House of Commons Hansard #210 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was canada's.
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, SMEs need a tax system that encouragers them to make active investments.
At the same time, it is important for the tax system to be fair, and that is the purpose of our measures. We decided it was very important to listen. That is why we held consultations. We will consider the feedback we received, since it is very important in making decisions in the future. That is what we will do.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, horrific scenes that we thought were a thing of the past have been playing out in Catalonia. People have been arrested, injured, and shot with rubber bullets, and seniors have been dragged out into the street simply because they wanted to vote.
Madrid is using force to deny Catalans their right to self-determination. The Prime Minister, who is always quick to preach about democracy and human rights, has said nothing.
Why is the government remaining silent on the situation in Catalonia?
Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister of Small Business and Tourism
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take a moment to congratulate the New Democratic Party on the election of its new leader, who will bring a new and welcome diversity to the roster of federal party leaders.
Our government will stay focused on protecting the environment, growing the economy, and building a stronger middle class. We look forward to a constructive debate and working together with the NDP toward a common goal of building a better future for all Canadians. We just want to say congratulations.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
I will give the government a second chance. It was about Catalonia.
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has made a big deal about Canada being back on the international scene, yet when it comes time to step up to the plate and condemn the violation of democratic principles in Catalonia, his government chooses not to.
In the process of trying to vote, people are being arrested and subjected to violence. These actions need to be condemned. Why does the government continue to remain silent?
Chrystia Freeland LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs
Mr. Speaker, Canada, of course, values its relationship with Spain. While the issue of Catalonia is an internal matter for Spain, yesterday's reports of violence are very concerning. A solution to this debate should be found respectfully within the rule of law, according to the Spanish constitution, and through peaceful dialogue.
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Mr. Speaker, yesterday on Tout le monde en parle the Minister of Canadian Heritage was unable to defend her indefensible deal with Netflix.
No one in Quebec thinks that this is a good deal, but the minister continued to boast about how we are the only country to have signed this type of agreement with Netflix. That is to be expected, since no other country would want to sell out its cultural sovereignty to the Americans.
The minister keep saying that it was impossible to do otherwise, but Japan, Australia, Norway, and the European Union are making online companies like Netflix pay their fair share.
Does the minister believe that we are unable to do so?
Mélanie Joly LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
Mr. Speaker, I am listening to and I understand stakeholders' concerns.
That being said, we need to protect and promote our creative industries in this digital age. That is exactly why I presented a plan last Thursday to reform a sector that has not been modernized in 30 years. I hope to be able to work with stakeholders in doing that.
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Canadian Heritage continues to brag that Canada is the first country to make such a deal with Netflix. I will tell members why. Surely, it is a great deal for Netflix, but not for Canadians. Three-quarters of this investment comes directly from Canadians through a Netflix rate hike. In the meantime, other countries are trying to create a level playing field by ensuring that large corporations like Netflix pay their fair share. Why is the government working for the best interests of large American companies and not for us Canadians?
Mélanie Joly LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
Mr. Speaker, we are extremely proud of the vision for a creative Canada that we had the chance to present last Thursday, and the very historic investments on the part of a foreign platform, which is Netflix, of $500 million over the next five years in Canadian productions. This is great news for our industry.
We will work to make sure that we modernize our sector to protect and promote our culture during this important time, which is the digital shift.
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Mr. Speaker, the consultation period on the unfair Liberal tax changes is coming to an end. While many questions are unanswered, what is clear is that companies like Morneau Shepell will be sheltered from these tax increases and, specifically, Morneau Shepell will benefit from these tax changes. Going after small businesses while protecting one's own investment is hypocritical.
Does the Minister of Finance not see that this decision appears to put him in a direct conflict of interest?
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, what we have seen is that the system we have right now encourages wealthy people to incorporate so they can pay a lower rate of tax. That is not the system we want in order to make sure that it is fair.
We have identified some measures that we know will make an important difference. We have also said that we need to listen to people to make sure we get those measures right. We have listened. We are going to continue to listen and make sure we take into account what we have heard in our consultations so that we can move forward, making sure that our system is fair and that people will continue to invest in our economy.
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Mr. Speaker, we know the minister has had a tough weekend, so he may have forgotten that he committed to abstain from any discussions surrounding Morneau Shepell.
We have heard from expert testimony that the Liberal tax changes will benefit companies that provide individual pension plans, plans that Morneau Shepell provides.
Why did the Minister of Finance not abstain from these discussions, or is he like the Prime Minister and he thinks the rules just do not apply to him?
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, it is critically important that a minister of finance gets engaged in order to make sure that our tax system is fair, and that is exactly what I have done. We have taken a look at the kinds of things in our tax code right now that encourage behaviour for wealthy individuals to pay a lower tax rate than other middle-class Canadians. That is not a system that we want to have going forward.
