Dowling, Ontario, located in the spectacular riding of Nickel Belt. The petitioners call upon Parliament to ensure that campgrounds with fewer than five full-time year-round employees be taxed as small businesses.

Legislative AmendmentsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present two petitions, petition 421 and petition e-587, which call on the government to amend the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act and the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act.

Shark FinningLegislative AmendmentsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present three petitions this morning. The first petition deals with an issue that this House has debated but has not yet taken action on, which is the sale, distribution, and trade of shark fins in Canada. Sharks around the world are endangered, and the petitioners ask the House to deal with what is illegal in Canada, which is the finning of sharks, and extend it to the trade in shark fins, which is not illegal.

The EnvironmentLegislative AmendmentsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, in the second petition, many petitioners are calling upon the government to go farther than Bill C-48, which is is currently before the House, with respect to a tanker ban on the north coast of B.C. The petitioners ask that a ban on crude oil tankers extend through B.C.'s entire west coast.

Employment InsuranceLegislative AmendmentsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, the petitioners in the last petition call upon the government to extend employment insurance sickness benefits to 52 weeks for Canadians who are battling cancer and other critical illnesses.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I would ask that all questions be allowed to stand at this time.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

Is that agreed?

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Supply ManagementRequest for Emergency DebateRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I have received notice of an application for an emergency debate from the hon. member for Mirabel.

Supply ManagementRequest for Emergency DebateRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Bloc

Simon Marcil Bloc Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, the American administration's desire to abolish supply management constitutes an unprecedented threat to Quebec agriculture.

By calling for the abolition of our agricultural model, American negotiators are out to get our dairy farmers and poultry producers. This is happening right now. Canada's negotiators need to walk away from the negotiating table any time supply management is mentioned.

The urgent nature of this debate is quite clear. We need to take action in the House today. We will not allow the Americans to destroy our agriculture. This is a fundamental issue for Quebec, and quite frankly, for the rest of Canada too. We voted unanimously on a motion to fully maintain supply management, which is currently being threatened. We will not allow that. We have had enough of the ridiculous demands of the American administration. Once the Americans are ready to get serious and negotiate a free trade agreement that works for everyone, they will come back to the table, but for now, we need to send a clear message. We will not allow anyone to destroy our agricultural sector.

Speaker's RulingRequest for Emergency DebateRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I thank the hon. member for Mirabel for raising this important matter. However, I find that the request does not meet the exigencies of the Standing Orders at this time.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

moved:

That, given accusations by experts that the Minister of Finance’s family business, Morneau Shepell, stands to benefit from the proposed changes outlined in "Tax Planning Using Private Corporations" and assurances by the Minister that he has abided by his Public Declaration of Agreed Compliance Measures with respect to his family business, the House request that the Minister table all documents he submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner between November 4, 2015, and July 18, 2017.

Mr. Speaker, the Finance Minister of Canada has awesome powers to help or hinder individual businesses, particularly those businesses that deal in products like pensions. A minister of finance knows beforehand about government decisions that move markets and push individual companies up or down, and his decisions can impact the direct bottom line of companies in which everyday Canadians invest and for which they work. No one in government has more power over taxation, regulations, tariffs, subsidies, or government bond auctions, all of which have direct impact on the fortunes of individual businesses.

He who has the most control over the nation's finances should have the most transparency over his interests. From those to whom much is given, much is asked. We give ministers the power to impact the lives of everyday people. We expect that they prove they are exercising those decisions in the public interest and not the private interest. This is especially true of the Minister of Finance, for whom these powers are so vast.

We are not dealing with an ordinary Minister of Finance. His father built a billion-dollar financial services firm. According to last available insider trader reports, the current finance minister held over $30-million worth of shares in that fine family business as of 2015. Since he became minister, he stopped disclosing his holdings, which is greatly ironic: we knew more about his interests before he was finance minister than we do now.

Public filings with the insider trading reports ensured that he, as a corporate executive, was accountable to his shareholders. He now has no similar accountability to the 35 million shareholders we call Canadian citizens. This company is of direct interest to the minister's department.

I will read from the Morneau Shepell website:

Morneau Shepell is the largest provider of pension administration technology and services in Canada. We offer a full range of solutions from software to full outsourcing of pension administration.

