House of Commons Hansard #93 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was guns.

Topics

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I thank the member for the intervention. We will continue to investigate what is going on.

We will continue for now. I would ask members to inform the Chair if there are technical problems with the interpretation or with our Zoom system.

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7:05 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, do I start over or continue where I left off?

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7:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

The hon. member has at least 30 seconds.

Criminal CodeGovernment Orders

June 21st, 2022 / 7:05 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, I was saying that I do not understand why the government does not work with the opposition to table bills that will really make a difference.

I was talking about a definition for an assault weapon. That is important. Taking action is a Bloc proposal. We have a lot of proposals like that. Every time I rise, I am thrilled to list the Bloc's intelligent and well-thought-out proposals. I often sound brilliant when I do that, but our extraordinary research team really deserves a lot of credit.

Then there is organized crime. The people shooting at each other in Montreal are organized. They are in a gang. They want to eliminate the other gang and take over the neighbourhood. We have all watched plenty of movies and can imagine what motivates them to go and shoot someone in a restaurant, in front of children. The tragedy is that this is not a movie on Netflix. This really happens. We do not have to accept that.

As elected members of the federal Parliament, it is not only our duty but our moral obligation to act on this. We are debating Bill C‑21, which will affect 5% of the firearms being used. It is a small step forward, but it does not address the real problems. Lately, during almost every question period, my colleague from Rivière-du-Nord has been asking the Minister of Public Safety when he will create a list of recognized criminal entities.

Something similar exists for terrorist groups. It gives police something to work with. It gives prosecutors tools. It makes it easier to bring people to justice. We control the laws. We have the freedom to do that.

Why not give ourselves this gift? I do not understand. Who are we afraid of? Those are the questions we need to be asking ourselves.

We are dealing with a government that will go to the media and say it is taking action on guns by passing Bill C-21, when really, the bill does absolutely nothing. I can say this because every time my colleague from Rivière-du-Nord sits down after a question in question period, that is the answer he gets. He is told every time that the government has introduced Bill C-21 and that it hopes the Bloc Québécois will support its passage. Of course the Bloc Québécois is going to vote in favour, but we need more than that. We need to tackle the root cause of the problem.

We are dealing with a government that is all about image. It does not care about tackling problems. Just look at the passport crisis we are currently facing. That is the perfect example. How long have we been talking about that? Can the government do something about it, put resources into it, open the offices on weekends?

The minister stands up and says that the offices are open on weekends, but people are telling me over the phone that the offices are not open on weekends. Then we are not supposed to get upset. For 10 years, we have been calling for employment insurance reform. What is happening? Nothing. Last fall, fathers still had to prove they were using food banks in order to get benefits. Cuts are still being made to the guaranteed income supplement. The Liberals are going to stop making cuts in July. The machine is too big. No one knows how to press the button without messing up the entire calculation. It is going to take another cheque. It is totally ridiculous. Despite the inflation we are seeing right now, the government refuses to increase the old age security pension. I could go on at length.

I asked a question about support for agriculture today. It has been more than a month since people from agricultural organizations proposed practical solutions. They are not asking for money to be thrown at them. They are showing up with a list of solutions. More than a month has gone by, and there is still no response. It is radio silence. The management of the border during the COVID‑19 pandemic is another issue. I could go on until midnight. Are we sitting until midnight? I am game.

Let us come back to the bill. This bill has positive elements. Earlier, the parliamentary secretary spoke about red-flag and yellow-flag provisions. We are aware of these provisions, and that is why we will support the bill. At the same time, there are contradictions. Bill C‑21 increases the sentence for gun traffickers in an attempt to impress the public, whereas Bill C‑5 reduces the sentences.

We say that we agree with reducing sentences, but this is not the time to reduce them for crimes committed with a firearm. The response is that, in any event, it does not change criminals' minds.

The same argument does not hold from one bill to the other, which I have a hard time understanding. Everyone in the Bloc Québécois is reaching out to the government. We want to crack down on real organized crime, the real criminals, the thugs who traffic firearms and terrorize our cities. There is work to do and we are prepared to do it. Until then, we will vote in favour of Bill C‑21 because it is a step in the right direction.