We have done this in a way that we know will allow people to have a point of view, and they have expressed a point of view on many occasions. We are going to listen to that input to make sure that we get this right. That is what we commit to Canadians, and that is what we will be doing as we move forward.
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Speaker, last Friday, we five Conservative members from Quebec City held a town hall meeting with the city's business community. One business owner named Steeve Marin told us, in a voice choked with emotion, that after all the sacrifices he has made, these reforms are incredibly disrespectful. That is the reality faced by Canadian business owners.
Meanwhile, the minister has chosen to shield his family business instead of abstaining from decision-making.
Why is the Minister going after entrepreneurs like Steeve Marin while protecting his own business?
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, it is very important to have a tax system that is fair and that encourages people to invest in their active business.
We know we can get both of those results at the same time. That is exactly what we want to do. We have listened, and we are going to move forward with our measures, taking into account what we heard during our consultations.
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Speaker, here is another story we heard Friday morning in Quebec City. Ms. Lapierre is a business woman. She and her spouse started a business three years ago. For 10 months, they drew no salary so they could pay their employees. That is how it is for Canadian entrepreneurs. That is not how it is for people on Bay Street or for Morneau Shepell. That is how it is for Canadian entrepreneurs.
Given how it might affect his own family business, why did the minister not recuse himself from the discussion on his terrible tax reform?
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, we know that people who own small businesses take big risks. We know that it is important for them to have opportunities to invest in their businesses. It is also important for them and all Canadians to have a fair tax system. We are holding consultations and listening to what people have to say because it is important to have a system that works and an economy that works, and to make significant investments in our economy. That is our goal.
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, fact, the Liberal proposal will take away retirement income splitting for small business owners unless they take that money out and put it in an individualized pension plan. Fact, this proposal will bring in a double tax on passive income earned within a company unless it is taken out and put into an individual pension plan. Fact, Morneau Shepell is one of the few companies in the entire country that sells individual pension plans.
Did the finance minister disclose these facts to the Ethics Commissioner before he came forward with these proposals?
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, we know it is important that our tax system is fair. We also know that it is complex. Therefore, as we move forward with measures to make sure we do not encourage wealthy people to incorporate to have a lower tax rate than middle-class Canadians, we know it is important to listen to get this right.
We are listening. We have heard things that we know are going to be important in our implementation. This is exactly what we committed to Canadians. As we move forward, we are going to get this right. Consultations matter. We are going to make sure that we move forward in a way that will encourage people to continue to have successful businesses in our country.
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, Canadians are listening too, and they know that a lot of people will be hurt. Farmers will be hurt, because they will pay double tax trying to sell their farm to the next generation. No tax will be paid when that farm is sold through a giant corporate conglomerate, like, say, McCain. Small businesses that are trying to save for their future, for maternity or severance, will be hurt with a double tax, reaching as high as 73%. However, a small group of people will be helped, including the minister's family business. Is he not just a little embarrassed to have put forward a proposal that hurts so many people but helps him?
Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance
Mr. Speaker, in our consultations across the country, we have listened to farmers. We have listened to small business owners. We have listened to people who want to save within their businesses for taking time off for their families. Our goal is to make sure that as we consider how we move forward on these measures that are important to make sure our system is fair, that we consider all of those things.
I have said that we will make sure that farmers are not negatively impacted. We will make sure that small business owners can continue to invest in their businesses. We will make sure that people can continue to save within businesses. These are all important objectives. We know that we can achieve fairness.
Georgina Jolibois NDP Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said at the UN that Canada believes in “An approach that...emphasizes fairness...for everyone”... He also said that the historic experience of aboriginal peoples “was mostly one of humiliation, neglect, and abuse”, and and yet his lawyers claim that the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement does not include the right to procedural fairness.
How can the Prime Minister allow his government's lawyers to argue that survivors of abuse still do not deserve fairness?
Carolyn Bennett LiberalMinister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Mr. Speaker, there is nothing further from the truth. We expect fairness in all judicial interactions with first nations, and particularly with the survivors of the Indian residential schools and the execution of their settlement agreements. I am happy to talk to the member opposite to find out what the specifics are that she is referring to.
Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Mr. Speaker, the position being taken by the government's lawyers is contrary to the letter, the spirit, and the intent of the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement. The Anishinaabe people in my riding, who have been waiting a long time, placed so much hope in what the Prime Minister said following the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
The Minister of Justice is an experienced lawyer. Does she seriously think that the Supreme Court and the entire legal community intended to draft an agreement that did not even include a fair process for survivors?
Carolyn Bennett LiberalMinister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Mr. Speaker, I do not believe, at any time, that there would be an agreement that would not include fair justice for survivors. I think that we are looking to almost be done with the Indian residential school issue, which is winding down because there has been fairness.
I thank the member, and I will look into whatever reference she is talking to.