House of Commons Hansard #348 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was documents.

Topics

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Mr. Speaker, some of the testimony and the words that we have been hearing over the last few days have just been mind-boggling. The scandal just keeps growing. I would like to just bring up a comment that was made in committee by an employee of SDTC. I am going to read it specifically. I would like to know the comments from the member for Calgary Nose Hill. The quote from the employee was:

I think the current government is more interested in protecting themselves and protecting the situation from being a public nightmare. They would rather protect wrongdoers and financial mismanagement than have to deal with a situation like SDTC in the public sphere.

Could the member please comment on those comments, an exact quote made by an employee of SDTC at committee?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, first, I offer my condolences for having to serve under one of the worst prime ministers in Canadian history. Second, I think I will deal with the question obliquely, by saying that the whole goal of SDTC, the Sustainable Development Technology Canada fund, was to promote technologies that were homegrown so that the intellectual property could stay in Canada. What else was its goal? It was also to address environmental challenges like climate change. The government has done nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and now it is literally allowing one of its main funds for the issue to be subject to potential malfeasance. How disheartening is that?

Not only are the Liberals not meeting their climate objectives but they are also allowing scandal, waste and fraud to permeate a company filled with people who just want to do good. How disheartening is that?

That is why, as my colleague said, the motion is before us. I think there is a lot of agreement in this place, except from the governing party, the Liberals, for us to move on. I wish for and implore the governing Liberals to just produce the documents so we can move on with life and, as my colleague rightly brought up, perhaps re-inspire the hope of that former employee of SDTC.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, I keep hearing that Parliament is supreme. I agree, but in the Constitution of the Canadian system of government, there is the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judiciary branch. Each has its own powers and responsibilities. That is something many of us seem to forget.

With respect to this specific debate, the RCMP wrote to the law clerk of the House of Commons in July, saying that any records obtained through the process cannot be used in its investigative work. Therefore why are we still insisting? Can the member explain to me whether there is anything that prevents the RCMP from getting whatever records and whatever documents it needs if and when there is an investigation?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, there absolutely is something that prevents the RCMP from getting the documents. It is the Liberal Party of Canada, and that is why we moved the motion in this place to compel the documents. The member's party has completely blocked justice in this sense, and that is why we are doing this today.

It was actually the member opposite, who just raised the question, whom I was referring to in in my earlier remarks, saying that members like him who do not hold a government position, though I guess he kind of does, need to look inside and say that they will not do the dirty work of the government anymore and will not be complicit in this. When the member keeps standing up and raising talking points that are just patently false, he is not being true to himself or to his constituents, who brought him here to uphold the rules and to respect their rights and privileges.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is tremendous at explaining the policy and procedure that folks at home are sometimes not quite following or understanding, and I guess she has been here for quite a while. She has sat in government. She has sat on the other side of the House. If she could explain to folks watching at home how dire the situation truly is and what it actually means for democracy and for the future of Canadians, that would be great.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, I did hold a cabinet position. It was an economic position that was responsible for various grants and contributions, and every step of the way, I changed terms of funding. I called for proposal models so everything would be as fair and as just as possible so no one could ever accuse our government of not spending money wisely or of enriching our friends.

It is corporate fiduciary responsibility that the current government has lost because it does not have ministerial accountability anymore. I think that is so sad, and I look forward to a government led by the current Leader of the Opposition where that accountability is restored.

Message from the SenateOrders of the Day

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I have the honour to inform the House that a message has been received from the Senate informing this House that the Senate has passed Bill C-76, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I have the honour to inform the House that a communication has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall

Ottawa

October 3, 2024

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that the Right Honourable Mary May Simon, Governor General of Canada, signified royal assent by written declaration to the bills listed in the schedule to this letter on the 3rd day of October, 2024, at 3:28 p.m.

Yours sincerely,

Ken MacKillop

Secretary to the Governor General

The schedule indicates the bills assented to were Bill C-49, An Act to amend the Canada—Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts—Chapter 20 and Bill C-76, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act—Chapter 21.