Who regulates pensions in Canada? It is the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. To whom does that office report? Why, it is the finance minister, and that office regulates “...1,200 pension plans”.

Interestingly, if we go to the Morneau Shepell website, it makes direct reference to that office, saying that the office appoints Morneau Shepell to wind down the pension plans of bankrupt companies. If a company pension plan is going under, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions needs someone to oversee the pension. In the meantime, it picks from a variety of providers. Of course, there is a financial benefit to whoever is selected, and Morneau Shepell brags on its website that it offers its own services to this office that reports directly to the finance minister.

There are broad and sweeping regulations at a national level to federally regulated pension plans. Of course, Morneau Shepell offers those pension plans. Pension plans also purchase government bonds. The finance minister sells government bonds.

Every year we have new issuances of government bonds as the government runs deficits and needs to borrow money and past bonds come to maturity and need to be renewed. They are sold to institutional investors, such as pension funds, of which Morneau Shepell is one. The finance minister's family business buys government bonds and the finance minister sells government bonds.

Then there is the issue of taxation. The finance minister, of course, is responsible for setting tax policy for the whole country. That is important for everyone, but especially for companies whose interests and activities are so dramatically impacted by tax levels and tax rules. Allow me to provide one example.

The minister proposed in his July 18 consultation paper to double tax the investment income private businesses earn within their companies. The result is that many of them would be forced to take their retirement savings out of their private companies and put them into individual pension plans, a unique and not well-understood product. A few Canadians hold them, and far fewer companies offer them. One of those companies is Morneau Shepell. The minister might say that he did not take that into consideration when he made his public policy proposal, but we do not know that, because we are not familiar with what holdings he continues to possess.

Furthermore, the minister has defended Canada's 40-year-long tax treaty with Barbados. That treaty allows Canadian companies and wealthy individuals to pay only 2.5% tax in Barbados and to then ship the rest of their profits back to Canada tax free. The minister's family business has registered a subsidiary in Barbados to take advantage of exactly those favourable tax conditions, so the finance minister is responsible for reviewing a tax treaty with a tax haven where his family business has a subsidiary.

Here is what we know about the finance minister. His father built a billion-dollar family business. As of 2015, the finance minister was receiving employment income from that family business, and as of that same year, he had $30 million in shares in that company. Since he has become minister, we no longer know if he holds on to those shares, and it is not because the minister has not been asked. He has been asked on probably a dozen occasions, and he simply refuses to answer. For the longest time, most people thought he could not answer. It is in a blind trust, so he would not know.

On Twitter late last week, I had an exchange with the Liberal member for downtown Toronto, who came leaping to the finance minister's defence by saying that the money is obviously in an arm's-length blind trust, so how could the minister possibly know where his money is, as it is all blinded to him. I do not blame that Liberal member for saying that, because most of the press gallery thought exactly the same thing. Everyone just assumed that if a finance minister has shares in a financial company, they would have to go into a blind trust.

Through two weeks of intrepid investigative journalism, The Globe and Mail finally was able to extract the fact that the minister does not have a blind trust, so he knows what he holds. He knows his assets. He knows what they are. Why will he not tell everyone else? Some might suggest that this is an intimate, private detail that we could not possibly ask someone to volunteer to strangers. That is an odd response, given that he was, as a corporate executive, forced to reveal exactly the same facts. Am I the only one who finds it peculiar that a corporate executive had a higher standard of public transparency than the Minister of Finance?

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

An hon. member

You are not alone.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

I am not alone, Mr. Speaker.

I think most Canadians would think that the man who directs our taxation regulations, subsidies, tariffs, and financial regulation policy in this country, and is responsible for $300 billion of public spending, would have a higher degree of public disclosure than a corporate executive. However, those who would expect that would be wrong, at least under the present government.

I found this particularly surprising, because when I was a parliamentary secretary, I opened a very meagre stock portfolio. I will not say exactly how much, but it was well shy of $30 million. I know the members of the House are shocked to hear that. I am the son of two teachers. The reality is that I did not have $30 million. I went to the Ethics Commissioner, and she said, “Yes, I am afraid that is going into a blind trust.” At the end of the day, I put that in a blind trust for as long as I held it and maintained that blind trust separate and out of my control.

