Debates of Nov. 24th, 2020

Fisheries and Oceans—Main Estimates, 2020-21

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, conservation underpins everything we do at DFO. No decision will be made that will affect the conservation of the species. We need to ensure that it is sustainable for the long term. Nobody wants to do anything that will change that, including commercial harvesters and indigenous people.

Conservation will always be the number one priority as we make these decisions going forward.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Madam Chair, does the minister support the establishment of a second fishing authority, yes or no?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, as I have said many times, these are difficult negotiations. We are continuing to work with first nations to ensure we implement the fishery. We are working with them now on their fishery plans. A number of them have been given to us and we are working in negotiations with them.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Madam Chair, is the minister currently negotiating the establishment of a second independent fishing authority, yes or no?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I cannot prejudge what comes out of negotiations. Nor do I negotiate in public. These negotiations are ongoing at the moment. We will do everything we can to ensure that the right is implemented, but also ensure that conservation is our top priority.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Madam Chair, could the minister tell us, yes or no, is she in favour of the establishment of a second independent fishing authority?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, the Supreme Court was very clear that first nations have a right to a moderate livelihood fishery. We are working with first nations to ensure we will be able to implement that right. That is a priority for this government in regard to reconciliation. Conservation will always be the number one priority as we go forward.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Madam Chair, I will ask one more time because I really feel this is important and Canadians are wondering, from coast to coast. They want clarity around this issue. No one is questioning the indigenous people's right to fish, at all. What this comes down to, though, is this: Is the minister in favour of establishing a second, independent fishing authority?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, we have been working expeditiously to reach agreements, with conservation as a top priority in these conversations. I understand that the unknown is very difficult for people. I understand that it is a challenge when we will not negotiate in public. I know everybody wants to know what is happening, but we will not prejudge the outcomes of those negotiations. We are, right now, working with first nations to make sure that we are able to implement that right.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Madam Chair, we have heard testimony at committee from indigenous leaders, representatives from the commercial fishery, academics, scientists, former DFO employees and politicians, including the Liberal premier of Nova Scotia. We have even heard concerns from the minister's own caucus colleague, a former chair of the fisheries committee, the hon. member for Malpeque. The one common thread among them is that they are unsatisfied with her efforts.

Does the minister think she is doing a good job solving this crisis?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, this is a very complex issue. If there were a simple solution it would have been had 21 years ago. A number of issues within issues are involved. We are continuing to work with first nations to make sure we implement this right.

The previous government, in 10 years, did not sign one agreement with first nations. We already have two signed, and we are working diligently to make sure there are more. I will continue to do that hard work.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, 11 months ago, the Prime Minister mandated the fisheries minister to make new investments to fight aquatic invasive species.

When will the fisheries minister finally make those new investments to fight invasive species?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, our government understands the importance of protecting biodiversity and the quality of Canadian waters. As such, we are focused on coordinating our efforts to prevent the spread of aquatic invasive species in Canada. This is so important that the Prime Minister included it in my mandate letter, as the member says. Management of aquatic invasive species is a responsibility that the federal government shares with provincial and territorial governments. We will continue to work closely with them and our U.S. counterparts to make sure that we are doing everything we can to address the threat of aquatic invasive species.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, five months ago, on June 2, the fisheries minister stated that these investments were imminent and that she would have more to say “soon.”

When will the fisheries minister finally make new investments in the fight against invasive species?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, as I said, we are continuing to work with our provincial and territorial counterparts. We recognize that aquatic invasive species are a real threat to our ecosystems. More has to be done. We are working diligently to make sure that we address the concern of these aquatic invasive species. This is hard work that we are committed to. I am going to make sure that we do the work necessary in order to address the concerns.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, as we have learned, a Liberal's “soon” could very well be never or too late, as is the case for Shuswap Lake, where an infestation of invasive clams was confirmed just two months ago.

When will the fisheries minister finally make investments to fight against aquatic invasive species?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, as I said, the Prime Minister has put in my mandate letter the work to fight aquatic invasive species. We are working with our provincial and territorial counterparts to make sure that we address these challenges. I know that it is a difficult situation with these aquatic invasive species in our lakes, rivers and oceans. We need to do everything possible. This government is committed to making sure that we address the problem. We are continuing to do that work.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, as this latest discovery of an infestation of aquatic invasive species has shown the words of this Liberal minister, and the three other Liberal fisheries ministers who preceded her, are completely ineffective in preventing the spread of invasive species. Canadians deserve better.

For five years now, I have been pressing the government to act against the spread of aquatic invasive species and the damage that they will inflict on B.C.'s ecology and economy if not prevented. The Commissioner of the Environment has also warned this Liberal government, as did the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans in a study last year. Both reports concluded that preventing the proliferation of aquatic invasive species is a fraction of the cost of trying to manage or eradicate them. This minister and government sit on their hands while permanent damage is being inflicted on the aquatic ecosystems of the communities that depend on them.