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Kelowna—Lake Country, Housing; the hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, Carbon Pricing; and the hon. member for Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, Government Accountability.

The House resumed consideration of the motion, and of the amendment.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I rise today in response to the Speaker's ruling regarding the Liberal government's refusal to comply with a binding House order to produce documents related to Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or better known to Canadians as the Liberal green slush fund.

It is like Groundhog Day here in Parliament. We are once again debating another Liberal scandal instead of legislation, but the Liberals have done this to themselves. They are clearly trying to hide the details of yet more corruption. I have a prediction: These documents will eventually prove that the Liberals have wasted taxpayer money and helped their friends. Why else would they go to such great lengths to keep them so secret?

It is simply astounding and, frankly, infuriating to me and to the people I represent that the Liberal government has become so complacent and so careless that it is willing to let millions of tax dollars be wasted and does not even want an investigation into how or why. We are not just talking about numbers on a balance sheet here; we are talking about the hard-earned tax dollars of everyday Canadians. It is reasonable for them to loathe the waste and corruption they have seen under the Liberal government.

The sheer audacity of the Prime Minister to sidestep a binding House order and to cloak himself in secrecy is nothing short of outrageous. Make no mistake, his stonewalling is not just irresponsible; it is a betrayal of the trust of the very people he, and everyone in this place, was elected to serve. We owe it to Canadians to demand answers, to hold the Prime Minister accountable and to ensure taxpayer money is not being funnelled into the hands of his friends, Liberal insiders.

To demonstrate why we must find the Liberal government in breach of parliamentary privilege by ignoring the will of this House, we must examine the pattern of appalling evasion and secrecy habits from the government. As a bit of a refresher on previous Liberal failures to be open and transparent, beyond the matter before us, let us not forget the SNC-Lavalin scandal. This was when the Prime Ministerdecided to fire Jody Wilson-Raybould for refusing to go along with his nefarious plan to change the law to protect himself and, of course, his friends. The Prime Minister was then repeatedly asked to waive cabinet confidence to let Ms. Wilson-Raybould speak, and he refused time and time again. He did everything he could to make sure that no one, including and especially the RCMP, could even get access to evidence to properly investigate the matter.

Now, let us fast-forward to the Winnipeg lab documents the Prime Minister refused to hand over, once again defying the will of Parliament in the process. When the previous Speaker ruled that he and his government must hand over the documents, the Speaker said:

The [powers] in question, like all those enjoyed by the House collectively and by members individually, are essential to the performance of their duties. The House has the power, and indeed the duty, to reaffirm them when obstruction or interference impedes its deliberations. As guardian of these rights and privileges, that is precisely what the House has asked me to do today by ordering the Speaker to reprimand you for the Public Health Agency of Canada's contempt in refusing to submit the required documents.

This all sounds a little familiar to today's debate, of course. What did the Prime Minister do in that instance? He was callous enough to let the president of the Public Health Agency of Canada take the fall. It was cruel that he decided to make a public servant take the fall for his failures of leadership and his own political objectives. A long time ago, it feels like forever, nine long, miserable years ago or so, the Liberal Prime Minister promised that government would be open by default. I do not know if the Prime Minister believed himself then, or if he just drank too much of his own Kool-Aid, but his record does not match that empty rhetoric.

In politics, we should not be judged by our words; we should be measured against our actions. Words are cheap, and without following through, they are not worth anything. I do not blame Canadians for being upset with the Prime Minister, not just for this scandal but broadly speaking, because he is anything but open and transparent. The fact we are here debating this again today is yet another proof point of that.

However, the reason this motion is so important is that it transcends mere procedural oversight. It speaks directly to the integrity of our democracy and the accountability we owe to the people each one of us represents in this place. This issue is not just about a handful of documents. It reflects a broader principle of good government, one that is essential for maintaining public trust, something the Prime Minister lost some time ago.

