House of Commons Hansard #37 of the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Chair, the member's question reflects that she does not understand that it is not me who makes those rules; it is local public health.

The local public health officer of Windsor-Essex took incredibly brave and strong measures to protect not only the temporary foreign workers, but the residents of Windsor-Essex. Asking people to work and come into contact with others while they are positive with COVID-19 is not a safe practice according to the medical officer of health of Windsor-Essex, so he implemented—

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Chair, I will speak for five or 10 minutes, and then I will ask my colleague, the Minister of Health, a question.

Patty, when you come back, you will certainly be welcomed by the people of Thunder Bay—

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member needs to address all questions and comments to the Chair. If he wants to have a personal conversation, he will have to do it on the side.

The hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

November 26th, 2020 / 10:30 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Chair, thank you for those words of wisdom.

Let me start by saying that obviously the wrench that has been thrown into our financial predictions, both in terms of health care and for all ministries of the government, has been COVID-19.

The opposition has been very vocal in criticizing our government for delays: being slow to do things, to recognize asymptomatic transmission, to close the borders, to advocate the use of masks and rapid testing and, most recently, to distribute vaccines to the people who need them. I think these accusations are unfair.

No one in the world predicted this pandemic, and certainly no one in the world was prepared for this pandemic. As of late, we have all become armchair epidemiologists, and for all those armchair epidemiologists out there, let me fill them in a bit in terms of the history of infectious disease. We are on chapter 12 of a very long book on infectious disease. Certainly infectious disease in the past has a long history. Infectious disease in the past was exceedingly important.

For example, in 541, there was the plague of Justinian. At its height, that epidemic killed more than 5,000 people per day in Constantinople.

In the 1300s, the Black Death or the plague killed between 30% and 60% of the European population.

In 1812 it was typhus. When Napoleon retreated from Moscow, typhus killed more people than the Russian army did.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, the white plague, tuberculosis, killed an estimated one-third of the English population.

Of course in 1918, Spanish influenza, which was a particularly virulent strain of influenza, affected an estimated 50% of the population at the time and resulted in 80 million to 100 million deaths, which was 3% to 5% of the world's population.

Of note, as with COVID, infectious disease disproportionately affects the poorest people in our society. Tuberculosis and typhoid at one time were epidemics in wealthy countries in the northern hemisphere, but now have become rare in those countries. However, they remain as problems in many developing countries.

Generally, as a result of the industrial revolution and increased prosperity in developing countries, infectious diseases have been a lot less of a concern in the northern hemisphere and northern countries; however, they remain endemic in many Third World countries.

As a result of the industrial revolution and the increased prosperity in northern, more affluent societies, we have developed the belief that pandemics will no longer affect us, which has certainly proved wrong.

Before SARS and before COVID, there was, I would point out, HIV/AIDS, which was a pandemic, albeit a very slow-moving one, that affected multiple countries around the world.

It was SARS that really woke up the world to the threat of infectious disease, both in terms of morbidity and mortality, but also in terms of their effects on the economy.

In 2005, in response to SARS, the World Health Organization approved and passed the international health regulations, or IHRs, that gave the WHO the authority to advise countries, including Canada, on what measures to take to limit the spread of infectious diseases among countries.

What has happened in recent years goes a long way in explaining why not just Canada, but the whole world reacted as it did to COVID, and why there was the slowness in reaction.

Let me start off by giving a brief history of recent infectious diseases in the world. H5N1 was in 1997 in Hong Kong. There was a concern it would become a pandemic, but did not. H7N7 was in the Netherlands, which was another influenza outbreak. Again, there was a concern it would become a pandemic and it did not. H9N2 was in Hong Kong and it mostly affected children. There was a concern it was going to become a pandemic and it did not. H7N9 was the same thing.

In 2009 to 2010, there was H1N1. There was an outbreak and it did go global, but WHO was heavily criticized for having overreacted and having been too quick to hit the panic button. In 2013, MERS was another coronavirus. There was a concern it would become a pandemic, but it did not. There were over 50 outbreaks of Ebola in Africa. Again, a highly infectious disease with a very high rate of mortality that really exceeds COVID-19. Again, a concern it would become a pandemic and never did.

