Debates of Nov. 28th, 2024

Government Business No. 43—Proceedings on Bill C‑78

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, I always say, “In life, it does not cost anything to be kind to someone.” The other expression I like to say is, “God is good all the time. All the time, God is good.”

I will say to the hon. member, the candidate who is running, and I encourage all candidates to run, had a pivotal role in my campaign in 2015 to beat the minister at the time, Julian Fantino. That is something Conservatives need to think about, and so forth.

I look at what I have delivered for the city of Vaughan: $59 million through the housing accelerator fund; the Jane Street investments; the brand new park in Thornhill; the investments in all the community centres across the city of Vaughan; and the FedDev investments in Northern Transformer. There are more coming and more to be announced in the coming weeks. The investments that grow our economy create the jobs of the future. All the auto parts suppliers in our riding depend on the electrical vehicle transition. They are transitioning and creating jobs.

That is the record I have delivered for my community, and I cannot wait. When I knock on doors, I know what the residents will say, including all the seniors who have the Canada dental care plan and that the opposition—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I am sorry. I have been trying to give the hon. member a signal to end.

I want to remind members, when they have an opportunity to ask questions, if they have other questions, they should wait until the appropriate time.

Questions and comments.

The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Madam Speaker, before asking my question, I would like to remind my Liberal colleague that he is right to be angry, but he should perhaps refrain from banging on the desk. That can be dangerous for the interpreters, for their ears, as a working condition. We do not bang on the desks.

In the Conservatives' 2021 campaign, they said they wanted to pause the GST during the holiday season. They promised voters that. Today they are voting against the measure, as if it is the worst thing in the world. I have a very practical question. The NDP pushed for this GST holiday on essentials, such as groceries and children's clothing. The Liberals are proposing half-measures and, worse, they are temporary, for only two months.

What does my colleague have to say to the small retailers and small and medium-size businesses in his riding that will have to undertake a long and expensive process to change their entire tax procedure for two months only to do it all again eight weeks later?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question, which is very important to us.

To give the hon. member an example, prepared foods are a very big item. I know my wife and all mothers and fathers in the evenings sometimes do not have enough time to cook for their kids. They will go to a supermarket to buy prepared foods. Right now, on those prepared foods, Canadians have to pay the HST in Ontario. I would like to see that revisited.

This is a temporary two-month tax break. Every little bit helps, as I say. These are issues we need to talk about, how we can continue to help hard-working Canadian families, which we have done through so many measures and which we will continue to do because we always have the backs of Canadians.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Madam Speaker, I cannot blame the Conservatives for having a little amnesia about the GST cut they proposed in 2021, because it was on everything, so somebody who treated themselves to a $25,000 watch would have saved about $1,250. That is a little different from the tax cut being proposed here, and I am wondering if the member for Vaughan—Woodbridge can pinpoint what the big difference is in what we are proposing.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, I wish to say that the focus of our government is helping hard-working Canadians and hard-working Canadian families. This is exactly what we are doing in terms of those who love to dine out and go to restaurants all over the GTA, from Vaughan to Toronto, Burlington, Oakville and Scarborough, in all those great restaurants that exist. People are going to have time to spend with their families. They are going to go out over the holidays in Ontario.

It is a full removal of the HST. This would be $1.6 billion in savings. This would be providing relief to Canadians, meeting them where they are and helping them, because every little bit helps. We know that and we understand it. It is too bad the opposition members, who ran on a similar idea and voted for this a couple years ago, are now saying, “No, we do not like lower taxes.” We like—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I am sorry. I have been trying to give the hon. member a signal again.

The hon. deputy House leader has the floor.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would ask for a couple of brief moments to report on some breaking news that came out of the public safety committee moments ago. Patrick Brown, the mayor of Brampton and former leadership contestant for the Conservative Party, has been summoned to the committee to talk about foreign interference and what he witnessed during the Conservative leadership convention. I think all members will be equally interested in hearing what—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I question what this has to do with the ongoing debate.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

There are a lot of members who start their speech with something else. I have seen it over and over again from both sides. It has not even been one minute since the member started his speech, so I want to allow the hon. member to continue. I am sure he will bring some relevance to it. He does need to make sure his speech is related to the bill.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am not one bit surprised Conservatives are not happy to hear that. We should hear some earth-shattering testimony from the mayor of Brampton in relation to foreign interference during that leadership contest.