Let us revisit the timeline and the facts that have brought us here today. On June 10, the House passed a motion demanding specific documents that are critical to our oversight of government operations. We set a reasonable deadline of 30 days to comply, yet what followed was far from satisfactory. It was extremely disappointing, but perhaps not surprising given the Liberals' track record. The reports submitted to the Speaker by the law clerk indicated partial disclosures and numerous redactions. In some cases, we faced outright refusal from various government departments. This is not merely a technical breach. It constitutes a dismissal of Parliament's authority. The actions of the Liberal government convey the troubling message that it simply prioritizes convenience over accountability. This is not how government is meant to function.

Let us take a moment to reflect on the importance of parliamentary privilege. The Speaker has in the past noted the absolute nature of the powers to order the production of documents. This is no trivial matter; it is a cornerstone of our democratic process. Parliamentary privilege allows us to demand transparency, ensuring that the government is held accountable to the people it serves or, at least, should serve. This House has the unequivocal right to request any information necessary for us to fulfill those parliamentary duties.

The Prime Minister must recognize that he is not above the rules that govern this place because it operates under the scrutiny of the House and, by extension, the very people of Canada we are here to represent. To stress that point, let us reflect on some historical precedents. Speaker Milliken affirmed the House's unwavering right to order the production of documents, asserting that no exceptions should be made for any category of government documents. This principle is enshrined in our procedural traditions and underscores the fundamental duty of Parliament to oversee the actions of the government of the day.

As for why we are taking this somewhat extraordinary step, it is because what we uncovered regarding this green slush fund scandal is nothing short of appalling. It directly undermines the fundamental tenet of responsible governance: that taxpayer dollars should be directed toward their intended purposes and, better yet, they should achieve outcomes of those purposes. We discovered that the Liberals appointed a board of directors with individuals closely aligned with Liberal interests and with deep-seated conflicts of interest. This board then made decisions that funnelled taxpayer money to companies that, as the Auditor General pointed out, have no verifiable environmental benefits. The Liberal government has tried to spin a yarn about how this was using tax dollars on green projects; instead, it was mired with conflicts of interest and ineligible project applications.

I want to extend my sincere gratitude to my many hard-working Conservative colleagues, particularly the member for South Shore—St. Margarets, who have dedicated countless hours to find the truth. They have done exemplary work on behalf of Canadians by digging deep to get to the bottom of this mess. The member for South Shore—St. Margarets exposed this green slush fund for what it truly was, a mechanism for companies to cash in for projects that were not even eligible or simply to enrich themselves.

I am particularly troubled by the notion of the board of directors allocating taxpayer money to companies in which they have a vested interest. This is a profound betrayal of the public trust. This is why this production order is so critical and why the government's defiance of such a serious breach of parliamentary privilege is so appalling. In my view, it is imperative that any member of this House who has any desire for accountability must support this motion.

For those watching at home, I will give a rundown of how we got here. Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or SDTC, was not always this body engulfed in scandal and corruption. In fact, it was started back in 2001 with the purpose of funding companies that create technologies promoting sustainable development; this is not a bad idea. In its intended form, SDTC is an arm's-length and not-for-profit organization. However, it all changed with the Liberal government, which transformed it into anything but that. SDTC has a board of directors that oversees payments from the fund.

Jim Balsillie, the former co-CEO of BlackBerry, became the chair of this board back in 2013. He served in that capacity for several years, that is, until one day, the then Liberal industry minister expressed concerns because Balsillie was critical of the Liberal government. So they did what Liberals do and searched for a friendly face to take on the role, ultimately settling on Annette Verschuren in June 2019.

That is when the problems really started. Ms. Verschuren had received SDTC funding, which made her the only chair in the fund's history to have interests in a company receiving money from the organization. The minister, the Prime Minister's Office and the Privy Council Office, the Prime Minister's bureaucratic department, were warned of the risks with her appointment, yet they went ahead anyway. Ms. Verschuren went on to normalize an environment where conflicts of interest thrived. Simply put, the board of directors would award funding to companies in which they held financial interests. They enriched themselves at the expense of hard-working, taxpaying Canadians.

