Debates of March 20th, 2019

Interim Estimates

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am hoping to provide some very simple clarity, because all members have the right to know the question on which they are voting. If, for example, I cannot hear it, my privilege would be breached. I did not hear the question. I am allowed to hear the question on which I am voting. That is a privilege of all members of the House. We are honourable members and I am indicating, and I stood in my place, that I did not hear the question.

In fact, when I looked over and tried to get your attention, Mr. Speaker, I saw 30% of the Conservative caucus flooding in. It is not a question of who was in or who was out. The fact is that I could not hear the question. As a member, it is a right for me to hear the question so I can vote. I was sitting right here.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond to my hon. colleague's point of order. He indeed does have the right to hear the question. If he was in his seat, as I believe he was, when you began reading the question and he could not hear it, he could have asked you to repeat it.

However, what the Liberals do not have a right to do is that while you are repeating the question, to scurry in and think that they can become part of the votes. Once you begin the question, Mr. Speaker, at that precise moment only members of Parliament who are in their seats are eligible to vote. You could certainly repeat it 45 times until the hon. member has heard it. However, what we cannot have in this place, on a vote of confidence, are members who were not in their seats when you began the question, which you have already acknowledged you did, being allowed to participate in this vote of confidence.

We ask you, Mr. Speaker, to suspend the House until we can ascertain, with full confidence, who was in their seats on both sides when you began the question.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to address the issue of hearing. I occupy a pretty prime piece of real estate in the House. There are not many members who are as far away from the Chair as I am from you. I want to say very clearly that through this beautiful hearing piece, in crystal clear audio, I could very clearly hear the question coming from you.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

I am sorry that there is a problem with not hearing. Let me explain how this works, if I can have the attention of members, please.

I have two knobs that I turn up to get volume and I could not hear what is going on. There seems to be a problem and a delay. If I can hear members speak and if I do not have any interference, then I can hear the person without the microphone. However, I have been having a hard time hearing the individual members when they start speaking.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

My apologies, Mr. Speaker. I think I started before the light came on and then after that a bunch of ministers came in and started yapping over there and you could not hear me.

Referring to the member for Winnipeg North who started all this, the only noise that gave him a problem in hearing, if there was a problem, was the heartbeat of the government whip when he fully realized that he was in trouble, running, tripping and flipping up the hallway to get members out of the camp cot cover-up.

We need to carry on here. My hon. friend across the way spoke about hearing. I have a hearing problem as well. I joke about it myself. However, the member for Winnipeg North has clearly tried to make bad hearing an excuse. It was an opportunity for him to try to delay this to get members in the chamber. I can name six or seven ministers, but I will not, who came in after, plus the Prime Minister. Therefore, let us get on with this.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have been sitting here all morning. I left the House three times. I came back in and I waved off my vote because I had to be honest with the integrity of the House. I knew what was happening.

Those members knew when they came in. I ask them to please be honest with themselves, to have some integrity and name themselves with respect to what they are trying to do and to quit cheating.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am rising on a different point of order. Earlier today members opposite asked the member for Don Valley East to withdraw and apologize after a remark that was made in the House. Earlier today the member for St. John's East did not have his tie on and the member for Timmins—James Bay called him a big dummy. He should apologize and retract that statement.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if I ever called anyone a big dummy, I would certainly retract that. I would retract it if anyone heard me say that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, earlier today the Speaker made a lot of commentary in this place about the need for evidence on questions of privilege. You will forgive us, Mr. Speaker, if we require evidence that somehow somebody could not hear a question when a bunch of people rushed in here on a question of confidence and when the government likely did not have the numbers to support a vote.

In a week when we have seen the justice committee shut down, when we have seen member after member shut down in their ability to vote, we need to question the ability of this place to function with respect to our democracy.

I rise in support my colleague, the deputy House leader of the opposition party, in the need to suspend the House and ensure that there is evidence, so if you were ruling, Mr. Speaker, that somehow these people were not here and did not hear, that we as members could ensure our privilege were respected and that evidence that somehow they did not hear this was respected to ensure this vote and this place is functioning with respect to our democracy.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are governed by two broad principles that you have enforced throughout this Parliament.

First, each member of Parliament has the responsibility to be in the House to hear the questions before he or she can vote. That precedent has existed throughout the term of this Parliament.

Second, once that question begins, effectively the Speaker continues. As you will recall, we saw that in the tie vote on Bill C-10, where there was an attempt to obstruct the vote by certain members of the government, but the Speaker proceeded to what ultimately was a tie vote, which you, as Speaker, broke.

Those are the two principles that govern this vote and this situation.

I have been in the House for 15 years. I have never had a situation, which appears to have happened this time, where members of Parliament, who are obviously late for the vote, who have obviously not heard the entire question, are not being honest and forthright in saying, “I should not be voting on this question.”

That is why it is incumbent upon you, Mr. Speaker, to suspend the vote so we can determine who has the right to vote on this important vote, Motion No. 126, and we can ensure the integrity of this Parliament and parliamentary proceedings are maintained.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would indicate that if you were to review the tapes, you would see 51 Liberal members of Parliament had entered the chamber after you began reading the question.

Second, it has been indicated by those around the precinct that the audio was working and that your voice, Mr. Speaker, when reading the question, was audible at the time you began reading the question.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order to present a motion, seconded by the member for Perth—Wellington: That the point of order raised today regarding members of the Liberal caucus not hearing the question on Motion No. 126 in the opposed items in the interim estimates be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

I want to remind the hon. member that a motion cannot be moved on a point of order.

I have consulted with the Clerk. He pointed out that in chapter 12, on page 588, it states:

Members must be in the Chamber to hear the motion read and be in their assigned seats during the division in order for their votes to be recorded. Any Member entering the Chamber while the question is being put or after it has been put cannot have his or her vote counted.

The role of the Speaker is not to keep an eye out to see who is here and who is not. I will proceed with the question and leave it up to the honour of the individual members to identify whether they can vote or not.

Concurrence in Vote 1—National Energy Board

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

moved:

That Vote 1, in the amount of $20,634,125, under National Energy Board — Program expenditures, in the Interim Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2020, be concurred in.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

The question is on Motion No. 126. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

(The House divided on Motion No. 126, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #1200

Interim Estimates

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

I declare Motion No. 126 carried.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as I was a little late, I believe that my vote should not count.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I see that a number of members did the right thing. They did not vote if they did not hear the motion.

I would like to give my francophone colleague from Glengarry—Prescott—Russell an opportunity to withdraw his vote, out of respect for his constituents. He unfortunately seems to have voted even though he was not here when the motion was read out.