We think a parliamentary secretary should not be able to know what he or she owns in the stock market. Why on God's green earth would we expect it to be appropriate for the finance minister to own tens of millions of dollars of interest without either putting it into a blind trust, divesting it altogether, or at the very least, telling the public what he holds?

During the Paul Martin era, he owned Canada Steamship Lines. I thought it was particularly egregious the way that finance minister arranged his affairs, reflagging his ships to avoid paying the same taxes he imposed on other Canadians. At least we could debate those facts in the Martin era, because we knew them. He, at least, to his credit, made clear to Canadians that he had this massive shipping empire under his command, and then subsequently under the command of his children while he was pulling the financial strings of the country.

Today we are expected to just trust the finance minister and assume he wants us to have blind trust in him, even though he does not have a blind trust himself. This is the same minister who already broke the requirements of the ethics act by covering up his offshore corporation in France, which owns his villa there, a villa that may produce rental income. That, of course, would not be taxed in Canada, because it would be held in that shell corporation offshore. Meanwhile, the minister wants to impose higher taxes on private corporations here in Canada, the mom and pop grocery stores that cannot afford the lawyers and consultants to set them up with offshore companies in France. They will pay higher taxes on their passive income while his policy allows him to continue to accumulate riches abroad, out of the reach of the same tax system he would impose on everyone else.

Going back to the parliamentary secretary, when that member from downtown Toronto told us over Twitter that his minister had a blind trust, someone asked him why. He responded that it is the “laaaaaaaaaw”, with nine letter a's to emphasize the importance of the law. I honestly believe that the member thought the minister would have to have a blind trust to function in any kind of ethical environment and avoid conflicts of interest.

We should all turn our thoughts to the junior staffers in ministers' offices who make modest middle-class incomes and have to put their $5,000 RRSPs in blind trusts. What must they think of a minister on the front bench who not only cannot be bothered to respect the same principle but who thinks he is entitled to hide his interests and potential conflicts from the Canadian people who pay his salary? That is emblematic of the kind of entitlement the millionaire finance minister and the millionaire Prime Minister have come to possess.

I understand why they would be out of touch. They do not appreciate that everyday Canadians do not have multi-million dollar trust funds handed down to them from their grandparents and their parents. The Prime Minister has been very blessed with what he likes to boast of as his family fortune. His grandfather ran an oil and gas empire, and the Prime Minister today is still living off the fruits of his grandfather's hard work and labour. The finance minister has been very blessed to come from a family that built a billion-dollar family business. Both of them are very well taken care of by these family trusts they enjoy and the inheritances that have been passed down to them. I do not begrudge their families their success, but I ask that they hold themselves to the same standard as everyone else.

Average Canadians pay higher taxes under the government. We saw how the finance minister and the Prime Minister meticulously designed a tax increase, targeted at local businesses and family farmers, that would protect their family fortunes. The billion-dollar family business of the finance minister, Morneau Shepell, is publicly traded, so it faced no new taxes under this latest attack on small businesses. The Prime Minister went out and boasted to the media that his family fortune would not be affected by any of the tax increases. Meanwhile, the hard-working entrepreneurs who started with nothing and built their way from the ground up were expected to pay taxes as high as 71%.

It is as though the finance minister and the Prime Minister were at the top of a castle wall looking down at the peasants and pulling up the ladder so that nobody could climb and join the court. This is the imagery the government creates when it protects the aristocratic wealth of the Prime Minister and the finance minister and prevents everyone else from having an opportunity to build a brighter future for themselves the same way the finance minister's father and the Prime Minister's grandfather were able to build for their families.

This comes back to the essential debate we are having in this country. On the other side, we see a desire for a government-run economy. Do not get me wrong. People are able to get rich; it is how they get rich. In a free market economy, people get rich by having the best product. In a government-run economy, people get rich by having the best lobbyists. A free market economy allows people to get ahead on merit. In a government-run economy, people get ahead on connections. In a free market economy, people can only be better off if they sell things that are worth more to them than what they paid for them. In a government-run economy, people get ahead by using political power to transform itself into financial power.

