House of Commons Hansard #350 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was liberals.

Topics

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, that is too disappointing. For the members opposite, I will carry on from where I was, so I do not have to repeat some of the stuff we went through at the beginning.

I will remind members that the Auditor General gave SDTC a clean bill of health in 2017. It was only after the Prime Minister's hand-picked Liberal board members were appointed that the fund began voting to give itself absurd amounts of money. In addition, while SDTC ought to have been at arm's length from the government, in practice, it was not. The minister recommended board appointments, and senior officials from the Prime Minister's Department of Innovation, Science and Economic Development sat in on every meeting, monitoring the activities of the board. It is simply unbelievable that senior ISED officials who report directly to the Minister of Innovation said nothing while witnessing how millions of dollars was funnelled to companies in which board members held active conflicts of interest.

In response to these damning findings, in June, Conservatives put forward a motion calling on the government to provide documents pertaining to SDTC to the House. The motion included provisions for those documents to be provided to the RCMP so that it could undertake an investigation on whether criminal offences were committed. I will explain why it is necessary for the House to turn over these documents to the RCMP.

As part of her investigation, the Auditor General conducted a governance audit of SDTC. She did not conduct a criminal investigation, which could explain why no criminal intent was identified. The whistle-blower has told the public accounts committee he is confident that, if these documents are turned over to the RCMP, criminal intent will be identified. The SDTC whistle-blower who testified at committee stated:

I think the Auditor General's investigation was more of a cursory review. I don't think the goal and mandate of the Auditor General's office is to actually look into criminality, so I'm not surprised by the fact that they haven't found anything criminal. They're not looking at intent. If their investigation was focused on intent, of course they would find the criminality.

A majority of members in the House passed this motion. In response to the motion, many of the Liberal government's departments either refused the House's order or redacted documents that were turned over, citing provisions in the Privacy Act or Access to Information Act. In response to this blatant disregard for the powers and privileges of the House of Commons, the Conservative House leader brought forward a question of privilege, arguing that the rights of parliamentarians had been breached. The Speaker of the House agreed that the House has the unequivocal right to order the production of papers and found that there was a clear case of violation of the privileges of parliamentarians. Conservatives will continue to seek the truth about the $390 million that has gone to Liberal insiders through this green slush fund. On the other side of the House, the Liberals are opposing the production order for documents to be turned over to the RCMP; it appears that they are not concerned about such a flagrant misuse of funds.

It is shocking and infuriating to me, my colleagues and the great people of Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte that the Liberal government feels comfortable wasting hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer funds and will not even allow an investigation into how or why this corruption occurred under its watch.

The misappropriated funds are tax dollars. They are dollars that the constituents in my riding worked hard to earn. People expect the tax dollars that they remit to the Government of Canada to be used wisely; through this appalling misuse of taxpayer funds, the government has broken the trust of these hard-working Canadians whom I represent. People are right to expect answers from the Liberal government and for the Prime Minister to be held accountable.

I want to remind the House that this is not the only Liberal scandal we have seen in the past nine years, when the Liberal government has been in power. However, it may be the costliest.

I will mention a few other examples. In the early days of the pandemic, the Liberal government tried to shut this place down and give itself unlimited taxing and spending powers without the oversight of Parliament for two whole years. I am thankful that my Conservative colleagues and I stopped this.

We also saw the SNC-Lavalin scandal, in which the Prime Minister pressured the former attorney general and minister of justice, Jody Wilson-Raybould, to give SNC-Lavalin a deferred prosecution agreement so that the scandal-ridden company executives would not have to go to court and face a trial for their misdeeds. The Prime Minister was found guilty of breaking ethics laws in this case.

We also saw that the Prime Minister was prepared to take the former Speaker of the House to court to prevent the release of the Winnipeg lab documents.

The Prime Minister also prorogued Parliament in the middle of an investigation of the WE Charity scandal to prevent an embarrassing committee investigation from continuing. In this scandal, the Prime Minister gave a $900-million sole-sourced contract to the company, with which he had close family ties.