This is really important to remember. There were numerous outbreaks of infectious disease where there was a genuine concern they would become pandemics. They never did. WHO was criticized for overreacting, being too fast to hit the panic button.

When COVID came along in December 2019, people were a little hesitant to react. That is for a reason. There were all these other outbreaks of diseases that never went anywhere. WHO was heavily criticized for overreacting in the past with something that did not turn out to be a major concern. That, in part, explains its reaction.

As it turns out, they were wrong. We were wrong, they were wrong and everyone was wrong. It certainly explains the mentality and the reason for both our Public Health Agency and for our Ministry of Health being hesitant to react. The vast majority of times, it turned out to be nothing.

As for the measures we have taken in reaction to the pandemic, it is important to consider the role of the international health regulations in the response, and also the prevailing attitude of people in public health who are in positions of authority with respect to coercive measures and their negative interpretations of the necessity of coercive measures with respect to controlling a disease.

The international health regulations are akin to a treaty, which the World Health Assembly adopted with the input of Canada and with the approval of Canada. In the international health regulations, it specifically requires countries to adopt measures that are least restrictive to international travel. This was largely in response to—

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member has already used up 10 minutes. I would ask him to get to the questions.

The hon. member.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Chair, as a public health practitioner for 35 years, I know there is a lot of concern among health practitioners, front-line workers. I worked in an emergency room for a lot of years. What are we doing in terms of PPE?

Globally, I think over 8,000 health care workers have died as a result of COVID-19. Obviously, in Canada, despite all the criticism, we have done a little better. A lot of people in the health care profession have not been infected, but what has our government done with respect to PPE? How much money have we put into it? What did we have and when did we start to address the problem of PPE for health care workers?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Thunder Bay—Superior North Ontario

Liberal

Patty Hajdu LiberalMinister of Health

Madam Chair, I thank the member for the interesting history of pandemics. He is absolutely right. Countries have abided by the international health regulations. Also, he is right that Canada was one of the creators of the international health regulations, which guide countries in their actions when there are outbreaks.

The member is also right in that this is the public health crisis of a lifetime; the big one, as people in public health say. It is unprecedented. I am certain that the international health regulations will be reviewed as a result of COVID-19. I look forward to that review should I be so privileged to take part in it.

With respect to his question on health care providers, the member is right. In the early stages of the pandemic, we did have some supplies in the national emergency stockpile, but as Dr. Tam said, we had seen one pandemic—

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Chair, at the forefront of everybody's mind is the vaccine. I certainly have been advocating 100% that the answer to this problem is the vaccine. I know we have been heavily criticized for the fact that we do not have the capacity to make vaccines. However, as I sit on the health committee, I 1know 100% that we have invested in organizations, companies and universities that have been trying to develop a vaccine and also trying to develop the capacity.

Could you tell us what investments our government has made both in developing a vaccine and producing the vaccine?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

I cannot, but I will ask the minister to answer.

The hon. minister.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Chair, I will finish my answer to the last question, because it is important.

In fact, early on we realized as a country that we were going to need to two things: one, boost domestic production of PPE; and two, act incredibly rapidly and acquire PPE from around the world in what the Deputy Prime Minister has called the “wild west”. That is exactly what we did. We left nothing on the table. We spent billions of dollars to procure PPE and to stimulate domestic production to protect health care workers and other health care professionals.

It is paying off. We have a fairly stable supply of PPE. There are still shortages with specific types of PPE, but we work very closely with provinces and territories to fill those gaps, and we are in a much stronger position now.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Carol Hughes

The member has one minute left for the question and the answer.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Chair, at the health committee, the minister talked about her personal relationships and personal conversations with CEOs and people in the vaccine companies whom she felt have assisted and will assist Canada in getting the vaccines sooner. This was really interesting and also really important.

Can the minister please go over some of those conversations and how she thinks they will help us get the vaccine faster?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Chair, all ministers involved in procurement and in the COVID response, which is most of us, have had conversations with CEOs of pharmaceutical and PPE producers. In fact, we have pulled out all the stops, sometimes in very unusual circumstances, to get what Canadians need to respond to COVID-19.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Chair, I will be taking the first five minutes and the member for Edmonton Strathcona will take the remaining 10 minutes.