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7:10 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, the member talked about a wide variety of issues. I am not allowed the time to address them all in the form of a question, but I do have a very basic question that I have posed before.

I am glad to see that Bloc members are going to be supporting this legislation. However, the degree to which they want to see the legislation pass and get to committee did surprise me earlier.

We know that the Conservatives flat out object to the legislation before us. They are going to battle the legislation. The only reason the bill will pass to committee is because the NDP agreed to have time allocated so that at least it could get out of second-reading stage.

Could the member explain why, if the Bloc members believe in handgun bans, they believed that it was not necessary to try to get the bill rushed to the committee stage? Otherwise, who knows when it would even get there?

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7:10 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, the answer is, quite simply, no. We are systematically opposed. We have supported time allocation in some very specific circumstances, but in general, we condemn the practice of wasting time with obstruction tactics on both sides of the House.

Both sides of the House share responsibility, since the government members do not have enough respect to consult with and talk to the opposition members. We learned today that the House is scheduled to sit until midnight again tomorrow, but the Bloc Québécois was not consulted. If the government wants us to collaborate, then it needs to show some respect.

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7:10 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague from the Bloc for his speech.

The member talked about some of the issues that the government has been dealing with, and spoke in terms of illusion. I would suggest that, right now, we are a country in chaos. Even the most basic government services are being bungled by this government: passports, immigration, border issues at Roxham Road, the issues with Afghanistan and Ukraine, inflation, affordability and, not least, political interference, according to a news story that came to light today.

This is a complicated issue that requires complicated solutions. Is there any confidence, on the part of the member who just spoke, in the government's ability to deal with this issue effectively? The issue is guns, gangs, illegal criminals and the illegal importation of guns that are used for violent crimes. Does the member have any confidence in the government's ability to actually find an effective solution through Bill C-21, or is this simply smoke and mirrors and just another way of the government mishandling something?

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7:10 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, that is a bit of a trick question that I got from the House leader of the official opposition about having confidence in the government, since he knows what I have to say.

In fact, it is disheartening. Right now, I do not have confidence in the government, but I am reaching out and I think it could be trusted. There needs to be a change in attitude and a collaborative effort, as was the case in the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic.

At that time, the government listened to the opposition's proposals. The opposition proposed some worthwhile measures, such as the Canada emergency wage subsidy. That was a Bloc Québécois proposal that had a major impact on the economy.

Our proposals to define assault weapons and create a list of criminal organizations could change lives, save the lives of many people, but the government needs to listen.

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7:15 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I certainly agree that legislative solutions alone are not enough without added resources at the border to fight illegal gun trafficking from the United States. In a June 2 article in Canada's National Observer, Sandy Garossino wrote that 75% of firearm fatalities were suicides committed by gun owners.

We talked about men's mental health just a week ago in the House, so we know men are much more likely to commit suicide than women. We know these suicides account for the vast majority of firearm fatalities. What are the member's thoughts on that?

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7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague, whom I hold in high esteem, for the quality of his speech and his thoughtful consideration. He is proving it again today.

When I mentioned the 95% figure earlier, I was referring to 95% of violent crimes committed on the streets of Montreal. We are not talking about the same statistics. I have not seen the statistic that 75% of suicides are committed with firearms. I will trust my colleague on the validity of that figure.

Of course that is an issue. Bill C-21 could contribute to some progress in that regard, since it will reduce the number of handguns in circulation, gradually and over time.

Beyond that, I think my colleague mentioned the key elements: mental health and resources. The day that society adequately funds health care, for instance, to focus on prevention rather than the cure, or band-aid solutions after the fact, we will be well on our way to solving these problems.

My question is fundamental. It is clear where I am going with this. I am still talking about those darn health transfers. Can we just get the money to take care of our people? Then we can invest in mental health or homelessness and we can make a difference. I am sure my colleague agrees with me.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I know the Table is aware of this situation. We are getting reports of some technical difficulties. Members are not able to get into Zoom. I know our lobby coordinator in the back is dealing with a problem with the dashboard that he uses. There are emails that are not circulating. I am wondering if you could provide the House with an update.

