House of Commons Hansard #338 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was inmates.
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Mr. Speaker, in November 2015, both the minister of defence and the President of the Treasury Board were at the International Security Forum in Halifax.
Can one of those ministers tell the House if a meeting took place with Irving in Halifax between November 20 and November 22 with one or both of those ministers, and what was discussed?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, the appropriate place to pursue the details of a criminal proceeding is in a court of law. That is what the rules of the House of Commons say. I would point out, as the table officers have written in “The House of Commons Compendium of Procedure”, that “Members are expected to refrain from discussing matters actively before the courts or under judicial consideration in order to guard those involved in a court action or judicial inquiry from any undue influence.” I would remind the hon. member that she is neither the prosecutor nor the defender.
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Speaker, I assure the minister that we are here on behalf of Canadians and we will continue to ask questions on behalf of Canadians.
In November 2015, the Minister of National Defence and the President of the Treasury Board attended a meeting at the Halifax International Security Forum. Representatives from Irving were at this forum.
Can one of these two ministers tell the House and all Canadians whether they met with representatives from Irving and, if so, what they talked about?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, the people who are charged with the administration of this particular case are, on the one side, the prosecution, the Public Prosecution Service of Canada. On the other side, they are competent defence counsel who have been retained by the defendant in the case. None of the members opposite have that role, and the rules of the House of Commons say that one should leave the work of the prosecution to the prosecutor and the work of the defence to the defence counsel, not to the floor of the House of Commons.
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Speaker, Canadians can see that we just asked whether two ministers met with representatives from Irving, and the minister himself made the connection to the Norman case.
Is there a relevant link between the two, yes or no? How come the minister is making a direct link to the Norman case?
Will the government finally release the evidence it has on this case, yes or no?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, in the question just asked, the hon. member has exposed his own subterfuge.
I would refer him to none other than Peter Van Loan, who said, “ It is deemed improper for a Member, in posing a question, or a Minister in responding to a question, to comment on any matter that is sub judice.” So said Peter Van Loan, and on this occasion he was right.
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, do you know why science is right? Because it works. Planes fly, vaccines protect against illness, and if I drop my pencil, it will fall on the ground because of gravity. We all agree on that.
However, when it comes time to listen to the 6,000 IPCC scientists who are saying that fundamental changes are absolutely needed, the Prime Minister turns a deaf ear. I will say it once again, the IPCC report is alarming.
Why are the Liberals still subsidizing oil companies and buying a pipeline with our money instead of actually fighting climate change?
Catherine McKenna LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change
Mr. Speaker, we have a plan for fighting climate change and growing the economy. We are putting a price on pollution because it has a cost. The cost to Canadians right now is extreme temperatures, hurricanes and very hot days, which actually cause deaths.
We also have a plan to grow our economy. We have clean technology companies, including in Quebec, that play an important role around the world. In fact, 13% of the world's clean technology companies are Canadian.
We punch above our weight.
We will continue to grow the economy and to fight climate change—
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, we agree that we need to put a price on pollution, but at the moment, the Liberal plan is not working. They are not doing enough.
IPCC scientists desperately want governments around the world to know that they need to take meaningful action to fight climate change. Here in Ottawa, though, the Liberals bought Trans Mountain with taxpayers' money, and the Conservatives want to bring energy east back to life, like a zombie.
This Liberal-Conservative pipeline coalition is quite the cabal. It feels like we are in a bad B movie. The only thing missing is a “sharknado”.
Do the Liberals realize that they are spineless and that they are putting our children's future at risk?
Catherine McKenna LiberalMinister of Environment and Climate Change
Mr. Speaker, we know we need to tackle climate change for our children and grandchildren. We also have an opportunity to create good jobs.
I am very proud to say that, since we have been in government, greenhouse gas emissions have dropped and jobs are on the rise. That is what we need to do for our children and grandchildren, and we will continue to do so.
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Speaker, the minister's mandate letter states, “It is important to acknowledge mistakes when we make them.” By now, surely the minister knows that it is wrong to say that there is no systemic discrimination in Canada. Systemic racism took its root in this country the moment white settlers came and began the colonization process. To claim that there is no systemic racism in Canada is a slap in the face of indigenous peoples.
Will the minister do the honourable thing, admit that he was wrong and apologize?
MulticulturalismOral Questions
Pablo Rodriguez Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism, Lib.
Mr. Speaker, Canadians understand that diversity is our strength. While we have much to celebrate, there are still real challenges for many people in the country.