The examples are incredibly damning, so let me just mention a few. Stephen Kukucha, a former Liberal political staffer, served as a director for some time. During his tenure, companies he had a financial interest in received nearly $5 million in SDTC funding. Guy Ouimet, another director, admitted that companies he had a financial interest in received about $17 million in SDTC funding.

These numbers are not exactly chump change, but they pale in comparison to the story of Andrée-Lise Méthot. Ms. Méthot owns Cycle Capital, a firm that apparently invests in green technologies. During her time on the board, $114 million in SDTC grants were given to companies she had a financial interest in. That was just during the time she was on the board. When we combine what the companies she had invested in received both before and during that time, the total was $250 million.

I would like to say it stops there, but it actually gets a little worse. Before he was focused on driving our economy into the ground, the radical Minister of Environment was a so-called strategic adviser for none other than Cycle Capital. During his 10 years there, millions went from Liberal coffers to that firm. In fact, I understand he still owns shares in the company but refuses to tell us how much they have increased in value. My theory is that they have increased a lot, because he is apparently rich enough not to worry about the economic vandalism he and his government are doing to Canadians. He must be buffered from those challenges.

Regardless, the corruption was too great. The gravy train had to end at some point. In late 2022, whistle-blowers raised concerns about corruption at SDTC. Later in 2023, they went public with those concerns, sounding the alarm about unethical practices at the organization.

That November, the Auditor General announced that an audit of SDTC would be completed. The report released in June 2024 was damning, to say the least. The Auditor General found 186 conflicts of interest. Not one, not two, not a few, but 186. Who in their right mind would think this is acceptable? I do not care what one's political stripe is; nobody would find that acceptable. To fight back against any investigation into that is simply appalling. Of the sample of contracts investigated by the Auditor General, it turns out $390 million in contracts was inappropriately awarded.

For many years, it was a good time to be a Liberal insider, until these dastardly whistle-blowers emerged. It turns out, time is up. The most damning testimony came from these whistle-blowers. Let me read a few quotes. One reads:

I think the current government is more interested in protecting themselves and protecting the situation [from] being a public nightmare. They would rather protect wrongdoers and financial mismanagement than have to deal with a situation like SDTC in the public sphere.

Another reads, “The true failure of the situation stands at the feet of our current government, whose decision to protect wrongdoers and cover up their findings over the last 12 months is a serious indictment of how our democratic systems and institutions are being corrupted by political interference.”

I will pause to give everyone a chance to reflect on those statements. If they do not drive home the problem, I do not know what will.

Recognizing this, the House decided to pass a motion on June 10 that called on the Liberal government to provide to the House documents pertaining to SDTC. It included provisions for the documents to then be provided to the RCMP so that it could undertake a criminal investigation on whether criminal offences were committed. This last piece is important, since the Auditor General conducted a governance audit, not a criminal investigation.

What did the government do in response? It is a reasonable question. It did not do what it was supposed to do, of course. It delayed and deflected so long that it forced the Speaker of the House to rule that the government violated the privileges of the institution and its members. That, simply put, is the story of how the Liberals transformed an arm's-length, not-for-profit organization into a money grab for Liberal insiders.

We all know the saying that sunlight is the best disinfectant. The Prime Minister used to crow about this all the time, but as of late, I would not dare him to say it publicly because it would not be taken seriously. Like many of the Prime Minister's promises, this one, of course, has faded into the distance.

It has taken immense effort from a parliamentary committee and now a production order from the House of Commons for the government to comply with our request for basic documentation about these payments. This should have been a straightforward process. These documents do not require a motion to obtain. Departments ought to proactively disclose such information or at least readily provide it upon request. A government intent on transparency would have no qualms about sharing this information, but that is not the Liberal government.

Consider this: The government has consumed valuable legislative time forcing us to extract information that it could have disclosed at the outset. Instead of coming forward with the necessary documentation when initial concerns arose, the Liberals chose to conceal it intentionally, wasting time and resources that could have been better spent, I think, in the eyes of every Canadian. The ongoing redactions and the refusal to release certain documents speak volumes about the abilities of the government. These are not the actions of a government with nothing to hide.

