Debates of Nov. 18th, 2025

Bail and Sentencing Reform Act

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate having the time to talk about Bill C-14, the bail and sentencing bill the government has proposed to fix all the Liberal problems from over the last 10 years, supposedly.

I am going to ask Canadians a question: Are they confident that the same Liberals who broke our justice system are actually going to fix our justice system? As Conservatives, we are asking that exact question. Here is a government that has been in power for 10 years, despite it calling itself new. Now, the members are pretending they want to fix the problem. Maybe some of them actually want to fix the problem, but again, this is a problem they created.

Problems of rampant crime, drug use and overdoses due to their soft-on-crime and safe supply ideology are not just figments of our imagination, as many Canadians are realizing the hard way. These statistics are from “British Columbia Crime Trends, 2014 - 2023”: In 2014, the total of violent offences was 53,209. In 2023, that number went to 86,205 offences. It is not just us talking about it. These effects are real.

This is partly due to the Liberals' Bill C-75 and the principle of restraint in the bill, which ensures release at the earliest opportunity is favoured over detention. It requires reasonable bail conditions. This has really gone across the justice system across the nation. Whether it is prosecutors or the judiciary, they are following the direction of the government, and it has actually been ruinous for our country.

Across British Columbia, violent crime has increased almost 50%, while the total number of sexual assaults has gone up over 95%. These are incredible numbers. Extortion has shot up a staggering 481% across the province of B.C. The consequences of Liberal policies are real, and people are feeling that, as my colleague from Saskatchewan just alluded to. Since 2015 in Canada, violent crime is up 55%; firearms crime is up 130%; extortion has skyrocketed by 330% across Canada; sexual assaults are up 76%; and homicides are up 29%. These are stats, and sometimes numbers do not really deal with the real story behind those numbers.

I am going to start with some communities in my riding, and I will start with my birthplace, Dawson Creek. Recently, The Fifth Estate did a story about my birthplace, where I was born and lived until the age of five. My mom homesteaded in Dawson Creek. They were in Dawson Creek for a long time. The headline from CBC reads, “Behind the fear: The unsolved killings in Dawson Creek, B.C.” Anybody who thinks of the name Dawson Creek thinks of a very peaceful town, a farmer town, and I would like to think it still is.

This quote is from the story:

Just how “crazy” can be found in the data. The town’s homicide rate is 14 times the national average, according to Statistics Canada. Overdoses in town increased five-fold from 2016 until 2023.

In this environment, safety in town appears elusive for criminals and regular townsfolk alike. Residents complain criminals are arrested, but rarely spend much time in jail. People vanish without a trace. The lives of addicts crumble, with some becoming armed agents of a desperate chaos. No one seems able to stop any of it.

The Liberals formed government in 2016, and this is what we have after 10 years of Liberal rule.

I will go to the next community we will talk about today, which is Fort Nelson. Fort Nelson is about four hours north of my hometown of Fort St. John. I spoke with a frustrated local police officer just last year. He said that 15 people are responsible for 90% of the calls, and that really speaks to the recidivism of criminals who are being brought in and released without being incarcerated.

This is an article titled “Fort Nelson ‘tow truck war’ continues with another arson investigation”, from September 29. It states:

According to police, several vehicles were engulfed in flames when the fire department arrived at the scene.

They said On-It Towing has been the victim of many suspicious fires in the past 16 months, adding evidence at the scene points to each fire being intentionally started.

In case members did not know, Ben Wall is the owner of that particular towing company. I actually did a video with him this summer highlighting his plight because police officers basically know who it is, but they cannot keep the ones who are doing it behind bars.

I texted him this morning to ask about the total damage caused by these repeat criminals. Ben said, this morning, “I don't have an accurate calculation, but it's somewhere between $1.5 million and $2 million; 10 separate arsons and two vandalisms where equipment or property was damaged. Amazingly, no real theft that we are aware of in all of this. That dollar value would be based on insurance payouts. We have lost somewhere between $200,000 and $400,000 in procurement costs.” That is the disparity between what the insurance is paying him and what the value of the piece of equipment is. He also referred to new equipment, set-up costs, lost revenue, administrative costs and so on. Members should listen to this last line, which is very important: “nothing to say of how life-destroying this has been.”