A free market system has allowed literally billions of people around the world to escape grinding poverty and achieve a better future for all. It is the greatest poverty-fighting machine ever invented. It is the best system we know. We understand that the government across the way does not believe in it. It believes in a government-directed economy, where insiders get ahead using their political power, where the power of force is used to extract money from the pockets of people who have earned it and to put it into the hands of those who have not.

Ours is a struggle for the hard-working middle-class people who put in a hard day's work for a better life. We ask that the Prime Minister and the finance minister prove that they share that same goal by revealing to all Canadians the vested interests they possess so that all of us can ensure that they are acting in the public interest and not in their narrow private interests.

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Whitby Ontario

Liberal

Celina Caesar-Chavannes LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite has used a lot of time and resources in focusing on the finance minister, but on this side of the House we focus on Canadians.

Last week, the same member waxed poetic about facts and the finance minister and I want to give Canadians some facts: fact, Canada's economy is growing faster than it has in more than a decade, in fact, at one of the strongest rates in the G7; fact, over 400,000 jobs have been created since we have taken office, most of them full-time jobs; fact, unemployment is the lowest it has been in more than a decade.

What would the hon. member say to his constituents who are benefiting from these facts?

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member is correct in pointing out that the Prime Minister and finance minister have been given great fortune. The previous government left a balanced budget and a growing economy, the strongest balance sheet in the G7 by far and the lowest debt. That strong financial situation has, of course, allowed Canada to withstand the damaging policies that the Prime Minister has so far enacted over the last two years. We also see a much faster growing global economy, one in which the United States and the rest of the world are finally starting to recover from the original financial crisis that the Conservative government was able to help Canada withstand.

That great fortune is landing in the lap of the Prime Minister and the finance minister, and they have a lot of experience inheriting great fortunes. The question is what they will do with it. Will they return to a balanced budget? Will they lower the tax burden so that hard-working people can continue to earn a better life for themselves and their families? Will they build upon the Conservative record, which reduced poverty to its lowest level on record and resulted in the biggest increase in median incomes on record? Will they build upon that successful low-debt, low-tax record, or will they squander this fortune they have inherited?

Opposition Motion—Minister of Finance's documents submitted to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, the official opposition's motion today is clearly of interest to Canadians. I do not know if “regret” is the right word, but it is lamentable, I suppose, that we need to spend a day in Parliament asking for something that should have been clear and obvious when the finance minister took on the most important job in the cabinet, outside of the Prime Minister's job. There has been a pattern with the finance minister.

Maybe I am naive, but I think many Canadians believed the finance minister two years ago when he suggested that he would put his wealth into a blind trust. I believed him, because that was the obvious thing for a finance minister to do. Paul Martin did that, as well as a succession of finance ministers, because if they are wealthy and have assets that could be impacted by the decisions they make as finance ministers, the only way to shield themselves from ethical violations, either perceived or real, in which they would benefit from their ministerial decisions is to put all their assets into a blind trust, as the Prime Minister did. I believe the health minister and other ministers in the current cabinet did, like previous cabinets did.

Today the Conservatives are requesting access to what the Ethics Commissioner was told. I believe those conversations, by their nature, need to have some element of privacy so that people can divulge information to the commissioner, and because MPs have to share a lot of personal information with her. If one has held a senior position in a private company like Morneau Shepell, one would have to divulge a great deal of personal information about one's shares and when those shares get sold. There is also legal counsel within a company to advise about the sale of shares. With Equifax recently, we saw senior management of a company that was in a lot of trouble suddenly start selling shares.

However, on the political side, is there perhaps a gap in the way that our ethics and conflict of interest legislation is designed that something like this could happen, whereby, in a private meeting with an Ethics Commissioner, finance ministers could simply choose not to put things into a blind trust and choose, in that way, to expose themselves to a conflict of interest?

I concern myself with the larger conversation in this country, which is our economy, how things are managed, and how a finance minister could continue to do his job when he is shrouded in this much personal controversy of his own making. Do we need to strengthen the way that disclosures happen so that the obvious and ethical thing happens each and every single time, not just by that person's particular choice?