We are merely asking the government to hand these documents over to the law clerk, who can then forward them to the RCMP if necessary. If, as we suspect, wrongdoing and illegality occurred, we owe it to the Canadian taxpayers, who have seen their money wasted, to pursue the truth.

I fully support the proposal to refer this matter to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. This committee can delve deeper and examine what documents remain outstanding, what has been withheld and, crucially, hold those accountable for any misappropriated tax dollars. I urge all members to support this course of action, because we need to send a strong message to the Liberal government that we will not be intimidated by its underhanded tactics or its secrecy.

I am not daunted or apprehensive about taking the Liberals on. This is exactly what I am doing at the environment committee right now, as we start the process of investigating the Liberals' net zero accelerator fund, which is worth $8 billion, far more than the green slush fund that we are talking about today. The environment committee has passed numerous motions to get its hands on the contracts the Liberals signed, and we will do whatever is necessary to get to the bottom of that quagmire. Based on the Liberals' track record, I would not be surprised if we see ourselves back here for a failure to deliver those contracts.

It is vital that we remember who as members of Parliament we serve. Each of us has a duty to our constituents to ensure that the government is spending their hard-earned money appropriately, that it is not being wasted or misspent and that it is going toward its intended purpose, not to the pockets of Liberal insiders and those who simply know how to game the system. This is more than just documents. This is about accountability and our democracy, and those who do wrong must be brought to justice.

I encourage all members, particularly my Liberal colleagues, whom I know this will be rather difficult for, to stand up for what is right, because their voters elected them for the same reason that mine elected me: They want members to do the right thing. They want them to vote for this motion to provide a bit of disinfectant and sunlight to this information. When it matters most, it is time to stand up.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I would like to repeat a question that I have had the opportunity to ask on a couple of occasions.

The RCMP is in essence saying that it is very much concerned about the process being suggested for gathering information and handing it over to the RCMP. Legitimate concerns have been raised in regard to constitutionality and the potential violation of the Charter of Rights. It seems to me that the Conservatives are completely disregarding that aspect, believing they know more than the RCMP, and have discredited that institution on this important issue. Why?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, “disregarding” is an odd word to use considering why we are here. Disregarding a binding House order, voted for by a majority of parliamentarians, is what the government is doing. I find it appalling that the defence is some made-up scenario.

If government members do not believe they did anything wrong, they can voluntarily and directly hand these documents over to the RCMP and say they did not do anything wrong; check them out. They are choosing not to and that is on them.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Mr. Speaker, for those watching, this is a very serious issue. We had a question of privilege, and the Speaker ruled in favour of it. We are asking for documents to be turned over for accountability and transparency.

One of the biggest missing pieces I hear about at the doors is accountability. I am curious if my colleague can answer why he thinks the Liberals are not turning over the documents.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, it does not take a lot of common sense to come to the conclusion that the Liberals are hiding something. Why would they not turn over the documents if there was nothing to hide?

The reality is, when the Auditor General comes out with a report that says over 80% of these contracts have a conflict of interest and $390 million has been misspent and funnelled through the companies of Liberal insiders who were stacked on the board, I do not blame the Liberals for not wanting to turn over the documents, because they know the outcome will be very bad for the Liberal Party of Canada.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Mr. Speaker, I also deplore the fact that important documents and information are being hidden. The Bloc Québécois deplores it as well. It is typical of our Liberal colleagues across the way, although I cannot explain why. We saw it with the WE Charity scandal. We saw it with SNC-Lavalin. We have seen it on I do not know how many occasions over the last two or three Parliaments.

Right now, the polls are predicting that we may have a Conservative government at some point in the next year. We do not know exactly when that will happen. I would like to ask my colleague the following question. What measures does his party plan to put in place to prevent such situations from happening again and to ensure that, when the House requests documents, it receives them unredacted, as requested?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague brought up a couple scandals that, in my 20-minute speech, I did not even have time to get through, which is really indicative of the approach of the government. It is not surprising, because this is its track record. Its track record is obfuscating. It is hiding. It is using a cloak-and-dagger secrecy approach.