The former Liberal finance minister, Bill Morneau, ended up resigning over this scandal when it was revealed that he received a $47,000 gift from WE Charity to fly his family on a luxury vacation and that his daughter was employed by the company.

The Prime Minister also had several scandals related to his luxurious vacations. In the first, he broke ethics laws when he was flown on a private aircraft to a billionaire island by a registered lobbyist. There was another incident in which the Prime Minister received a $9,000-a-night gift from a friend, who also happened to be a major donor to his family's foundation. Who can forget the ArriveCAN scandal, in which the Prime Minister gave millions to companies that did no work on an app that did not work. The app actually sent 10,000 Canadians into quarantine by accident.

I mention these incidents because they speak to the broken trust between the Prime Minister and the Canadian public. Time and time again, the Liberal government has shown a careless disregard for ethics laws and for taxpayer money.

Today, we are seeing the same pattern: A scandal occurs, and the Liberal government tries to cover it up. Conservatives will not stop until we get to the truth of this most recent scandal. Each member of the House, regardless of political affiliation, has a duty to ensure that the government is held accountable and that it is spending the money Canadians work so hard to earn in an appropriate manner.

We should not just throw up our hands, sit back and let Liberal insiders line their pockets with Canadian tax dollars. My Conservative colleagues and I are committed to ending this corruption.

I encourage all colleagues, even Liberal members, to stand up and right this wrong. We cannot allow corruption to fester in our government programs and institutions. We must get to the bottom of this issue. The Prime Minister must hand over all documents related to his green slush fund. Canadians deserve answers.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:05 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, it is clear that this is nothing but a game to the Conservative Party of Canada. They are more interested in having an immediate election than they are in what is in the best interests of Canadians, with political parties working together to do tangible things for Canadians.

This is an arm's-length organization. We have already established several independent investigations into the issue, one of which is by an independent officer through the Auditor General of Canada. The RCMP is providing comment in regard to the tactic that is being used by the Conservative Party, which has caused a great deal of concern. Most Canadians see the RCMP as a very respectable institution.

To say it is nothing but a political Liberal is just wrong, because Annette Verschuren herself was an adviser to Brian Mulroney and an appointment that Stephen Harper also made at one point.

Canadians deserve better from their official opposition. Why does the Conservative Party continue to play this game?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, there are no games being played on this side of the floor. We are trying to get to the truth of a horrendous scandal and an egregious violation of the people's rights and the taxpayers' money right now. We have been speaking on this issue for a little over a week.

This could end at any time if the documents were just produced. There is no “if and or”. We have said that this will end when the documents are produced. We want to get to the bottom of this situation. Canadians need to know. I need to know. The members and residents from Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte want to know and insist on it. As soon as those documents are produced, we will get on with the important legislation in the House.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:05 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. parliamentary secretary tried to interject again, and I would just ask him to wait until the appropriate moment to do that.

The hon. member for Shefford.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. It really caught my attention when he talked about control of the public purse, the nation's finances.

I want to come back to a subject that is near and dear to my heart, and that is Bill C‑319, which his party supported. The government is telling us that there is not enough money to increase OAS, a program that helps seniors. How are we to feel when we see so much of taxpayers' money being wasted, when the government could easily spare the 0.57% of the budget, or $3 billion per year, needed to implement Bill C‑319 if it were not wasting so much money?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, that is a very good point. I am hearing daily when I go out that taxpayers are tight on money right now. They are tired of paying taxes that are being wasted. My hon. colleague down the aisle brings up a great point. This money that was wasted could have been spent in so many better ways. A good example is the bill she brought forward, which Conservatives supported, giving extra money to some seniors.

I agree that things are tough right now. Money is tight. A lot of people are going to food banks. A lot of people are struggling. They are having trouble paying their rent. Canadians are struggling. Liberal cronies and buddies are not struggling. We need to make sure this ends, return that money, and make sure we are doing our due diligence and the money is being spent wisely. We are obviously seeing and hearing, day in and day out, that it is not right now.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, I am very interested in this issue of accountability and sharing documents. We find in a June 2024 national security and intelligence committee report that foreign agents for the Chinese and Indian governments interfered with the Conservative leadership race. Those documents are redacted, but I am sure the Conservatives know a lot more than they have told the Canadian people, and those documents back up the interviews with Erin O'Toole and with lawyers about interference that led to the guy who is living in Stornoway now.

As such, I am asking my hon. colleague whether the Conservatives are willing to share those documents about foreign interference, because it might explain why the leader of the Conservative Party is unable or unwilling to get national security clearance. What is he trying to hide?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, on this side of the aisle we are trying to hide nothing whatsoever. We are trying to get to the bottom of scandals and issues that are going on.

Right now, this week, we are talking about the scandal of SDTC, a scandal that has caused hundreds of millions of dollars to go missing. That is what we are talking about. That is what we are trying to get to the bottom of. There are always scandals around Parliament. We are always looking to get to the bottom of everything. We are here to do the right job, but today we are here to talk about the green slush fund, how it has been wasted, where the money has gone, and the cronyism of the Liberals' friends, family and businesses. We need to recoup that money and make sure we are doing the right job in here.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.

I am always struck by the member for Winnipeg North, who is one of the Liberal attackers of Conservatives in this place. No matter how untenable the Liberal position is, he will put it forward. It really is striking to me that all the Liberals have to do is turn over unredacted documents to get to the bottom of this, and yet they will not. It is a completely untenable position.

What does my colleague think of that? Why do they not just turn over the darn documents?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, my opinion is that they are trying to hide something. I would like to read again something I have read before, because I think it is very imperative, especially with regard to the question I was just asked.

The statement was from a member of SDTC who was in committee. This is a direct quote: “I think the current government is more interested in protecting themselves and protecting the situation from being a public nightmare. They would rather protect wrongdoers and financial mismanagement than have to deal with a situation like SDTC in the public sphere.”

I think that quote sums up why we are seeing this lack of openness in the production of documents and why we are seeing a cover-up. Hopefully, we can get those documents. Hopefully, we can find out where the money went. Hopefully, we can recoup the money and get some back for taxpayers. Hopefully, soon we can get back to doing the productive day-to-day work we are sent here to do in passing legislation for the good people of Canada.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, it is clear that the order we are debating is to see this issue go to the procedure and House affairs committee. That is actually what we are looking for. The Conservative Party brought in the motion, and all we need to do is have that vote: all agree to a vote on division. We can pass it to the committee. The Conservatives are getting what they want.

The issue is whether they are actually violating privileges of other members, because as opposed to allowing that to go through, they, as the member commented, are not going to stop talking until there is unredacted information, something that Harper never provided. Unless we are prepared to do it, they are going to blackmail the House of Commons until that materializes. That seems like it might be a violation of privilege of other members.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, what we are doing is holding the government to account. It was ruled by the Speaker, the Liberal Speaker himself, that these documents must be produced. It is interesting.

I would like to relay a little story—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I just want to correct the hon. member. I am sure he is aware that the Speaker is elected and there is no party attached to the position. I would ask him not to refer to that.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Madam Speaker, I just wanted to mention that I was at a large function on Saturday night. A lot of people in my riding, let us be honest, do not pay close attention to what is going on here at Parliament all the time. I could not believe how many people on Saturday night came up to me and were angry. They were upset. They know about the issue that is going on. They want answers, they want to know where the money went and we are here to get those answers for them.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Madam Speaker, it is always an honour to rise on behalf of the residents of Kelowna—Lake Country.

I rise today to talk about what has seized Parliament as more information comes out on what is becoming one of the biggest, and most costly to taxpayers, corruption scandals in Canada. There is a possibility it could be criminal. For Canadians watching, I would like to lay out why this debate is so important and how we ended up here. I am here today to discuss the ruling of the Speaker of the House of Commons with regard to the production of documents ordered by the House on the Liberal scandal involving Sustainable Development Technology Canada, SDTC, or as it has quickly become better known, the Liberals' billion-dollar green slush fund. This agency was created to invest in innovative, environmentally friendly technologies here in Canada, but under Liberal governance and management, it became a hotbed of corruption.

The reason for the debate today is simple: The Liberals refused to follow the will of Parliament after the Auditor General of Canada, the Ethics Commissioner and whistle-blowers uncovered clear and widespread corruption that favoured Liberal insiders. The issues all began in 2018, when the Liberals pushed out the existing chair of SDTC because he was critical of government legislation. This is another example of how the Liberals do not want independent voices around them. They only want their friends.

The Liberal industry minister at the time, Navdeep Bains, chose to appoint a new chair, an entrepreneur who was already receiving government funding through one of her companies. It was revealed that the Liberals were warned internally of the risks associated with appointing an obviously conflicted chair. They were told that up until that point, the fund had never had a chair with interests in companies receiving funding. The Liberals appointed her anyway. The new chair went on to create an environment where conflicts of interest were tolerated and “managed by board members”. This is as described by the Auditor General.

Board members went on to award SDTC funding to companies in which board members held stock or positions. Liberal minister Bains went on to appoint two other controversial board members who engaged in unethical behaviour in obvious breach of the Conflict of Interest Act by approving funding to companies in which they held ownership stakes. Department officials witnessed 186 conflicts at the board, but they did not intervene.

In January 2021, the current Liberal Minister of Industry replaced Minister Bains. In November 2022, whistle-blowers raised internal concerns with the Auditor General about unethical practices they saw at SDTC. In September 2023, the whistle-blowers took the allegations public, forcing the Liberal industry minister to suspend SDTC funding.

In November 2023, the Auditor General started to conduct an audit of the governance of SDTC. Here is how the Auditor General of Canada found Canadian tax dollars were used by the Liberal-appointed members of the SDTC board: Many approved projects were found to be either, one, ineligible for funding; two, a conflict of interest; or, three, both. The Auditor General found that $58 million went to 10 ineligible projects that, on occasions, could not demonstrate an environmental benefit or development of green technology, and that the Liberal-appointed SDTC board approved $334 million, over 186 cases, to projects in which board members held a conflict of interest. This is really quite unbelievable.

The Auditor General found that the Liberal minister did not sufficiently monitor the contracts that were given to Liberal ministers. There are a few points I want to make here. The Auditor General gave SDTC a clean bill of health in 2017. It was only after the Prime Minister's hand-picked Liberal board members were appointed that the fund began voting itself absurd amounts of taxpayer dollars. The government will say that SDTC was at arm's length, but SDTC was not at arm's length from the government.

The minister recommends board appointments, and Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, ISED, has senior department officials sitting in every meeting monitoring the activities of the board. It is unbelievable that a senior department official said nothing while witnessing hundreds of millions of dollars being funnelled to companies in which board members held active conflicts of interest. Are the minister, Liberal-appointed board members, and senior government officials all inept, complicit, corrupt or all of the above?

Another point is that as part of their investigation, the Auditor General conducted a governance audit at SDTC. She did not conduct a criminal investigation, which could explain why no criminal intent has been identified so far. However, the whistle-blower has told the public accounts committee that he is confident that if the documents are turned over to the RCMP, criminal intent will be identified.

Is this perhaps the reason the government has redacted documents and refused to turn them over to the RCMP: to prevent criminal intent from being identified? The Liberals touted themselves before the 2015 election, saying that they would be a transparent government. Why are the Liberals fighting so hard to not bring to light what has occurred? How bad is it and what are they trying to hide?