Dr. Henry stated, “The decriminalization of people who are in possession of drugs for personal use is the next logical and responsible step we must take to keep people alive and connect them to the health and social supports they need.” She is calling for a model similar to the one used in Portugal, which decriminalized drug possession in 2001.

Will the minister follow Dr. Henry's evidence-based medical advice by fully adopting a health approach to drug addiction, and decriminalize simple possession?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 p.m.

Thunder Bay—Superior North Ontario

Liberal

Patty Hajdu LiberalMinister of Health

Madam Chair, I thank the member opposite for her passion regarding equity and supports for people who use substances. As she knows, I am also passionate about that. That is why I have spent so much time speaking to Dr. Henry; Dr. Daly, with Vancouver Coastal Health, whom she may know; and Mayor Kennedy, who has been doing some work in this area.

We will continue to be there for people who use substances. We will continue to provide communities and the provinces with the tools they need to combat problematic substance use and support people who use substances so that, first, they can get access to supports and services and, second, they can receive fair and ethical treatment no matter where they live.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Chair, all of the people the minister mentioned are advocating for decriminalization. While it is not a silver bullet, it is definitely an important measure to help stem the tide of overdose deaths. However, the truth is that Canada is faced with three crises: the pandemic, the opioid crisis and a national housing crisis.

In my riding, the Downtown Eastside is a strong, caring and resilient community, but we are faced with one of the most deadly public health emergencies of our lifetime. To date, more than 1,000 people in B.C. have died of an overdose in 2020. We are seeing an average of five overdose deaths a day in B.C.

Dr. Henry said, “Now more than ever, we must remove the stigma of drug use and remove the shame people feel, which keeps them from seeking help or telling friends and family.” The path forward to help remove the stigma is to decriminalize.

Back in July, the member for Vancouver Kingsway and I wrote to the minister and urged her to implement a nationwide exemption, under section 56 of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, to the prohibition on simple possession in section 4, as an urgent interim health measure. Yesterday, the City of Vancouver unanimously passed a motion to request the federal government to decriminalize simple possession of illicit drugs for personal use.

Will the minister act on those requests?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Chair, it has been a pleasure to work with Mayor Kennedy as he seeks to solve problematic substance use in Vancouver. I have been to the downtown east side a number of times and therefore in the member's riding. It is always an honour to visit, especially to talk with the front-line workers who work so compassionately with people who use substances or have experienced extreme trauma in their lives. I have committed to the mayor to explore any and all tools that can help with the City's work to decrease the stigma for people who use substances and increase access to a number of projects we have funded, including safer supply projects and safer consumption site supports.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Chair, now they are asking for the government to decriminalize.

On top of the opioid crisis, the downtown east side has the highest number of COVID-19 cases in Vancouver. To prevent the spread of COVID-19, we have been told to wash our hands and socially distance. Van East has the largest homeless encampment in the country. These health measures are next to impossible for those who are homeless or live in overcrowded or substandard housing with shared bathrooms.

Will the minister support the province's request for a fifty-fifty cost-shared COVID-19 housing measure as a key component to address both of these health emergencies?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Chair, I know my colleague, the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, has worked extensively with the province of B.C. to address the extreme shortage of housing, has funded a number of affordable housing projects in partnership with the province and continues the work, including through the $1 billion rapid housing project announced recently.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Chair, through you I will start by asking the minister a series of questions about my home province of Alberta.

The federal government allocated $3 billion to the provinces to help provide extra pay for essential health care workers, emergency responders and other crucial employees. Has Alberta received the federal funding to support the essential health care workers who are not just risking their lives on our behalf every day, but are also having to fight their own provincial government, which is tearing up contracts, laying off essential health care workers and failing to listen to our health care specialists?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 p.m.

Thunder Bay—Superior North Ontario

Liberal

Patty Hajdu LiberalMinister of Health

Madam Chair, yes indeed. The federal government provided essential workers with a wage top-up of up to $3 billion for the provinces and territories to address the need to ensure that workers, especially vulnerable workers in health care settings and other front-line workers, received pay that reflected their duties and the care they place on those duties. That money was provided on September 30.

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Chair, can the minister tell me if these funds have been spent?

Health—Main Estimates, 2020-21Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Madam Chair, no, I cannot account for provincial spending. All I can say is that the safe restart agreement required the provinces and territories to move forward on a number of measures and the—