We must remember that the Conservative Party, when first elected back in 2006, was all about the Federal Accountability Act. That is the act we brought in to clean up the last Liberal mess. We have a proven track record of true accountability, which is what Canadians not only demand but deserve.

I cannot wait to have the Bloc Québécois, at the next opportunity, support the Conservatives' non-confidence motion so we can go to a carbon tax election and find out if we get the chance to govern.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Mr. Speaker, I thank our newer member of Parliament for his speech. He was recently elected in a by-election and has been very insightful. He has clearly done his research and looked at the documents.

We hear tripe, and it really is tripe, from the Liberal House leader and the Liberal members of Parliament about the RCMP. They say that only the RCMP can ask for documents, but the RCMP is interested in receiving these documents. Why? At the justice committee, Deputy Commissioner Mark Flynn of the RCMP was asked if he would look at the documents if they came from the House of Commons by order, and here is what he said: “I can say that any information that comes to the RCMP will go through the appropriate level of review, using the appropriate resources to do so.” He did not say it would interfere with the investigation.

Would the best way to avoid having Liberal cronies funnel $400 million of taxpayer money to their own companies not be to appoint people to public positions who are not conflicted before they are even on the board?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, that was an excellent point by my colleague from South Shore—St. Margarets. I would like to applaud him because he has done yeoman's work to get to the bottom of this. He has done incredible work to find out the truth in this matter. It is not surprising to me that he is bringing up more recent realities from the RCMP, because why would the defence be that the RCMP does not want to see information that could prove the Liberals were corrupt? That is a very weak argument.

The charter is meant to protect Canadians from the government, not the government from Canadians. I cannot wait until we form a common-sense Conservative government. We will be thoughtful of our appointments and will not put a bunch of insiders in place, because we have a much higher level of respect for not only this institution but government as a whole. We will be transparent by default and will follow through on it, not just say it.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, the problem with glass houses is that people who live in them should not throw stones. I do not want to live in the past either. I think there is a rotten scandal here, and I am looking forward to speaking about it tomorrow morning. However, I recall that some people who former prime minister Stephen Harper decided were worthy of being in the Senate ended up committing various acts of coercion. There were some allegations of bribery. Senator Mike Duffy is an example.

Some people who have served in these institutions as parliamentarians were put there solely for the benefit of being able to grease the palms of their friends. I really regret that we have to think about that. Let us just take an oath of doing better, all of us. Let us not assume that we know that everybody else is corrupt but we never will be.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I disagree with my colleague across the way on many things, but she is often thoughtful. I look forward to hearing her speech on this topic tomorrow morning because I think it will bring a few issues to light that the Liberal government will not want to hear.

Do not quote me on this, but in terms of Senate appointments, I think it is 87 appointees whom the current Prime Minister has put into a Senate that is no longer functional, that is apparently independent but stacked with a whole bunch of Liberal insiders.

I am not for throwing stones in glass houses. The reality is that we both agree this scandal has been a failure and that there have been dozens, which is dozens too many for Canadians to bear. That will turn after the next carbon tax election.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if my colleague from Portage—Lisgar has any more examples of not so much corruption but conflicts of interest. Have any other projects come to his mind as he has been working as an MP in Ottawa?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I have only been here for a little over a year, so I have only seen a half-dozen or so from the Liberal government. One that I cannot wait to see come forward is the government's refusal to hand over documents about the net-zero accelerator fund, which my colleague and I are working to investigate at the environment committee right now. I think a wild story is going to come out about a whole bunch of money that was spent promising to reduce emissions. Once we see the information, it will prove to have reduced zero emissions, with zero opportunity to reduce emissions. Of course, before I finish, I cannot help but point out the multiple proven ethics violations of the Prime Minister.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, over the last couple of days, it has been somewhat difficult to listen to all the comments as the Conservatives work with other members of the House to put a serious twist on things. How can they say that, just because we have the parliamentary authority and the decisions we make are so supreme, we are somehow allowed to walk over things like the Charter of Rights? I am not surprised this is coming from the Conservatives, because they also believe in being able to use the notwithstanding clause on a whim.