What makes the actions of the board of directors of SDTC so egregious is that when someone receives a Governor in Council appointment, as a person appointed by the government and entrusted to oversee taxpayer money, they are not to personally profit from their work on a committee, as a Governor in Council appointee, and neither is their family. However, that is exactly what happened, from the Liberal-appointed chair to other appointed board members.

In a five-year period, there were 405 transactions approved by the board. The Auditor General sampled 226 transactions, only about half of them, and found that 186 of the 226 transactions were conflicted. That is 82%, which represents the $330 million. Statistically speaking, if the Auditor General were to look at all 400 transactions, the rest are probably just as conflicted. The 400 transactions at 82% potentially represent $832 million of taxpayer money. Is that why the Liberals are so desperate to not turn over unredacted documents to the RCMP?

This is the level of corruption that brings down careers and governments. All of the revelations of what we know so far confirm what Canadians already know about the Liberal government: It is wasteful with the tax dollars of Canadians. Just look at the Prime Minister's lavish vacations, tens of billions in corporate welfare or the arrive scam. The government prefers to reward Liberal insiders at the expense of everyday Canadians.

Currently, Mark “carbon tax” Carney's conflict of interest is skirting his Liberal advisory position. The Auditor General of Canada says the federal government ignored proper contracting policies and was unable to show contracts got value for money when the government awarded $209 million to contracts to consulting firm McKinsey & Company.

The Liberals present themselves as green crusaders while wasting taxpayer funding on technology that has nothing to do with meeting the parameters of green technologies as laid out to receive government funding. All this is at a time when Canada has slipped to the 62nd place out of 67 ranked countries on the latest climate change performance index.

The Liberals are asleep at the wheel of their own government, allowing corruption, waste and incompetence to fester right under their noses. They continually mismanage files and departments, all at the expense of taxpayers. Multiple ministers across the government have tried to skirt accountability for matters that they are directly responsible for.

The Liberal foreign affairs minister said she was not aware that her department had purchased a $9-million condo in New York City in a neighbourhood known as Billionaires Row. The Liberal minister of immigration said he was alarmed by the number of foreigners entering Canada on student visas, even though he approved of the numbers.

The former minister responsible for passports did no planning for passport renewals postpandemic, which created absolute chaos at passport offices. She has been promoted now to government House leader. The former Liberal public safety minister said he was outraged after his office was briefed and approved the move of a dangerous Canadian serial killer to a medium-security facility.

The minister of industry's response to the Auditor General's report on the green slush fund was given not with clarity but with cover-up. The minister shut the entire agency down, which forced Parliament to step in to ensure that proper authorities could get to the bottom of the corruption. On June 10, the House adopted a motion calling for the production of various documents related to STDC to be turned over to the RCMP for review. It will be up to the RCMP to launch an investigation, but Canadians cannot trust the Liberals to provide the documents to the RCMP, so Parliament ordered them to.

It is a founding pillar of our democracy that Parliament remains sovereign. What the House votes for must happen, and this is what Canadians expect. It is how our system works. However, in response to the motion adopted, government departments either outright refused the House order or substantially redacted documents. Nothing in the House order contemplated redactions. The House has the absolute and unfettered power and authority to order the production of documents. That is not limited by statute; the powers are rooted in the Constitution Act of 1867 and the Parliament of Canada Act.

The House leader of the official opposition raised a point of privilege in response to the failure to produce documents. He argued that House privilege had been breached due to the failure to comply with the House order. On September 26, the Speaker of the House issued a ruling on the question of privilege raised and found that the privileges of the House had in fact been breached.

The current Liberal Prime Minister once said that sunlight is the best disinfectant. He certainly is not living up to that statement. The Prime Minister clearly has never believed his own statement, as he seeks sought to cover up corruption from the democratic representatives of the House.

This is not the first time that Liberals have tried to deny the will of Parliament. The Liberals prorogued Parliament in the middle of a scandal investigation of the WE Charity issue in order to prevent that investigation from being completed. The Liberals violated the privilege of the House when Parliament explicitly demanded unredacted documents relating to the firing of two scientists at the Winnipeg lab, the National Microbiology Laboratory, reportedly involving national security concerns. The Liberals even took the unprecedented step of suing their own Speaker to block the release of those documents.