I know the Table is aware of this. I certainly did not want to interrupt my colleague from the Bloc, but before the next speaker rises, perhaps a suggestion could be that we may suspend.

I see the opposition whip is coming in. Perhaps he has some more information about the technical difficulties.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I checked with our desk, and it does not seem to be affecting us. Maybe the member could be more specific. It might be one or two people with bad connections who are trying to connect. It does not seem to be universal.

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7:15 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House, we have had all of our members speak, so that is why we might not necessarily have the same problems that the couple of members in the House who speak for the Liberals are having. We do know that there are several committees right now that are having trouble being stood up because the Internet is down in the Parliamentary precinct. If any member checks in their office right now, they will find that the Internet is down. We cannot have a Zoom meeting or join virtually or in a hybrid format if we are having technical problems.

We do have members in our caucus who want to participate by using the tools they are allowed to use right now; therefore, I would ask the administration or somebody to please provide us with a solution, because right now Conservatives are being denied the ability to participate in Parliament according to the rules that the House has adopted.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that members of the House should remember this before they vote tomorrow or the day after on the motion to use the hybrid format for the business of Parliament for another year. It does not work all the time. I humbly suggest to my fellow members that the hybrid format should be allowed only when necessary. It should not be the norm, but an exception.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I personally find it very hard to believe that the Conservatives could be having any trouble with participation by their members as a result of Internet problems.

I know we heard vociferously in question period earlier today that Conservatives want to come to work and want to be in the chamber and feel that participating virtually is not legitimate. Therefore, I would think that any Conservative members who are really keen to participate would be in the chamber pursuant to the remarks of their leader.

I know it has been suggested in some quarters—

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Okay, we are getting into debate.

The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona on the point of order.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would be prepared to support that.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would humbly remind the House that people made plans this week to either be here or somewhere else, based on what we have as operating rules and procedures for this House. This is not a debate about what it should be; this is a debate about what it currently is.

It is evidence that this format does not always work. I agree with my colleague from the Bloc about future considerations, but for the considerations right now, there are members of the Conservative caucus who cannot participate in the House of Commons.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I do not want to go too far into debate here, because I do want to confer with the Table officers.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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7:20 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member made reference to there being no Internet in the parliamentary precinct. I have my laptop open, and there is Internet access. I checked with the backroom, where we have many members who are participating, and I believe it is not universal. There might be some issues with some members, and we should continue with the debate.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

We are hearing that we are having troubles. We have a couple of dashboards that are not working. I believe the dashboards of the Conservative caucus and the NDP caucus are not working. We are having trouble with some Internet. We have one committee that is meeting. ParlVU is apparently not working. One committee has to decided not to restart.

We do have a number of issues happening in the precinct. In some cases the Internet is working and in some cases it is not. We will look to see if there is a way to solve it. I know many of us would probably pull the plug on the modem and plug it back in and hope for the best, but the system is probably a little more robust than that.

We can maybe continue with the next speaker. I will come back to the floor with an update of what we are finding across the precinct, if that is okay with members. I am just going to look for a nod.

The hon. House leader for the official opposition.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is fine. When we get to questions and comments, there may be some people who may not be able to participate. I would just provide that as a warning, but I am so looking forward to hearing the hon. member speak.

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7:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Let us do that.

The hon. member for Rivière‑des‑Mille‑Îles.

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7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Mr. Speaker, I believe that these technical difficulties are giving rise to an anti-democratic situation.

We all decided that we would have a hybrid Parliament, meaning that members who are at home have the same rights as those who are here in Parliament. In this case, the Internet is not working for some NDP members, who are not receiving messages, and the system is also not working for some Conservative members. It happens to be working for my party, but I have a bit of a problem with that. We are saying that only part of Parliament will work, because it is currently in hybrid mode, and I have a problem with that.

With all due respect, I simply wanted to mention that.

Interruption to ProceedingsPoints of OrderGovernment Orders

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I have consulted with the Table, and all members trying to join us can now do so. All members present in the House or online can do so.

We will be able to resume with at least one speech, and we could return to the House after finding a solution.

The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona.