Debates of Feb. 27th, 2019

Justice

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the Harper Conservatives, we take very seriously the institutions, the processes and the procedures that are fundamental to our system of justice, to the rule of law and to our very institutions. That is why we take great care when we take an unprecedented step like waiving solicitor-client privilege in this matter, like waiving cabinet confidentiality in this matter. I think it is important that Canadians get a chance to hear from a broad range of perspectives and that is exactly what they will be able to do.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, it is not unprecedented. Other prime ministers have waived full privilege when it related to investigations during their time in office.

For weeks, the Prime Minister was speaking for the former attorney general. Now he is deciding what is relevant. He is deciding what he is going to allow her to speak.

This is a very simple question. Why will he not waive privilege for the time period between when she lost her job and when she resigned from cabinet? What is he trying to hide?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the opposition seems to be shifting in its approach, because the justice committee and indeed the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner are very much focused on a very specific question that they are looking into.

We have waived privilege and we have waived cabinet confidentiality so that the former attorney general can speak fully and expansively to the matter under study. That is what Canadians expect. That is exactly what we are doing, because we understand how important it is to make sure that Canadians hear a diverse range of perspectives.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the former attorney general of Canada will be testifying before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights this afternoon, but that does not mean that we will get the whole story. Any actions or communications involving her that occurred after January 14, the day she was shuffled to Veterans Affairs, are off limits. Allowing her to tell only half the story could leave us with more questions than answers.

Why go to so much effort to control what she wants to say?

Why not allow her to talk about stepping down from cabinet, for example?

Is the Prime Minister's Office that afraid of what she has to say?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have confidence in the processes under way at the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights and the office of the Ethics Commissioner. That is why we waived the confidentiality requirement that was preventing the former attorney general from speaking fully at committee. We want her to share her perspective on the matter before the committee, and that is exactly what we have allowed her to do.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that she will not be able to say anything about what happened after January 14. For example, she will likely not be able to explain why, after she was shuffled, she wrote that it is a pillar of our democracy that our system of justice be free from all political interference.

She will not be able to explain why she resigned from cabinet and, most importantly, she will not be able to tell us what she said during her unprecedented appearance before cabinet following her resignation, which could shed a lot of light on the situation.

If the Prime Minister can give five different versions of the story, why will he not lift all of the constraints preventing the former minister of justice from telling her version?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we understand that the members opposite want to maximize the political impact of this matter. However, the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights and the Ethics Commissioner are looking into a very specific question.

We waived solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality to allow the former attorney general to speak fully to the matter in question. That is exactly what Canadians deserve, and that is what we did.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the former minister of justice has let it be known that she is still being silenced by the Prime Minister regarding the conversations that occurred between her and the Prime Minister's Office prior to her decision to step down as veterans affairs minister.

The Bob Fife story broke on February 7. On February 11, the Prime Minister said that her continued presence in cabinet was a sign that everything was hunky-dory. She quit the next day.

We know she was under intense pressure in that period. The simple questions are these: Who spoke to her from the PMO? What was said? Why is the Prime Minister refusing to let her tell her whole story?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the issue that is before the justice committee and before the Ethics Commissioner is one that Canadians want to see answers to and want to hear diverse perspectives on. That is why we waived cabinet confidentiality and solicitor-client privilege to enable the former attorney general to speak fully to the matter under study.

That is what Canadians expect and that is exactly what we have delivered. The principle of confidentiality, at cabinet and in solicitor-client privilege, is an important one.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, diverse perspectives, yes, there is truth and non-truth. I remember in Sunday school they said that what is whispered in the backrooms is going to get shouted from the rooftops.

This is the Prime Minister's opportunity to come clean. Stop hiding behind those legal-weasel mechanisms that are preventing the former minister from telling the whole truth. Will he waive the cabinet confidence on what was said to the member of Vancouver Granville in the lead-up to her resignation? Better yet, will the Prime Minister agree to testify about his interference in this case and come clean on this whole tawdry affair? Will he testify?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when the member opposite qualifies fundamental tenets of our justice system, of our cabinet government, as “weasel” words, we see the partisan political approach that he is desperate to take. On this side of the House, we respect our institutions, we respect the full integrity of our justice system and that is why we take very carefully and seriously the responsibility to defend those institutions and always will. That is why we took the important step of waiving in this matter the confidentiality.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is preventing the former attorney general from speaking. She specifically said that he is preventing her from speaking about her time when she was veterans affairs minister, about the conversations they had just before she resigned, specifically in Vancouver, and from what she told cabinet last week.

Why is it that the Prime Minister only wants his version of their interactions to be disclosed? What is he hiding?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the matter in question before the justice committee and before the Ethics Commissioner is focused on her time as Attorney General, and that is why when we went forward to waive confidentiality in regard to solicitor-client privilege, in regard to cabinet confidence, we took very seriously this unprecedented step, because we know that Canadians need to hear all perspectives on this. That is why we are moving forward in a responsible way that respects our institutions.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, if we need to hear all perspectives, then we need to hear her full perspective.

Will the Prime Minister do this very simple thing. Will he write a letter right now, he has just over an hour, and tell the former attorney general that she can speak about the time when she was veterans affairs minister, she can talk about their conversations in Vancouver before she resigned and she can talk about what she told cabinet last week. It is very simple. Will he do that right now?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the members opposite do not seem to want to talk anymore about the fact that every step of the way we stood up for good jobs across this country, we stood up for Canadian workers and we stood up for the growth of our economy, which we have been delivering on over the past three years, while at the same time defending our institutions, defending the independence of our judiciary and standing up for the rule of law. That is what Canadians expect of this government, of any government, and that is exactly what we are delivering on in every different instance.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, in her letter to the chair of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, the former attorney general of Canada said that she would not be able to speak freely about the interference by the Prime Minister and his cronies. If we understand correctly, everyone who has appeared before the committee has been able to tell everything they knew, except the former attorney general. She will be the only witness who cannot speak freely.

Could the Prime Minister just tell us why he is trying to muzzle her instead of freeing her to tell Canadians everything she knows?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the matter before the committee and the Ethics Commissioner is very specific. That is why we have enabled the former attorney general to speak fully to the matter currently under study by the committee. This is a significant step that we took. The decision to waive solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality is not one to be taken lightly. In this case, and for this important study, I think it was the right thing to do.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we on the opposition side are not making this up. It is the former attorney general herself, who remains a Liberal member sitting on that side of the House, who clearly said that she does not have free rein to speak before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. She will not be able to speak about what happened when she was veterans affairs minister. She will not be able to speak about what happened during the meetings in Vancouver before she resigned. She will not be able to speak about what happened during last week's cabinet meeting and Liberal caucus meeting after she resigned. She will not be able to speak her truth, because the Prime Minister does not want to give her—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have empowered the former attorney general to share all of her experiences and give full testimony regarding the matter before that committee.

I understand that the members opposite are using this matter to try to score political points. We on this side are interested in the rigorous process that is under way. That is what we always do, and what we will always do. We respect our institutions, while also standing up to protect the workers and businesses across this country that deserve to be supported, not attacked, as the opposition is doing.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the former attorney general wrote to the chair of the justice committee to indicate that the Prime Minister's order in council “falls short of what is required” in terms of sharing all relevant information.

The Prime Minister has just a little over an hour. If he truly has nothing to hide, then why will he not simply lift all solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality? What is he afraid of?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, defending our institutions, defending the rule of law and defending the independence and rigour of our justice system is something that we take very, very seriously. The decision to waive solicitor-client privilege and, indeed, cabinet confidentiality is not one to be taken lightly, but it is one that we took in this case because it is important that the justice committee and that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner are able to do their work. That is why we took that unprecedented step.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's order in council prevents the former attorney general from discussing her resignation from cabinet, the presentation that she gave to cabinet following her resignation and discussions that she had upon being fired as the Attorney General, all matters relevant to getting to the heart of the truth.

Why is the Prime Minister trying to silence his former attorney general? What is he afraid of?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite obviously misunderstands what the order in council is all about. It is actually about waiving solicitor-client privilege and waiving cabinet confidentiality so that the former attorney general can speak to—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!