Conservatives are the ones who exposed those scandals, and Conservatives will ensure that the Liberals comply with the order of the House to provide the SDTC documents directly to the RCMP and that they are unredacted so they can be investigated properly.

The conclusion of their own Speaker could not have been clearer: “The procedural precedents and authorities are abundantly clear. The House has the undoubted right to order the production of any and all documents from any entity or individual it deems necessary to carry out its duties.” How will the Liberals choose to respond this time? Will they continue to hold up the work of Parliament by extending the debate into their own violation of House rules when it could be ended immediately by simply providing the documents, as a majority of the House has requested? Will they drag the office of the Speaker to court once again to delay these matters?

They were forced to drop their lawsuit the last time they did this to try to stop documents from being released, but will they do this to delay information coming to light before an election? Will there be a similar scenario to what happened in 2021, when the Public Health Agency of Canada was found in contempt of Parliament for refusing to hand over documents related to the firing of two high-security virus scientists at Winnipeg's National Microbiology Lab over leaks to the regime of China during their time?

Will the Liberals prorogue Parliament, as has been whispered in the halls, to hold off being accountable for the mismanagement of government? Proroguing would wipe not just the current debate; it would wipe the work of our committees studying serious issues like labour, persons with disabilities and housing. It would destroy legislation not passed. As a reminder, the Liberals prorogued Parliament in 2020 to stop the pressing investigation into the WE Charity scandal.

Over the past nine years, for all the secrecy and the extreme lengths the Liberal government has gone to with attempts to hide information and documents on scandals during their watch, the information always seems to find a way to eventually come to light, whether through access to information requests, through whistle-blowers, through arm's-length agencies or through offices like that of the ombudsman, the Ethics Commissioner, the Parliamentary Budget Officer or the Auditor General.

If the Liberals do not trust the current Parliament, there is only one solution: a new Parliament after a carbon tax election to let Canadians decide whether the Liberals' wasteful, unethical mismanagement should continue. Canadians can decide whether they want to continue to pay for an ever-increasing carbon tax. Canadians can decide whether they wish to continue with the revolving door of violent repeat offenders, or a return to jail, not bail for those who terrorize our communities with repeat violent crimes. Canadians can decide whether they want to continue to see more money spent on fewer housing starts, or a Conservative plan to build more homes.

Canadians asked Conservatives to clean up the ethical mess of the last Liberal government and its sponsorship scandal. We will not allow another cover-up of waste, fraud and unethical misuse of taxpayers' money by the Liberals. If the Liberals seek to shut out the proper authorities from investigating their scandals, they will only shred the public confidence of Canadians in the government even further.

I would like to close with a quote from a whistle-blower that brought forth the situation:

Just as I was always confident that the Auditor General would confirm the financial mismanagement at SDTC, I remain equally confident that the RCMP will substantiate the criminal activities that occurred within the organization.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:30 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I think it is important to emphasize that SDTC was an arm's length organization. It is very important to recognize that fact. If we take a look at the internal investigations that have been done, we see that two of them were within the department. Then there was the Auditor General. There were then hours and hours at the standing committee. Now the RCMP is looking into it.

What we are talking about is redacted information. Every previous prime minister had redacted documents tabled at some point. What is being called for is the blurring of judicial independence, and that has been established through the RCMP's concerns and the Auditor General's concerns.

Does the hon. member not recognize those institutions as strong and healthy? Can she address their concerns? Why does she think—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:35 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Kelowna—Lake Country.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, in the member's question, he referred to SDTC as being an arm's-length organization, and it was, in fact, not arm's-length. The board members were appointed through the minister. They were government appointments.