I know that Mr. Wall has felt threatened, and his family has felt threatened in that community. Seemingly, criminals are getting away with what they are doing, with no end in sight.

This is from Fort St. John, my hometown, where I live today. This is an article from March 19, titled “Wanted man with long criminal history arrested by Fort St. John RCMP”. It states:

Despite being charged over 20 times in the past for breaching his release conditions, a judge once again let Calliou out on bail. Calliou was bound by a court-imposed curfew condition requiring him to reside in Prince George. A warrant was then issued for his arrest after police said...Calliou was known to be breaching the condition and was believed to be in the Peace Region.

It is another really sad example of recidivism in my riding alone.

I will finish with these two stories. I do not have an article to quote, but I heard it from the person directly. Cori Ramsay was recently in Ottawa, just two weeks ago, and she is a Prince George city councillor. She said she was on a ride-along with the local RCMP, and they watched somebody trying to break into the local Value Village. The person was arrested and brought to jail. That person was released within one and a half hours, and on the same ride-along that very night, within four hours, the police had rearrested the person for another crime. It is bad enough for Canadians to hear the statistics, but they are hearing it from real-life stories. That is one story of thousands in our communities that are just being allowed to happen because of such bills as Bill C-75 and the Liberal government's poor past policies.

I have another story from Prince George. The firefighters were just here in Ottawa, as members know. The Prince George firefighters have told me many stories of some of the challenges of downtown Prince George. I asked them, “How much time is actually spent fighting fires?” They said, “Well, 90% of our time is spent dealing with overdoses and fires started by those same people addicted to drugs.” Again, this is because of Liberal soft-on-crime policies and safe supply. Those are the real effects that these policies are having in our communities, and they have built up over 10 years. Now the Liberals are pretending, “Hey, folks, we are new”, even though they are not, and we know they are not.

As I started off with when I first began to speak, I ask Canadians if they are confident that these same Liberals who broke our justice system are actually going to fix our justice system. We have just laid out the case that they are not.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a report from this summer says that Prince George saw a significant drop in crime severity, down 13.87%, the lowest point since 2020. I will note that Prince George, as well as Saskatchewan, is actually policed by the RCMP. The Leader of the Opposition has referred to the RCMP as “despicable”.

Will the member opposite disavow those comments from his leader and stand up for the men and women who are keeping his community safe?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that people, after having so many crimes committed on their private properties, are just not calling anymore. They realize that criminals are not getting incarcerated for what they are doing and there is a revolving door.

Our local RCMP have been awesome. We have worked with them. Whether it is Prince George, Fort Nelson, Fort St. John or Dawson Creek, they have been excellent. They are doing their best to bring justice back to our streets despite the Liberal government's legislation.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague gave an excellent speech. I have been here for 10 years, and the Liberals have been saying they are going to address criminal justice from the beginning. First, they had Bill C-75, and the police said that it was awful and allows repeat offenders out on the streets. Then they had Bill C-5, which took away mandatory minimums and put house arrest in place. That made things even worse. They saw crime skyrocketing, and under Arif Virani, when he was the minister of justice, they tried again at bail reform.

I would ask the member the same question he is asking Canadians: Is he confident that Bill C-14 is going to fix the problem the Liberals have been talking about fixing for 10 years?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as I said when we started, whether Bill C-75, Bill C-5 or anything we can name, all these pieces of legislation are still on the books, and all of a sudden, we are supposed to believe that Bill C-14 is going to fix all the problems. That is what the Liberals are telling Canadians.

We know it is not true and it is not going to happen. That is the premise of the question I asked in my speech today. I just hope Canadians are seeing through what the Liberals are trying to do in trying to erase history. I think Canadians are living with the effects of crime on their streets, and that is not going to be erased any time soon.

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague, who is also from B.C., omitted the good news that the crime severity index in our province has decreased by 11% year over year, according to Stats Canada.

At the heart of the Conservatives' complaints about this matter is the fact that Canadians fundamentally chose our party to form government. Are Canadians confident that the government will reduce crime? That is the member's question. Evidently, based on the election seven months ago, the answer to that question is yes.

If Conservatives were serious about the question of confidence, then they would not be playing games in this chamber on confidence motions; their House leader would not be hiding behind those curtains, pretending his voting app is not working; and Conservative MPs would not be making flimsy excuses for why they do not show up to vote non-confidence in the government.

At the end of the day, Conservative members are asking whether Canadians have confidence in the government. The real question is whether Conservatives are prepared to accept the confidence Canadians have expressed in the government, our vision for the future and our efforts to resolve these challenges.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that ought to be the record for the longest question in the history of this place.

Liberals are great at talking. I think you are perfect evidence that Liberals can talk a lot. We heard about that last election, that there was a lot of talk. You were not given a mandate necessarily. You have a minority government; you did not get a majority, so there is something there. Canadians are not willing to trust you as a majority government.

I will go back to the simple stats from British Columbia, since you quoted them. For total offences in 2014, there were 53,209. In 2023, there were 86,205. The stats speak for themselves.

[The Deputy Speaker, Tom Kmiec]

Before I return to questions and comments, I would just remind the member not to use “you”. The Speaker is not participating in debate.

Questions and comments, the member for Regina—Lewvan.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comment from the random Liberal on the far left over there about the RCMP and the “despicable” comment. Does he know the budget that he just voted for cut $98 million from the RCMP budget?

I represent Depot, and I talked to the commanding officer. The Liberal government cut $98 million from the RCMP budget, and it asked the RCMP to hire 1,000 new recruits with $0 in the budget. The RCMP is now short $220 million from the Liberal government. That is despicable.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Saskatchewan points to the fact that Liberals say one thing during elections and do another when they are actually in government. This is just further proof of that.

The Liberals are cutting Veterans Affairs and many other things Canadians rely on. I hope Canadians look at this debate and see who is telling the truth about who is really going to cut crime. The Liberals have had a chance for 10 years, and they simply have not gotten it done.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. In the previous exchange, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan referred to a member in the House as a “random Liberal” from the back. I do not think it is appropriate to be referring to any member in any kind of way. It was clearly meant to be done in a demeaning way. Perhaps the member has had an opportunity to reflect on that and would like to stand up and apologize for referring to any member in the House in any way other than the honourable manner in which we are all treated.

[The Deputy Speaker, Tom Kmiec]

I thank the chief government whip. It is a good reminder to members to be careful with the words they use. There are a lot of new members in the House, and the rules are clear not to impugn the intent or motive of any members. I thank the chief government whip for the reminder.

The hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies is rising on a point of order.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I know we need to keep going with the debate but, with regard to the member who just brought up that previous point of order, we have been talking about pretty serious issues, about crime and victims and all the rest. Their group has been giggling and laughing the whole way through. I find it a little rich that he is going to somehow challenge our member for not doing something properly when he has been completely disrespecting this place and the debate that is occurring today.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, for the record, I was sitting in the lobby and I witnessed this on the TV screen. I came in here in order to bring it to your attention. To say that I have been sitting here giggling about this is absolutely incorrect and false. If I could use another word to describe that, I would, but I cannot in this place.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on the same point of order, I was here witnessing the debate, so I can actually testify that the Secretary of State for Combatting Crime was one of the ones talking and giggling while the members were in debate. I just wanted to add that information.

[The Deputy Speaker, Tom Kmiec]

I am going to take all of what the members have said, and I am going to draw the members' attention to the Standing Orders. Standing Order 16, on decorum, is a great standing order that all members should remember. They are all useful rules that members should remember when speaking to each other and about each other in the House as well.

I am going to draw the attention of the House to Standing Order 18 specifically. A couple of lines into it, it says, “nor use offensive words against either House, or against any Member thereof. No Member may reflect upon any vote of the House, except for the purpose of moving that such vote be rescinded.”

The heading is “Disrespectful or offensive language. Reflection on a vote.”

I know that there was a constituency week last week, so many members have now returned. Sometimes we forget riding names. We also forget some of the Standing Orders.

As a good reminder, do not make comments about other members that are insulting or are meant to be insulting. Also, do not try to educe the motive behind what a member is saying. Those are all rules that we should be reminded of.

I also want to remind members of Standing Order 16(2), not to cross between the Speaker and the member who is speaking.

With that said, I consider the matter closed.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Oxford.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is always an honour to be in the chamber to rise on an issue that is affecting Canadians from coast to coast to coast. I have spoken about this issue many times. I brought forward the jail not bail bill to help crack down on repeat violent offenders.

