House of Commons Hansard #393 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was justice.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, this is about the credibility of the vote in this House. There were people who did not hear the vote called, because they were not in the House. It is perfectly legitimate for people outside not to have heard, but you began—
Interim EstimatesGovernment Orders
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Anthony Rota
The member for Timmins—James Bay is going to have to start over. I did not hear a thing he was saying.
The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, this is about the credibility of the vote. You began the vote and a number of people did not hear you because they were not in the House, which makes them ineligible to vote. You cannot say that in deference to people having a coffee or being on the phone or being outside of the House, you will start over so they can come in now. They were not in their seats when it began, so you have to continue. Anyone who came in after you continued does not have the right to vote. Those are the rules under which we work.
Interim EstimatesGovernment Orders
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Anthony Rota
The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay has a very good point, and I am fine with that. He had started the question.
There was a point of order brought in. I conferred with my table officers, and they recommended that I hear what the point of order was.
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Mr. Speaker, further to that point of order, I would point out that it took approximately 15 seconds, or at least 10 seconds, to acknowledge the point of order from the hon. member. I think if you check the record, Mr. Speaker, it would be clear. You did confer with your staff. You started reading the question.
These members should be deemed ineligible to vote, because they were not in this chamber when you started reading the question. That delay is relevant to the point of order.
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Mr. Speaker, this goes to the heart of what we do in this place. These are confidence votes. We have been here now for just about 24 hours, probably every 30 minutes offering the Liberal government an option to get out of here and to finish up these confidence votes.
It is not our problem that the Liberals are out there sleeping on the cots, having naps and hanging out at camp cover-up, when we are coming here, possibly having more members than they have and getting ready to defeat them on a vote. When members are coming in while you are reading, as has been identified by my colleagues and colleagues from the NDP, it is very serious. It has happened a number of times over the last 24 hours.
I would ask that we do not continue with the vote until we identify precisely who walked in. We will get the tape if we have to of who walked in while you were reading the vote so that those individuals will not be allowed to vote. Liberals are not above the rules in this place.
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to assure you that my hearing is perfectly fine. Second, I would like to say that having a mother who had a hearing impairment, any jokes about hearing impairment I find personally offensive. Third, I was sitting in my seat attempting to listen to you, but the noise of people coming in from the other side actually hindered my ability to hear. I was not hearing what was said, and I was very appreciative to have a chance to try to hear it again. Last, I make the point about the noise of the people coming in from the other side very cautiously, because I know it is also against the rules of the House to ever indicate whether someone is present or absent in the House.
Therefore, on all those accounts, I would appreciate, in fairness, and to the importance of parliamentary democracy, that we hear the question and we are allowed to vote.
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Mr. Speaker, further to the point of order that has been raised, on our side, we have identified 41 Liberal members of Parliament who entered after you began reading the question.
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Mr. Speaker, first of all, I think it is important to remember that we have been here for some time. Part out of concern that there is one set of rules for one set of people and another set of rules for other people, which is the point some people have been trying to make for a very long time now, I think it is important that in our proceedings, we do not confirm that. I would think that the government would not want to confirm that in this proceeding.
Mr. Speaker, I also would like to draw your attention to some of the Speaker's previous attitudes about noise in the chamber. I recall, particularly last June, when the government House leader was attempting to move a closure motion on a motion the Liberals had on the floor, that there were members at that time who were trying to raise points of order and be recognized by the Speaker. I was trying to raise a point of order, and I was not being heard. The Speaker at that time said that things would proceed. In fact, despite a lot of noise and people complaining about an inability to hear the proceedings, the Speaker's decision at that time was that the proceedings would stand and continue with business as usual. Therefore, I think there is some precedent for not restarting, and if we are going to pick up where we left off, I think it is very important that members who were not in the chamber not be deemed to have been in the chamber, when they were not.
Interim EstimatesGovernment Orders
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Anthony Rota
I am sorry, the hon. member does not have a tie. I cannot acknowledge him.
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Speaker, to refute the similar point of order by the member for Don Valley East—
Interim EstimatesGovernment Orders
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Anthony Rota
There is something wrong with the sound system. I cannot hear anything.
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Speaker, a member just made the case that the member's presence in the House, or not in the House, cannot be mentioned in the House. However, it is your role to determine when a member is in the House for the purposes of a vote.
We are in the middle of a confidence vote right now. By our count, over 40 Liberal members were not in the House—
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
This is a very serious matter. This is a matter of the confidence of this House. It is up to you, Mr. Speaker, to determine whether these people were in the House to determine who can vote on a matter of confidence before this House.
Whether or not this House continues is at stake. Mr. Speaker, with respect, I hope you get this right.
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Mr. Speaker, it may not be an issue of the rules, but it certainly is an issue of the integrity of this place. It has been my understanding during the 11 years I have been in this place that as a matter of integrity, those members who know that they were not here when you started to read will voluntarily stand up later and say that their vote should not be counted.
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Mr. Speaker, much like the member for Don Valley West, I was in my seat when you attempted to begin to read—
Interim EstimatesGovernment Orders
The Assistant Deputy Speaker Anthony Rota
I am sorry, the sound system is not working. I cannot hear. It is important that I hear the question.
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Mr. Speaker, much like the member for Don Valley West, I was in my seat. I was unable to hear even the number of the vote or the very beginning words. If I am not able to hear that, I would kindly request that you begin again, as previous Speakers have done in this set of votes. There is precedent for this already today.
The purpose is so we can hear the question, and then all members present will have been able to have heard the question, as the Speaker previously ruled today.
Chris Warkentin Conservative Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB
Mr. Speaker, we depend on you to administer the House.
What I would recommend is that we suspend the House until such time as you are able to determine, through the video, two things. Number one is if you were able to be heard while you were reading the question. If the audio was working, we will be able to confirm that.
I am being heckled by the Liberal members right now, but I do have two points, that being the first point. Second, the video will also determine who was here when you started that question.
Mr. Speaker, you have already ruled that you had started the question. The Speaker has ruled many times, even over the last 24 hours, that if members are not in the chamber when the question begins, they are ineligible to vote.
We would ask that we suspend the House until such time as we are all confident as to who was in the House when that happened and whether the audio was working at that time.
Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC
Mr. Speaker, on the point of order my colleague was just making, we had just finished one vote, so there were a number of MPs who were counted as having voted in the last vote. It should give a good idea of the members who were sitting in their seats.
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Speaker, the suggestion by the last MP who spoke is not credible, because on Motion No. 125, I entered when you began the vote, and I took my seat, but I did not vote, because you had begun. The people who were necessarily sitting in their seats for Motion No. 125 does not count for Motion No. 126.
We respect the principle that once you begin the question, the vote has begun. That is when we saw many people come in and sit down. I would refer you, Mr. Speaker, to the people who came in after it began to ask them to identify themselves, as I did for Motion No. 125, so that we can carry on, knowing who is eligible to vote and who is not.
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Mr. Speaker, in other fora there is often a mechanism by which we could propose a motion to tile the doors. I see on the government side there is still a lot of coming and going, more coming than going in this case.
I wonder if there is a mechanism by which we could tile the doors so members are not leaving and entering during a discussion about how many members are in the chamber. It further muddies the water.