I will bring this to the issue we are talking about right now. We are talking about removing the GST on some essential items during a time when Canadians experience, and will be experiencing, a stretch in their wallet from paying for things over the holidays.

I heard from a Conservative member, maybe 20 or 30 minutes ago, who said the only people who will benefit from this are billionaires. I am sorry, do billionaires buy car seats in the dozens? Am I missing something? Do billionaires buy diapers at Costco in bulk? What am I missing here? Only a Conservative would get up and say an initiative like this would only benefit billionaires. It is absolutely ludicrous.

What I find most troubling, and it has been highlighted several times today, is another flip-flop by the Conservatives. All we ever hear from them is “axe the tax”. They will not even axe the tax. Literally, we have a tax here that we are ready to axe, and the member for St. Albert—Edmonton does not even want to axe it. This is the hypocrisy. Not only is it hypocritical in the sense that Conservatives are always running around talking about axing the tax, but this is a tax they proposed axing in the last election, literally. Now the member from St. Albert-Edmonton and the member for Carleton, the current leader of the Conservative Party, do not want to axe it.

Let us go back to 2021 for a second because it is really important to put this into context. Erin O'Toole was the leader, and I am sure we all remember what happened. His finance critic was the member for Carleton. The member for Carleton, now the Leader of the Opposition, had made a statement about the governor of the Bank of Canada. What did Erin O'Toole do at the time? He said to the Leader of the Opposition, “You're out, and I'm putting the member for Abbotsford in your position.”

This is important context and I will get to it in a second, but I think it is safe to say there was no love lost between those two. They did not get along. Even during the 2021 election, we could almost feel the animosity between the member for Carleton and Erin O'Toole. Notwithstanding that, when Erin O'Toole made his platform announcement about getting rid of the GST for one month in December, do members know who celebrated it, reposted it, talked about it and made it an issue?

[An hon. member]

Do not say Pierre Poilievre.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would not say his name because I am not allowed to do that, but it was the Leader of the Opposition who did that. Just to put it into context, they were not exactly friends; I would argue that they did not get along. Yet the member for Carleton, the current Leader of the Opposition, liked that so much that he was willing to put aside his differences with Erin O'Toole to celebrate the fact they had brought that along.

Flash forward to now: Suddenly Conservatives do not want to axe the tax anymore. That is where we are. The Leader of the Opposition is saying this is a phony scam that will result in nothing and this is just a trick. He should talk to some of the businesses and restaurants in downtown Kingston about whether or not it will be beneficial to remove the GST from takeout and from eating in restaurants in January.

When I was younger, in my 20s, I worked in the hospitality industry in Kingston. The slowest month of the year is January, and February would probably be the next slowest. This is the time when we can genuinely impact those businesses. We are very proud of the number of restaurants we have in downtown Kingston. I am not sure if it is because we are heavily populated by all the Queen's students, but we like to think we have the most independent restaurants per capita in the country.

This will directly benefit them. This is not just about giving a break, although millions of people will benefit and will rejoice in it, not just the billionaires, as Conservatives would say. This is about helping our economy keep moving and helping those small businesses that would typically have a slower time.

I also hear Conservatives saying it is really difficult for small business owners to change the sales tax on their system for two months. Back in the 1990s, when I was doing it, we used to change it on a nightly basis based on drink prices changing every night. It is very simple to go in there and change what is currently marked at 5% to 0%. They can even do it now from a smart phone for all of the restaurants they might have throughout the country. They do not even need to physically be at the terminal to do it anymore. I am sure not everybody is using that technology, but the red herring the Conservatives are throwing around here, that it is just going to be a massive, complex thing for a restaurant or a small business to change the tax percentage from 5% to 0%, is nothing more than that: just a red herring.

It apparently was not going to be a problem when it was only going to happen for one month in December 2021, when Erin O'Toole proposed it and the member for Carleton, the leader of the opposition, celebrated it. It would have been simple to do in 2021, but I guess in 2024, the technology has reverted back to the 1950s or 1960s and it will be next to impossible to do.

Of course, I am dripping with sarcasm here because I cannot stand to listen to the hypocrisy over and over from Conservatives on this. They actively want to see something fail rather than try to support Canadians. They have a choice when we get to voting on this whether or not they want to give this tax holiday. By the way, we are not even the ones who most recently used the term “tax holiday”; it was literally in their platform in the last election.