We know how SDTC operated. Senior government officials sat in on its meetings. They were privy to the decisions happening at the board level. They were there observing everything that was going on at the board level. They were not a completely arm's-length organization.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:35 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, I agree that we need to get to the bottom of what was an egregious violation of basic conflict of interest guidelines. This has been cleaned up now in transferring SDTC operations to the National Research Council.

In a previous speech, I was able to go over the details, so I will try to do this very quickly. I want to talk about what we call “green funds”. Being the leader of the Green Party, spelled with a capital G, I worry about the small-g use of the term. Quite a lot of this money was for technology that benefited some of the Sustainable Development Technology Canada projects done in conjunction with Natural Resources Canada. It included funds going to an unproven technology called carbon capture, utilization and storage, which went to Canadian Natural Resources Limited, Cenovus Energy and Suncor. Some of the large oil sands companies are part of this emerging funding of so-called green technology.

Does that make any difference to my colleague's analysis?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Madam Speaker, the Auditor General found that, with SDTC, there were 10 ineligible projects, worth approximately $58 million, that could not demonstrate an environmental benefit or development of green technology.

Herein lies the issue: The Auditor General has found 186 incidents of conflict of interest. There was funding going to projects that do not appear to follow the parameters of green technologies. That is actually part of the issue of what happened here.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Madam Speaker, it is an egregious use of funds. Just on a basic principle of responsible government, it is appalling. For someone who cares deeply about tackling the climate crisis, I find that it is doubly egregious when it means that the government is not actually tracking whether this money is making a difference.

My concern is that the Conservatives keep putting up speaker after speaker. I would like this to go to committee, so we can hold the government accountable and get to the bottom of this.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Madam Speaker, it is not often I agree with what that particular member says, but on the premise at the very beginning of her question, I do agree with how egregious this was and how funding went to projects that did not met the parameters. Therein lies the seriousness of this issue.

This was not one or two conflicts of interest, which in itself would be a serious issue. We are talking about 186 conflicts of interest that were found by the Auditor General. The Auditor General did not audit all of the contracts. This was only part of it.

This issue is so massive and so egregious. We have whistle-blowers saying that this needs to be looked at even more because, so far, what they have said has pretty much come to fruition. That is why it is so important that unredacted documents be turned over to the RCMP.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Madam Speaker, the member said that the SDTC abuse was similar to the revolving door for criminals. We have the end the revolving door act for criminals. What would the member suggest for the solution to the revolving door of this dark green money?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Madam Speaker, the revolving door act, just as a reminder for the House, was a private member's bill of mine to gain, for individuals who are incarcerated federally, mental health assessments, addiction treatment and recovery in federal penitentiaries to help with recidivism and the revolving door.

However, we absolutely have a complete lack of transparency. We have such an obvious and massive amounts of conflict of interest. The extent of this is beyond anything else we have probably seen. This is why this is very important and needs to be taken very seriously, and this is why all of the documents, unredacted, need to be forwarded. They need to be produced by the government, and they need to be forwarded so they can be properly investigated and the RCMP can do its investigative work. The House is not directing the RCMP. This is a matter of turning the documents over so that it can look to see if there are, in fact, criminal elements here.

When we look at the scope of this, when we are looking at the chair and directors of the board taking part in this, it is just absolutely beyond anything that we have seen before.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

October 7th, 2024 / 4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, right from the very beginning, since the government found out about this, we have been pushing for it. We have been pushing for accountability. We will ensure that there is accountability to the taxpayer, and there is no doubt about that.

The question I have for the member is this: The motion that we are debating, or what the Conservatives proposed, is to see this issue go to the procedures and House affairs committee. The only thing that is stopping it from going to that committee is that the Conservatives have now made the determination that they want to blackmail the rest of the members in the chamber to get the unredacted documents. They will not allow this issue to go to committee, even though that is what they wanted.

Does the member see that they are being obstructionist to their own obstructionist policies? Is there a fear factor of how they can blackmail the rest of the parliamentarians because of their attitude?