I would suggest that individuals need to be aware of what the Conservatives are asking for. We can simply say that the Conservative Party has taken it upon itself, according to the member for Brantford—Brant, to assist the RCMP. They are going to gather information and provide it to the RCMP directly. I would suggest that this blurs the issue of judicial independence.

Time and again, we hear Conservative members stand up and try to give the impression that everything is okay, that we should not worry about it, that they are not going to be walking on any potential issues related to the charter. They say that they have the supreme right because, after all, they are members of Parliament. That is what it is they want to say, loud and clear. I understand the important role we all play as members of Parliament, but I also have a deep respect for the institution of our RCMP. Therefore, when it says that it is very uncomfortable with what is being proposed by the Conservatives, unlike the Conservatives, I listen to that. I think the wording was “extreme discomfort”. When the Auditor General also expresses extreme discomfort with the issue, I listen to that.

For those who are asking how it is a charter issue, I am not a lawyer. However, I understand the importance of judicial independence. Furthermore, I suspect that there is a good potential for guilt to be found. I suspect that, when and if this thing goes before a court, we could easily see a defence lawyer challenging how the rights of an individual were breached through the Charter of Rights by the manner in which the RCMP was provided information. It is highly irresponsible to completely close our eyes and deny that. That is what we are seeing from the official opposition. Why? It is because they say that all they are trying to do is assist the RCMP. What a slippery slope that is. What are the Conservatives going to do if they do not like the conclusion of one aspect of the law or the RCMP's conclusion not to lay charges on something? Are they then going to take action and say that they are supreme because they are members of Parliament and that they want the RCMP to lay a charge?

I have more confidence in the system and the institution, in the RCMP and even in the work that has been done to date on the issue. Let us think about it. When this issue first came to light, we had the department and the minister responsible and two independent investigations that were done, as well as work by the Auditor General of Canada. I do not know how many hours of debate took place, as well as questioning of all the individuals involved at the standing committee.

The Conservatives have a drive to try to keep it alive, even if it means walking over someone's charter rights. Where was this enthusiasm when they were actually in government? That is the nice thing about what is said inside the chamber: It is all recorded. The Conservatives' focus, virtually from day one, has been on character assassination; wherever they can throw the word “corrupt”, they do. I want to remind members opposite of their actual behaviour.

I appreciate that a number of the New Democrats actually raised a couple of these points, and I want to reinforce some of these things. Let us think in terms of Conservative government corruption, in just one government: that of Stephen Harper. Many members who are sitting across the way were a part of that government. In fact, the leader of the Conservative Party was a minister.

I have a short list of instances of their corruption. There is a much longer list; maybe I will be able to expand on it sometime next week. There is the anti-terrorism scandal by the Conservative Party, the Phoenix scandal and the G8 spending scandal. There is also the gazebo scandal; we had a minister taking money and saying they wanted to build a gazebo. What about that scandal? That is one of the sub—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Order. I would say that the hon. parliamentary secretary has the floor, so I would maybe let him continue his speech. We can make sure we start a list of people who want to ask him questions.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to answer as many questions as members opposite might have.

It is interesting; there is a direct link. I suspect some of them might not necessarily know about it, because not all of them were a part of Stephen Harper's government, but they should do a Google search on it or check the encyclopedia. They will find lots of details, and they will see a direct connection to the Conservative Party. There is no direct connection here, I must say, in terms of what they are talking about.

We have the ETS scandal. That is a $400-million Conservative scandal. Then, we have the F-35 scandal and the Senate scandal. That scandal went all the way to former prime minister Stephen Harper's office, to the Senate and to the House of Commons. That was a fairly significant scandal, not to mention the Elections Canada scandal—