Every Conservative sitting here agreed when they ran that for December 2021 that it was a great idea to give a tax holiday to consumers. Suddenly in 2024, it is the worst thing we could have ever thought up. It is literally the exact same program. This is just typical. It happens over and over. Conservatives continually do this. Every Conservative sitting here also ran on a platform of pricing pollution. What did they do there? They just completely flip-flopped on that. They suddenly said because they are not doing it, it is a horrible idea. That is not their job in here. Their job in here is to hold the government accountable, not make it their mission to see that absolutely everything fails to the detriment of Canadians. That is what they are doing.

Whether it is filibustering, or whether it is voting against measures for Canadians they dreamed up in the last election, they are always doing it. They just hate the idea. It is more important to them to see political failure on this side of the House rather than seeing Canadians get ahead. They are more interested in political failure and seeing the government fail than they are in helping Canadians.

I would encourage all members, including those who have been silenced by the leader of the opposition, to vote in favour of this later today. It is good legislation and it is legislation we know they like too.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member has suggested that this is going to help small business. He said he has talked to businesses and that it will genuinely impact small business. This irresponsible inflationary tax trick will not help small business. In fact, today, there was a message from a local business, and I neighbour this gentleman's riding, from Justin Martin from McCormick’s Country Store in Camden East, He is extraordinarily upset by the negative impact this is going to have on his small business.

The member gets up here and talks about how this is going to help small businesses so much, but the government has completely lost control of spending, and the Prime Minister has lost control and is trying to cling to power. How can this member of Parliament suggest he is helping small business when we get comments like this from local small businesses?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, what I said is that when I was in my twenties, I worked in the hospitality sector in Kingston, and I am fully aware of the fact that January is the slowest month. When someone is in the restaurant or bar business, they look for every opportunity to increase business in that month. That is just a fact. What people are looking for are ways to generate more business, and that is what this would produce.

The member says it is irresponsible policy. Suddenly it is irresponsible policy in November 2024, but when she ran on it in September 2021, it was revolutionary and amazing and it should be put in the Conservatives' platform. Just for the record, the member is calling a policy she ran on irresponsible.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Madam Speaker, I heard some surprising things in our colleague's speech, but I admit that I am getting used to hearing surprising things in the House. However, I would like him to explain his thoughts on two things a bit better.

First, he said that this bill has to do with essential goods and then listed a few. I saw that the goods covered under the bill include alcoholic drinks and video game consoles. I would like my colleague to explain to me how these things are essential to young families who are struggling to make ends meet. I am intrigued.

Then our colleague told us that billionaires do not buy diapers for babies. Just out of curiosity, I would like to know what they use. I am interested, because we might be able to save some money.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want the member to go back and review Hansard, review everything I said, and if he can find where I said this is only about essential goods, I will buy him a GST-free beer in December. He will not find it, because I never said that. What I said is that this would cover a whole host of goods.

As it related to diapers, I was not saying that billionaires do not buy diapers. What I was saying is that the Conservatives said this only benefits billionaires, and I was just asking if billionaires buy diapers in mass bulk and in a way that the rest of society does not. I would assume billionaires buy diapers the same way I would buy them or the member from Winnipeg would buy them. If they do not and the member knows something I do not, then I would encourage him to tell me.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Madam Speaker, the last time the Conservatives were in power, they gave a $60-billion tax break to billionaires. Worse yet, they then hired them to go on their staff, their lobbyists for Loblaws. Today, they are here trying to stop a lot of Canadians from getting a break. Would the member speak to how hypocritical it is that Conservatives speak every single day in this place about axing the tax and now today, when the time has come that we are going to see some tax relief, they are saying no.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, he is absolutely right. Conservatives always talk about axing the tax, but in reality, the only thing they want to axe are people's rebates. The only thing they want to axe are the rebates people get through the Canada carbon incentive. Everything else, they are fully prepared to keep in place, including the GST that they ran on axing when they ran on it back in 2021.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am sharing my time with the member for Simcoe North and look forward to his remarks.

What we are debating is the outcome of a desperate gimmick announced by the government a few days ago, for which, somewhere on the back of a cocktail napkin, it cobbled together some kind of desperate ploy to buy Canadians' votes. The plan originally had more components than what is going to be voted on tonight. We are down to only voting on the GST elimination for two months because the Liberals blew it with the rest of the plan they tried to hatch.