We held town halls right across our beautiful country, in Surrey, Winnipeg, St. Thomas, Vaughan and Peel. Canadians are very concerned. They are very scared of what is going on in their communities. The town halls were packed with hundreds of concerned residents who showed up without any political affiliation. For many of them, it was the first time they had gone to a town hall meeting. They expressed deep concern about public safety.

I was in Vaughan recently with my hon. friend, the member for King—Vaughan. We met with victims, business owners, young students and other Canadians. They said they do not recognize the country they knew and still love today. They are concerned about the level of crime that is happening in their community, as well as the severity of the crime. The shift that is happening in our system now, whether it is in a big city or a rural community like Oxford, is not just about an increase in crime but about the type of crime. There are shootings in broad daylight, violent home invasions and carjackings. This is stuff we have never seen before at this level in our country.

The government often talks about charter rights, but we are seeing it protecting the charter rights of criminals. I talk to Canadians every day, and they are saying that criminals are getting a free pass and a free ride. Liberal policies on crime are easy on criminals and tough on Canadians. In my riding of Oxford, a victim in Beachville wrote to me and said it feels like she is the one on house arrest, while her attacker is walking free around the community. She has to change her behaviour to avoid seeing him at a public library, a museum or a grocery store. The criminals are not worried about anything. That is the type of system the Liberals have created.

Conservatives have always asked, “What about the charter rights of law-abiding Canadians who follow the rules and are not criminals?” What about the charter rights of that 71-year-old grandma who went to buy groceries? All she wanted to do was go to the store, pick up some food, come home, make a nice meal and enjoy time with her family. She was brutally stabbed to death in a parking lot. She had done absolutely nothing wrong. What about the charter rights of Bailey McCourt or Cait Alexander, or any of the other victims going through these troubling times?

Liberal policies have caused a massive shift. Instead of them being about public safety and keeping Canadians safe, they have shifted toward empowering the criminals. There is no deterrence in our system right now. Criminals know how to game the system, and they are gaming it every single day. There is no fear of consequences. The law is supposed to deter people from committing crime, but when soft-on-crime, catch-and-release legislation like Bill C-75 and Bill C-5 is brought in, these are the problems that come from it.

This did not happen overnight. This is a direct result of the policies the Liberals brought forward, and now we are living with this nightmare. The headlines we are seeing are like something from a Hollywood movie. Just last night, in Abbotsford, there was another extortion call. We never had an extortion problem in our country. When I was in Surrey, doing my jail not bail town hall, I met with residents who shared stories of their homes being shot at. This one gentleman said a bullet flew over his daughter's bed. If she had been standing up or walking around, she could have been hit.

The Prime Minister was in B.C. a few days ago. He was taking a nice stroll on the beach, looking at the water and admiring what was going on. Not too far away, there was a town hall on extortion. Families and victims were coming together to share their concerns. In all of the press conferences the Prime Minister did while he was in B.C. and at all of the tour stops he did, buying ice cream and living the good life, not once did he speak about extortion. I would think that a prime minister who cared about public safety would talk about one of the biggest crises happening in that community, but he did not. These people's words meant absolutely nothing to him.

This is about action. For seven months, the Liberals delayed, denied and obstructed. For years, we talked about bringing forward legislation and pushed them to raise these issues, and we were ignored. They simply ignored our calls to take action. I have said this before and I will say it again: I am glad they have finally admitted that we have a problem. That was step number one. With any problem, if we do not accept that there is a problem, which they did for four years, the problem continues. I am happy that they are finally acknowledging, through political pressure, that we have a problem.

The piece of legislation the Liberals have brought forward, as I have said before and will say again, is trying to treat a gunshot wound with a band-aid. This is a band-aid solution that would stop some of the bleeding, but it would not heal the wounds or the problems we see in today's society. It is a step in the right direction for sure, but it does not go far enough. It would not stop the crime wave we are seeing in our communities.

I brought forward the jail not bail act, which would go a lot further than Bill C-14. It would repeal the Liberals' principle of restraint that allows repeat violent offenders to be released at the earliest opportunity and on the least restrictive conditions, which justices of the peace are constantly quoting as they release these criminals. The Liberals said that, yes, there is a problem with the principle of restraint, and they were going to tinker around with it and make some changes, but it still exists.