When will the fisheries minister take invasive species seriously and deliver resources for effective prevention?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for his intervention.

I know how hard this is. I know what a difficult situation it is with aquatic invasive species. We are working with our provincial and territorial counterparts to address the concern. We know that it is significant in some areas. We have been working on a number of initiatives, and we will continue to do that.

I will commit to making sure that we do everything possible to address the concern of aquatic invasive species. We have invested $43.8 million over five years to prevent the introduction and spread of aquatic invasive species, but we know that more needs to be done.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, Oceana has recently released its “Fishery Audit 2020”, which found that Canada's fisheries have declined under the Liberal government.

Under this government's tenure, the number of healthy fish populations decreased by almost eight percentage points from 2017 until 2020. To make matters worse, no comprehensive or meaningful rebuilding plans were released in 2020, and Fisheries and Oceans Canada only delivered on 14% of its published priorities.

Why has the fisheries minister failed to deliver on the other 86% of her priorities?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, we welcome Oceana's fisheries audit, and we will be reviewing its recommendations, but our government has made several key investments that are already showing progress toward sustainable fisheries and strengthening our oceans' protections.

The department is continuing to complete rebuilding plans for priority stocks. Since 2018, DFO has completed rebuilding plans for six of these 19 stocks, and a further two have improved to the point that they are no longer in the critical zone. For the remaining priority stocks without rebuilding plans, DFO has specific fisheries management measures in place. These measures are going to ensure that the limited fishing of the stocks does not compromise the rebuilding.

We know that the fisheries rebuilding plans are important, and that is one of the reasons why we put them in the modernized Fisheries Act. We are going to continue to work to make sure that we are rebuilding stocks.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, federal fishing regulations have severely restricted access and opportunities for salmon fishing in B.C., especially around Vancouver Island, by using anglers as scapegoats in an attempt to look like salmon are being protected. Well-recognized organizations such as the Sport Fishing Advisory Board, which has worked with DFO for decades, recommended mark-selective fisheries, which would have a near-zero impact on stocks of concern yet would provide opportunity and economic relief in the area.

Can the minister provide an estimate of how much revenue has been lost due to the closure of the public recreational fisheries on the west coast in 2019-20?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Chair, our government acknowledges the challenges being faced by Pacific salmon fishery participants, including recreational anglers. We are also carefully considering requests for a mark-selective hatchery-origin chinook and mark-selective fishery opportunities. Further consultations are planned to seek input on benefits and costs of these approaches as well as further discussions.

As I said earlier, this is not something I am averse to. It is something in which we want to make sure that we have the right path forward, and that is what we are working on.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance and to the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Madam Chair, I will begin my 15 minutes of questions with the minister on the issue of the moderate livelihood fishery.

Obviously, in Nova Scotia in recent months, this issue has been the subject of much coverage and controversy. When I speak with those who are members of indigenous communities who want to exercise their right to a moderate livelihood, it is clear that they rely on the law we adopted in Canada in the treaties of the 1760s. Of course, the right was embedded more fully and with some more clarity in the Marshall decision of the late nineties.

One of the things I find to be a major source of frustration is that when I talk to people independently, either indigenous fishers or commercial fishers, a lot of them want the same things. They have grown accustomed to fishing alongside one another. They both, for the most part, recognize the existence of the right to take part in a moderate livelihood fishery. I find it frustrating because my career before politics was in litigation, where two sides would come together completely in disagreement on virtually everything, yet we would often come to a resolution.

In the present instance, I hear that there is an appetite to recognize a moderate livelihood, but it is peppered with fears. There are sincerely held fears among commercial fishers about the ability to practise their fishery, because they are worried about the conservation outcomes that may arise if there is increased effort placed on the fishery. They are subject to rules that have been built up over decades. There are people in my office saying that they want to support increased participation among indigenous fishers, but they are worried for their livelihoods.

I am curious if the minister can offer some comfort or commentary around the subject of conservation and the importance that she, as minister, will place on that very important principle as any kind of a framework is developed to implement the right to a moderate livelihood.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Chair, at DFO every decision we make is based on conservation. It is the number one priority. We want to make sure that the fishery is sustainable for the long term, for generations to come.

I will say that this is a goal shared by commercial harvesters as well as indigenous fishers. This is something that we all agree on. What we need to find is the path forward. I understand that, in coastal communities, our commercial harvesters are worried for their livelihoods.

We need to make sure that we are not increasing fishing efforts. That is one of the top priorities for me, as well as making sure that conservation objectives are met. These are tricky negotiations, as I have said. They are full of bumps along the way, but we are committed to making sure that we find the path forward to implement the moderate livelihood fishery, address the concerns of commercial harvesters, make sure conservation is the number one priority and that there is not an increased fishing effort.