They also have a promise that is still hanging out there to give cheques to working Canadians who earn up to a net income of $150,000. This part of this half-baked scheme fell so flat that not only do Conservatives oppose that plan but the Bloc and the NDP have both publicly opposed it, arguing that it does not go to enough people, and Liberal backbenchers are unhappy, too. As the government tried to spray money as far and wide as possible, it was not far enough for the backbench.

I do not know how, but the Liberals quickly whittled their bill down to that which they thought they could get passed tonight. Based on the comments from the NDP, it sounds possible that this bill will get passed later this evening, but I will vote against it because I have no confidence in the government's agenda whatsoever, or what even passes for an agenda these days. We see a desperate government desperately clinging to power with the NDP carrying it along as it limps through the final months of its mandate. We are dealing with an entirely unserious government that is not committed to real reform that would enhance the productivity of this country and deliver the powerful paycheques that people need to afford food, housing, transportation and, indeed, a few extra luxuries or a few Christmas presents for their families this year.

When the finance minister made the announcement earlier this week, which included not just the two-month GST holiday but the other parts that the Liberals cannot even get their own backbench behind, she talked about a vibe session. What is this? It is like she is saying that all the people lined up at food banks because they cannot afford food are really giving off bad vibes and if the government could take the GST off a certain laundry list of items, then maybe it could improve the vibe of the millions of Canadians who are struggling to afford the basic necessities of life, which, by the way, are groceries and residential rents. These are GST-exempt already, so the argument has been made that people with more disposable income disproportionately benefit from this particular tax removal, and I think that is correct. That is demonstrably factual.

Canadians are struggling and will take whatever they can get in terms of making life more affordable, but what they really need is a serious government that is prepared to tackle the very serious problems that this country faces. We are not going to get there by trying to shake off the bad vibes that have come about from a government that has presided over the doubling of the cost of residential rents and the more than doubling of an average mortgage payment in Canada.

People are struggling with day-to-day life and affording the basics. It is almost like the finance minister is blaming people for their bad vibes as they are struggling with what this country has become under nine years of the Liberal government's rule.

Taking the GST off a specified list of things through this bill is not going to increase productivity. It is not going to stem the flow of investment that is leaving this country and taking thousands of jobs with it. Despite the comments from the previous speaker, it will create a burden on retailers, which may carry hundreds or thousands of items that would be affected. It may be easy for a restaurant to just take 5% off everything, but what if we go to a dollar store proprietor with a handful of employees? Do we tell them they need to re-mark some but not all of the things in their store for two months and then do it again two months from now?

I spoke to a colleague who has a proprietor of dollar stores in his riding, and he knows what this is going to cost him. It is a true burden, and it is disproportionately felt by smaller retailers. Their systems cover less than those of a large chain, which might have hundreds of stores. That is just a minor digression about how this half-baked plan the Liberals came up with earlier in the week is not a solution for the affordability crisis and productivity crisis in this country.

Canadians need much bolder steps than that. They need a government that is going to axe the tax and fix the budget. We are going to axe the carbon tax when we form government. We will create far more affordability opportunities for Canadians by eliminating the carbon tax, which affects groceries, home heating, fuel, just about anything. These are necessities. We are going to axe that tax permanently for all Canadians.

We will also have to deal with the budget. The government's deficit is a moving target that can never be predicted. We can go through each budget and each fall economic statement since the Liberals came into power and see that they have disregarded or blown through every fiscal anchor, guardrail or whatever they want to call it in the moment, including the current one. As recently as this spring, the Liberals projected a $40-billion deficit. The Parliamentary Budget Officer already had it up to $46 billion before the current announcement. The current announcement is going to take it over $50 billion. If the Liberals get through the $250 payment they want to give to Canadians this spring, for which they will need to gain the support of all parties, including their own backbench, they are going to be way over that amount with no plan whatsoever to rein it in.

We need to get Canadians back to receiving the services they need from the government. It needs to get serious about national defence and about public safety. These things will require enormous investment from the government, but we have only seen the bloat of bureaucracy without an improvement to service. We see chaos in department after department, such as Immigration, Service Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency.

With that, I will yield the floor.

The House resumed from April 18 consideration of the motion that Bill C-380, An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 (plastic manufactured items), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, here we are again with private members' hour, which there are very few of nowadays because of what is taking place. I will get to that, but I want to emphasize that this particular private member's bill takes a step backward when it comes to the environment.