Let me be very clear. Throughout history, and even today, there are people in communities who experience systemic racism, oppression and discrimination, preventing them from fully participating in our society. These experiences are still felt today by many Canadians, and we can and we must do better.
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Speaker, then why did the minister say that there was no systemic racism in Canada?
The new national anti-racism strategy comes directly from the report “Taking action against systemic racism and religious discrimination including Islamophobia”. At committee, Senator Murray Sinclair stated, “systemic racism is the racism that's left over after you get rid of the racists. Once you get rid of the racists within the justice system...you will still have racism perpetrated by the justice system.”
Senator Sinclair is absolutely correct. Has the minister even read the report?
MulticulturalismOral Questions
Pablo Rodriguez Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism, Lib.
Mr. Speaker, let me repeat once again. Throughout history, and even today, there are people in communities who experience systemic racism, oppression and discrimination that prevent them from fully participating in our society. This is exactly why we are conducting meetings across the country. I had the chance last week. We are going to have many more meetings in every province across the country to discuss this. We are acting on this.
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
Mr. Speaker, on November 4, 2015, the Liberal cabinet was sworn in. Within days, members of that cabinet were trying to halt the Davie Shipbuilding contract. The President of the Treasury Board told the House that as minister he was only copied on a letter from Irving.
Will the President of the Treasury Board confirm to the House whether he spoke to Irving during the election before he became minister?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, again, the opposition members are attempting to pursue dimensions of an outstanding legal proceeding. As the rules of the House make very clear, not only are ministers prevented from commenting on those proceedings, that prohibition also applies to the opposition. Distinguished former members of the House, like former minister Van Loan, has made it very clear that this line of questioning is inappropriate.
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
Mr. Speaker, CBC has reported that the member for Halifax West had several meetings with ministers with respect to the Irving shipyard. Will the President of the Treasury Board confirm which members of the Atlantic Liberal caucus spoke to him about the Davie Shipbuilding contract?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, again, the hon. gentleman is trying to prosecute a legal proceeding on the floor of the House of Commons. The rules of the House, including the work of the distinguished table in front of us, has made it very clear that this line of questioning is inappropriate.
With respect to the activities of lobbyists, of course we have a public registry in which all of that activity is recorded.
JusticeOral Questions
Richard Martel Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
Mr. Speaker, Vice-Admiral Norman never benefited personally. His focus has always been the well-being of his colleagues and the Royal Canadian Navy. He has had an exemplary career and deserves to retire in dignity with the recognition he has earned. He must have a fair trial. The Prime Minister must therefore release the evidence required for his defence.
Who or what group could have an interest?
What is the Liberal government hiding?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, once again, the rules of the House are very clear. Let me again quote the table officers who have said, “Members are expected to refrain from discussing matters before the courts, or under judicial consideration, in order to protect those involved in a court action or judicial inquiry against any undue influence through the discussion of the case.”
By pursuing the line of questioning, the opposition is potentially jeopardizing a legitimate legal procedure. We have in fact a very mature judicial system in the country and that system is more than capable of handling this matter.
JusticeOral Questions
Richard Martel Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
Mr. Speaker, Canadians want to know. The Liberal government is ruining the career of an officer who has been recognized for his distinguished service, and it will not say why. So much for an open and transparent government.
Will the Prime Minister stop dragging an honourable officer through the mud and give him the evidence required for his defence?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, the Public Prosecution Service of Canada is in charge of the Crown side of this matter. The defence is obviously in the hands of very distinguished defence counsel. We have an amazingly strong judicial system in the country, which is in fact the envy of the world. Canadians can trust that system properly administered to deliver justice and to make sure that justice is also seen to be done.
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman has become aptly skilled at being able to hide behind a corkscrew on this issue. The hon. gentleman also knows that convention around this place dictates that the government does not dictate to Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition what questions it asks in spite of the fact that it is uncomfortable.
The fact is that the Prime Minister is undermining the due process to which Vice-Admiral Norman and his defence team are entitled. What is the government trying to cover up?
Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Mr. Speaker, the words I have quoted for the opposition members are in fact the words of the Hon. Peter Van Loan, who is one of their own. He says, “ It is deemed improper for a Member, in posing a question, or a Minister in responding to a question, to comment on any matter that is sub judice.” Those are the words of Mr. Peter Van Loan. The opposition members would be well advised to take the advice of one of their own.