The Conservatives believe in making sure that public safety is a primary consideration. The Liberals talk about law enforcement. They make these big announcements, like hiring 1,000 new RCMP personnel. They have been saying that for years. They are not hiring anybody. The Minister of Public Safety just said it is not his job to hire.

The Liberals are ignoring the will of Canadians. They are ignoring that their actions are causing the problems we are facing today. That is why we brought forward legislation in the House to stop extortion. They voted against it. We brought forward legislation to stop these violent carjackings and auto thefts happening in the community. They voted against it. We brought forward a motion to fast-track the jail not bail act, which has support right across our country. They blocked it. They have been standing in the way of keeping our communities safe.

Conservatives are united. We will continue to raise these issues. We will come back to a Canada where anyone from anywhere can live on a safe street, raise their families, enjoy a stroll in the park and have coffee with their friends without the café being shot at. We will have a life where everyone feels safe, secure and protected. The Liberals cannot do it. We will.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to recognize the loss of Olga Crombie in my community. She was a devoted wife, mother and pillar of her family, known for her fierce love, strength and selflessness. Her legacy will live on through her family. I want to give a special mention to her son, Steve.

I appreciate the member's remarks. Public safety can be complex, especially around pretrial detention. When it comes to repeat violent offenders, I think there is agreement in this House. We should know, though, that of those who are in pretrial detention, over 70% across this country are waiting for trial, and they are innocent until proven guilty. The evidence is that those who are subject to pretrial detention in the aggregate are more likely to recidivate when the case is closed.

Could the member speak to the complexities of pretrial detention and recidivism?

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is a presumption of innocence in our country. That is a fundamental principle that we will defend all the way. The people we are targeting are the repeat violent offenders who have made this a business, who are part of organized crime and who are constantly terrorizing our communities.

The statistics do not lie. In Kelowna, the RCMP and the mayor said the same 15 people were responsible for almost 1,500 crimes. They are not innocent people. They were found guilty of committing those crimes. The same 40 people in Vancouver committed 6,000 crimes.

We are targeting the small number of people who repeatedly and constantly attack our communities. That is who we are going after with this bill.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for drafting the jail not bail act.

Can the member please describe the substantial difference between the approaches in the jail not bail act and Bill C-14 when it comes to repeat violent criminals, and how we create a presumption of detention in his bill?

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I could spend all day discussing the differences between our bills. The Liberals have kept the principle of restraint intact in their legislation. We would repeal it and add the principle of public safety as a primary consideration. We would make changes to the conditions for those being released. We would make changes to the legal test to make it tougher for repeat violent offenders to get bail. We would make it mandatory for judges to look at a person's criminal history.

We would make all of these changes to toughen our system so that repeat violent offenders stay behind bars, where they belong.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting that the member focused some attention on extortion. I understand the importance of that particular issue. I have had many discussions on it. The Prime Minister has raised the issue. Many members of the Liberal caucus have discussed the issue.

One of the issues that Bill C-14 deals with is extortion. We hear the Conservatives talk a lot about extortion. They have a chance to do something about it that will make a difference by allowing this bill to pass. Will he commit to allowing this bill on bail reform to pass before the end of this year?

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, all the member said was that they talk and talk. The Prime Minister has talked about it. He has talked about it. They have had discussions about this and discussions about that. Talking is all they have been doing for the last 10 years.

Our deputy leader brought Bill C-381 to the floor of Parliament last year. What did the Liberals do? They voted against it. They had an opportunity to stand up for their residents, but they did not.

Winnipeg has one of the highest crime rates in the country, yet the member is constantly defending the failed Liberal policies that put his community at risk every single day. When we had the town hall in his community, we had folks from all walks of life. Even Liberals showed up. Liberal members said they were not sure what was going on with their own party, they needed change now and they supported the jail not bail act.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member does not understand the issues relating to Winnipeg. If he understood them, he would know that the City of Winnipeg has taken action, and so has the province in passing legislation.

Will he recognize that it takes more than just the federal government, and that he should likewise be encouraging the provinces and cities to take action?

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that all levels of government have to work together. The problem with the Liberal members is they do not want to take responsibility for fixing in the chamber what they have control over. The Criminal Code is a federal responsibility. The RCMP is a federal responsibility. The CBSA is a federal responsibility.

Instead of pointing fingers at everybody else, maybe they should look at themselves in the mirror and take some responsibility for their own actions.