All political parties, with the exception of the Conservative Party, recognize that our environment matters. Canadians are concerned about our environment, contrary to what the Conservatives might believe. However, interestingly, this is not the first time we have a private member's bill that would not do very much for the environment.

When we look at the Conservative Party's approach to the environment, the highlight, as the member opposite just made reference to, is, as he said, to axe the tax. However, the theme behind axing the tax is to attack the price on pollution, and it is a common thing the Conservatives say inside the chamber. There is a reason they do that. Members may recall that, last week, it made national news that Conservative MPs were complaining and providing comment in regard to their “freedom leader no more”, as we found out that the leader of the Conservative Party not only watches very closely what his MPs are saying and doing, but also rewards good behaviour and punishes bad behaviour.

I say that because the member opposite just spoke about axing the tax, which is one of their slogans. What do the Conservatives have to say about slogans? I will quote directly from a news article that made headlines yesterday. Here is what Conservative MPs had to say: “If the leader invents a new slogan, ‘we know we'll have to use it’”. Reading further down in the story, it says, again coming from Conservatives, “‘If you repeat the slogans, you get rewarded,’ said a Conservative source. ‘You are celebrated in front of the entire caucus for being a good cheerleader.’”

If one is in the Conservative caucus, one gets celebrated for repeating the leader of the Conservative Party's slogans. That is why we often hear them saying “axe the tax” and the other slogans, the bumper stickers.

[An hon. member]

It's embarrassing.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, it is embarrassing; my colleague is right.

Now we have this private member's bill. Anyone who follows Parliament would understand that we do not get to debate private members' bills that often. That is because the leader of the Conservative Party is in essence holding the House of Commons hostage. It is unfortunate, even though I do not think that this particular private member's bill is that great. I believe the member might be trying to get a gold star from his leader, because what he is hoping for is that we allow and encourage plastic use in Canada.

I remember the days when I was a member of the Manitoba legislature. The thought at the time was that we encourage people to use fewer plastic bags. We tried to amplify that by talking about how long it takes a plastic bag to disintegrate. Members would be amazed by how long it takes. We are talking many years. The thought was that we should bring in private member's legislation to deal with it, to ban the use of plastic bags, as there are alternatives. I believe I even had support from some Progressive Conservatives.

There is a huge difference there: Members should not be confused by the current Conservative Reform Party we see opposite. There are Progressive Conservatives in the Conservative caucus today, just not very many of them. It is the progressive-minded ones who are designated to go to the back or leave caucus. However, there are still ideas there that are tangible and will make a difference.

We could google plastic bags and the nuisance and damage they cause to the environment. One of the pictures that come to mind right away is plastic bags in trees that stay there endlessly. When the wind picks up, they get carried into the trees and stay there for a long time. These are the types of things that I believe a vast majority of Canadians are very much sympathetic to. What can we do as a population to improve our economy and our environment?

When we watch some of the nature shows, especially anything dealing with water, we see how plastics are harming our environment in many different ways. I made reference to plastic bags in trees. Do members remember the old plastic rings that would hold a case of pop together? We see fish that have been strangled by this plastic item. If we look at storms that come in from the coast, especially in some countries, we see literally hundreds of yards of plastic being washed ashore. If we look at the type of plastic we see when the water recedes, it is a very serious issue, as is the amount of plastic waste we see when we drive out to rural communities.

We see different levels of government as well as citizens trying to contribute to cleaning it all up through recycling programs. There are initiatives we can all take, including looking at ways we can ban certain single-use plastics. There is so much potential in what we can introduce, and I suspect a vast majority of Canadians would support it. However, I do not know to what degree we would get wide support for legislation that takes away from the value of protecting our environment from plastics. It seems to me that this is what this legislation is advocating for, which is consistent with what we see from the Conservative Party, as I said when I started to talk about the price on pollution.

There was a time when individuals like Erin O'Toole and other Progressive Conservatives saw the value in things like a price on pollution and looking at ways to deal with single-use plastics. That is no more under this particular Conservative Reform Party leader. Instead, we see the far right taking control of the leader of the Conservative Party's office, at a substantial cost to good public policy.

We have seen examples of that even today as we talk about the Liberals and the New Democrats wanting to give a GST tax holiday to Canadians on many products. We have the New Democrats and the Liberals saying yes to it, but the Conservatives, who said yes during the last election, are saying no today. It is because of the far-right attitude within the Conservative Party. It is more concerned with Conservative self-interest than about—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member is short on time.

Is the House ready for the question?